I agree 100%.
Dishwashers losing popularity in US Homes???
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I told you, quiet dishwashers are a scam. They use puny pumps and tiny sprays. They're weak.
I use ours on a day-to-day basis, usually prefer to hand wash pots and pans, and items I don't want etched. It does an admiral job on flatware, and gets dishes clean without problems. I don't think I'd want to do all my dishes every day by hand... I also disagree with the standard line that you use substantially more water washing dishes by hand. We grew up with a conservative dad who harped about every light, every drop of water, so I learned to be careful with resources. If you simply turn the hot water on and let it run until you've finished with the dishes, then yes, you do use way more...
vacerator
Well-known member
A neighbor never hand washes a dish! Of course now she is 81, so it took decades before she had the luxury.
I love automatic dishwashers.
I've loved them since 1962 when I met my first dishwashers in the building where we lived.
I use my dishwasher all the time; I believe all the data that says that dishwashers (even the old ones) are more energy and water efficient, sanitary and convenient than doing them by hand unless one happens to be extremely efficient and obeys all the Serve Safe rules.
This is why I have a small collection of vintage dishwashers because I think current selections are ridiculously expensive, pre-crippled by built-in obsolescence and take too f**king long to do the job. Also they're boring and monotonous, no color, stainless steel exteriors, monochromatic interiors (you may laugh at that but visual appeal still has importance to folks like me). The only good thing I can say about them is that they are unbelievably quiet. I am 68 years old and I will likely have KitchenAid and Maytag machines in my kitchen till they remove me from my house, feet first, if I'm lucky.
My vintage dishwashers not only do a great job on my tableware, but they can become the best damn proof-boxes for baking artisan and other yeast products because of their ability to create a humid, not-too-warm sealed environment for home bakers. And when you see that bitch Martha talking about it on any of her venues, she got that from me.
I question the claims of their efficiency because, even if they're ridiculously stingy with water, a cycle that takes two hours or more cannot be energy efficient in my opinion.
I've loved them since 1962 when I met my first dishwashers in the building where we lived.
I use my dishwasher all the time; I believe all the data that says that dishwashers (even the old ones) are more energy and water efficient, sanitary and convenient than doing them by hand unless one happens to be extremely efficient and obeys all the Serve Safe rules.
This is why I have a small collection of vintage dishwashers because I think current selections are ridiculously expensive, pre-crippled by built-in obsolescence and take too f**king long to do the job. Also they're boring and monotonous, no color, stainless steel exteriors, monochromatic interiors (you may laugh at that but visual appeal still has importance to folks like me). The only good thing I can say about them is that they are unbelievably quiet. I am 68 years old and I will likely have KitchenAid and Maytag machines in my kitchen till they remove me from my house, feet first, if I'm lucky.
My vintage dishwashers not only do a great job on my tableware, but they can become the best damn proof-boxes for baking artisan and other yeast products because of their ability to create a humid, not-too-warm sealed environment for home bakers. And when you see that bitch Martha talking about it on any of her venues, she got that from me.
I question the claims of their efficiency because, even if they're ridiculously stingy with water, a cycle that takes two hours or more cannot be energy efficient in my opinion.
phillymatt53
Well-known member
My mother used to carry on endlessly about things like water usage, electrical use, and heater thermostat settings, and having the fridge door open for more than a few seconds.
She was a good mom, taught us valuable lessons and values, however that obsession with the things I just mentioned is just that.... Obsessive behavior.
Mind you, I'm not against being frugal, or being aware of how much things cost, but I don't obsess over and make myself nuts over trivial, petty stuff.
I do however apply my talents and "perfectionism" to things when need be, and only if they're required in order to maintain important operation, and reliability, mainly in electronics.
For instance, I hand-craft and custom design audio products, one-of-a-kind pieces.
I tend to keep my designs relatively simple, traditional looking, yet with elevated performance that rivals or exceeds mass-produced expensive products, and confirm such performance through extensive and careful testing.
At times, I also "modify" those mass-produced products to compensate for any cost-cutting or shortcuts the manufacturer has done to them.
Below is a high quality level stereo amplifier that I finished a few years ago that produces stunning performance with plenty of power reserves when needed.
Between the internals, I also love doing the woodwork of the cabinetry.
It's actually a relaxing sort of "hobby" that keeps me busy in retirement.
Well which ones would they be losing popularity in?
Not mine, I run lower rack only loads and often buy dishwasher soap more often than I do laundry soap…
— Dave
Not mine, I run lower rack only loads and often buy dishwasher soap more often than I do laundry soap…
— Dave
vacerator
Well-known member
Our folks were also depression kids. Penny pinchers.
Perhaps the avoidance of dishwashers is related to a trend in "downsizing" of kitchenwares such that people don't have enough dishware for once-a-day machine washing. Or something ridiculous like that.
I recall long-time family friends of whom the wife made a remark to mom upon their retirement that "all you need is two plates, two glasses, two sets of flatware."
I recall long-time family friends of whom the wife made a remark to mom upon their retirement that "all you need is two plates, two glasses, two sets of flatware."
That, plus more younger people not getting married and living a single life without children.
panasonicvac
Well-known member
I was just thinking about this the other day before I saw the thread. I would have a harder time buying a brand new dishwasher. Not only I've seen some unimpressive results but also hearing quite a bit of problems the new machines have been getting. Despite that, I still don't think I could live in a home without one. I definitely don't love doing dishes as much as laundry, I'm just a person that would rather do a quick few seconds of rinsing dishes out and loading them in the dishwasher that gets used about twice a week or so. But whenever I do run it, I'd rather do it at night so that the next day when I unload, the dishes would already be dry to put away. No need to spend the extra time scrubbing and drying by hand. And I don't care how long the cycles go for or how much water they use just as long as they get them clean and last for quite a while. It just seems that my options nowadays are limited, I actually may as well look into the used market for a nice old one especially at killer deals.
And more expensive.
The Whirlpool Power Clean Filter Module was not only the best cleaning and most energy efficient dishwasher ever created, but it was also amongst the cheapest often being available in the low hundreds toward the last decade of production. A low end electronic power clean cost the same as a high end dura wash.
And a heck of a lot cheaper than the pretend-to-clean tall tubs they were pushing:
If Whirlpool ditched the electronic control and failure prone membrane that price would have dipped even lower in comparison to the TOL dura wash. An absolute BOL Power Clean with no rinse aid dispenser, open detergent cup, long timed main wash, vinyl coated racks, single dial and heated dry rocker switch would have been competing with GE price wise and still out-cleaned the majority of machines ever made.
Which takes me to the point. There is no profit in that which does its job to perfection. The idea is offering goods that keep looking better, that keep feeling better, that offer a solution to an imagined or created problem but never actually addresses original intent head on in full. Leave the customer feel partially disappointed so they keep coming back for that which looks ever more satisfying but will never fulfill the original need. It is all by design to keep people buying and spending.
The Whirlpool Power Clean Filter Module is so perfected it is a timeless classic. There is little that could make it any better With time the Power Clean would only get cheaper. And with a slight seal and motor bearing improvement coupled with a metal timer a Power Clean could last 30 years.
phillymatt53
Well-known member
Because their married to their cellphones and virtual reality.
phillymatt53
Well-known member
And as I've always believed, Superficiality is a human trait and a weakness as well.
It's been drummed into society's heads for ages.
Pretty and sexy sells, boring doesn't.
Because their married to their cellphones and virtual reality.
A little bit of that exists but there's sort of a gender war going on at the moment. A lot of men are fed up with the current crop of selfish demanding females and don't want to get shafted in a divorce (or with child support) so they're following the MGTOW trend. As far as having kids, most are barely getting by financially with high rent, high mortages and the high cost of living due to inflation. Affording kids is out of the question.
phillymatt53
Well-known member
I'll agree to that!
You can blame it on the conditioning and manipulation of society by the elites.
They like to be disruptive and watch the masses struggle.
It gives them something to talk about over drinks and their fabulous dinner parties.
I think many people feel the same way on this. The issue wasn't the old dishwashers used 13.5 gallons of water, it was that many of them simply did not clean one reason or another, forcing pre-rinsing. Pre-rinsing is what wastes water and energy. To the point that whether or not a dishwasher uses 1.5 gallons or 13.5 gallons of water becomes irrelevant.
That changed with the Power Clean Filter Module, various Maytag Jet-Cleans and latter model Kitchen-Aids. These machines are what saved monumental amounts of water and energy because they let the user load without any pre-rinsing and little pre-treating and limited pre-scrubbing.
All was well with these 3 machines, until energy regs targeted the symptoms and not the actual problem. Energy regs instead of looking at performance and forcing improvements to existing designs like GE adding a fine filter to its BOL machines, energy regulations targeted water usage which essentially required all dishwashers to be engineered with shallow sumps, small pumps, complex electronics and low volume water distribution. This absolutely wrecked any ability to engineer realistic soil removal, soil handling, and soil flush away. Further the lack of water itself hinders grease / muck carry away and impairs detergent rinsing.
The reduced cleaning performance now forces various levels of pre-rinsing in all new dishwashers completely doing away with any water and energy savings that once existed.
phillymatt53
Well-known member
It take a few moments for me to pre-rinse some stuck-on bits from the dishes.
I use the hot water for that, and when I start the DW, it get its hot water faster, meaning less heating element time.
I use the hot water for that, and when I start the DW, it get its hot water faster, meaning less heating element time.
Personally I think the education system plays a massive role in this and society's ills in general. Public education is based on two very antiquated dogmas: 1) A one size fits all standard. 2) reward and punishment based motivational compliance. Worsened by the fact no child has the option of opting out or changing schools that hold a different philosophy.
Nature is very different however. Every kid matures at a different rate, and girls especially on average mature two years faster than boys. Maturity dictates success or failure wherever the bar is set. The end result is that girls are as a whole are predominantly rewarded for their maturity, while boys as a whole are predominantly punished for their immaturity. Perpetual rewarding of easily accomplished expectations leads to an elevated sense of self worth, while perpetually punishing expectations without the learned skills or maturity to execute them successfully leads to low self esteem, depression, anger, defiance and resentment.
The outcome these two misguided dogmas has documented evidence everywhere. The majority of bad grades, suspensions, punitive measures, special education services, ect in schools are boys. The incarceration rates, life expectancy, mental illness statistics, poor social views, ect are worse for men.
This does not mean boy are inferior to girls, rather that boys hit their cognitive maturity two years latter and nothing more or less than that. And that schools are punishing human nature at no fault of their own.
Children are very innocent minds. They can not comprehend that the entire system is nothing more than a random bet at quantifying human behavior based on a man who rigged rat studies to say what ever he wanted them to say so he could come to terms with his own unhappy upbringing. So children and latter adults come up with the conclusion that there is a conspiracy, an agenda deliberately targeting boys. The end results MGTOW, MRA, civil war movements, ect which appeal to and vindicate the injustices that dogma and ignorance has brought to men and other people.
There will come a day when radical behaviorism and the people and institutions that employed it will be seen as one the worst and inhuman harms done to human race.
You're still heating water in both scenarios. In your case you are heating more water because more water is being used in the first place.
A good, realistic dishwasher should heat its own water. There is either a thermal hold or a long enough main wash with a strong enough heater to boost the temperature to at least 140*F.
