Dryer Fire Safety

[easyspindry]

Sometime ago . . .

. . . my salesman told me that F&P were going to discontinue the top load dryer because they would not be able to comply with the new fire rules.

Jerry Gay

 

[combo52]

F&P Top Load Dryers

See something good may have already come out of the new regulations, LOL. F&P [mostly plastic] dryers were a disaster waiting to happen, they were a total pile of junk, we have several customers with them although I have seen more on the junk pile than in homes.

 

[logixx]

Found it

 

[combo52]

Built-In Sprinklers

What a great idea and I always felt that so-called steam dryers were a silly idea, maybe if manufactures incorporate this technology into home models the insurance will start giving you a credit on your insurance premium for steam dryers.

I our area homes [ even single family ] have been required to have sprinkler systems for over 20 years and every laundry room has a sprinkler head over the washer and dryer although a built-in system would work faster and cause less mess and damage.

I LOVE technology and how it has helped us lead so much safer and productive lives.

John L.

 

[qualin]

I think this is a great idea.

Maybe steam drying is a bit of a gimmick, but if this has the potential of saving lives and preventing property damage, then I'm all for it.

I would certainly consider spending a bit extra on a dryer if it had this feature.

 

[tolivac]

Water conductance----Tap water IS a good conductor of electricy-You CANNOT put tap water into the cooling systems of our transmitters!!!It will trip off right away.To make water NON CONDUCTIVE you must DISTILL it and Doinize it.Then it is non conductive.We have a special ohmmeter that measures water condtance-tape water is around several Kohm-enough to cause problems or electrocution.A danger exists here-if the water STAYS in the transmitter system or the distilled water storage tank-no problem.But once its released and touches the floor-your body esp-its conductive.The salt on your body makes it even more so.And of course tap water SHOULD NOT be used to put out electrical fires unless all power is disconnected.The equipment has to be thouroughly dried out before energizing it again.And of course soot,ash,burned components has to be removed as well.We have both CO2 extingushers here(safe for electrical fires on energized equipment)and a fire hose--NOT safe unless power is removed.All transmitters do have emerg stop disconnects in case of fire or other emergency.The E-stop trips the main 4160V breaker to the transmitter.Not ALL power is removed-there is outlet power for the transmitter "tool and light" outlets and door switches.And 120VDC "House" battery power can appear in some places.

 

[kb0nes]

Tap water IS a good conductor of electricy

Rex,

Define "Good conductor", compared to a piece of Teflon water is a good conductor compared to any metal its VERY bad.

I just stuck the probes of my Fluke DMM into some fresh drawn tap water here at at ~1" spacing I got about 2Meg Ohm between them. I certainly wouldn't consider that to be a "good" conductor, but yes it does conduct.

The example of using water to cool a tube that has many kilovolts of plate voltage does require water that is non-ionized. But the point being made was that you can use water to put out a dryer fire as we are talking about very low voltage (by comparison). There is a big difference between standard household line voltage and 10Kv!

I wouldn't hesitate for a second to turn a hose on an electrically live dryer fire, but if it were the local power sub-station, I'd probably run away!

 

[tolivac]

I still would not spray water onto a dryer that is on fire--if you could unplug it or throw off its breaker-then yes.I just want to be safe!Remember what I mentioned about water getting onto other surfaces or your body-the conductivity then changes drastically.One time when one of our transmitters was leaking and the floor was wet-used a bakelite rod to turn the HV in the rig off-then powered it down using the same rod.The show was moved to another Tx-leak was fixed.Guess your water has a higher resistence than ours-The water here is lower.I have a small CO2 extingusher at home-this would work on a dryer fire OK without having to disconnect the power.Even with 240-120V would not spray water onto or into the device.

 

[arbilab]

"I wouldn't hesitate for a second to turn a hose on an electrically live dryer fire"

Just don't hold a metal hosefront nozzle and stand on wet concrete in your bare feet at the same time. 'Your conductivity may vary'.

Around 2005, my power went out accompanied by a loud distant explosion. I drove to the neighborhood substation where a 138kV transformer was merrily ablaze. The fire department was there but they were NOT hosing it down.

Credit to Austin electric, despite this major distribution disruption (the transformer was destroyed) they had the lights back on in a half hour. How? Manually operated crossover switches every several blocks allow the 7.2kV feed to be connected to an alternate substation. Not all utilities are so diligently prepared. The first month I was in DFW the power was out longer than it had been CUMULATIVELY in Austin over 19 years. Not a tornado, not an ice storm, most 3-hour outages occurred in clear calm weather. See 'management, competence thereof'.

 

[tolivac]

Sort of vaguely remember a saying among power company linemen and firemen-The firemen say-"we stay away from their WIRES until they shut off the power"The linemen say-"we stay away from THEIR fires!"Remember a substation explosion on YouTube several years back-involved a substation near Maimi,Fla-The substation transformer and other equipment was on fire and power still on-"the arc welder from HELL"Both waited until the fuses finally blew and killed the power-and the firemen could not spray water on the blaze becuase of the flaming,pouring transformer oil-only thing they could do was wait for the oil to burn-then hose the remains with protective barriers put in place.At my worksite-our transformers are fed with 115Kv.Just hope a fire never happens there-the "arc welder from hell!"Yes,when spraying water onto an electrical fire-always the danger of the water conducting power back to the person holding the hose!

 

[combo52]

Putting Out Dryer Fires

All this discussion of water being applied to hi-voltage [ 1000 volts or more ] fires has nothing to due with dryer fires, as my brother Phil says there would be no problem taking the garden hose to a flaming clothes dryer [ I would even do this in bare or soaking wet feet ] The greatest voltage potential in an electric dyer is just 120 volts to ground. Now granted I am not going to wrestle the dryer away from the wall while standing in water, but I am certainly not going to waste valuable time putting out the fire running around looking for a circuit breaker or trying to unplug it if I have a hose available.

I think that the fire safety experts that REQUIRE a water sprinkler head over EVERY dryer installation in new housing, without requiring an electrical shut-off before the sprinkler activates know a little more than most of us.

John L.

 

[combo52]

Putting Out Dryer Fires

All this discussion of water being applied to hi-voltage [ 1000 volts or more ] fires has nothing to due with dryer fires, as my brother Phil says there would be no problem taking the garden hose to a flaming clothes dryer [ I would even do this in bare or soaking wet feet ] The greatest voltage potential in an electric dyer is just 120 volts to ground. Now granted I am not going to wrestle the dryer away from the wall while standing in water, but I am certainly not going to waste valuable time putting out the fire running around looking for a circuit breaker or trying to unplug it if I have a hose available.

I think that the fire safety experts that REQUIRE a water sprinkler head over EVERY dryer installation in new housing, without requiring an electrical shut-off before the sprinkler activates know a little more than most of us.

John L.

 

[arbilab]

I've accidentally watered a 120V socket with a hose in bare feet on concrete and while it may or may not be life threatening depending on circumstances it is NOT comfortable.

Yes thanks, we KNOOOOW a dryer is only 120V to ground and that kV powerlines are irrelevant in that context. But kVs make better stories.

Now we know that NFPA says dryers AND washers cause one structure fire out of 22. So they definitely happen and you don't want that. But has anyone said WHY? As in root cause? I've never seen one firsthand or heard of one secondhand (media/statistics is third hand). The limit thermos are already redundant. Are BOTH of them failing in the closed position?

Is the machine misoperated, as in flammable solvent residue or clogged lint trap? We're glomming gas and electric together in these stats. How many are gas leaks? My furnace had one, caught on inspection, but even so it never blew up. IOW, what says what's being added actually addresses an actual cause? Can't outlaw stupidity.

The autoignition point of cotton is 765F. For gasoline it's 475–536F. A dryer can get THAT HOT and just keep going? And the owner/operator never knows anything is wrong? Well that I'll concede. In a population, unfathomable stupidity exists.

Nevermind me, I'm just an unemployed failure analysis engineer with a fairly healthy streak of skepticism when it comes to regulatory decrees. Ya know, FAA certified a number of commercial aircraft with glaring design deficiencies that ended up killing people.

 

[countryguy]

Just a couple of months ago, a friend of a friend was working out in his garage (he has lots of power tools for wood working). He unplugged a power tool, noticed a spark and then flames from the outlet. He grabbed the garden hose, sprayed it on the outlet and the next thing he knew the flames had travelled along the entire electrical wiring. Within minutes the garage had burnt to the ground. The garage was detached otherwise the house would have burned as well. The 2 cars in the driveway did melt some from the intense heat as did the siding on the house. The firemen told him that you should never use water to put out an electrical fire.....use a fire extinguisher.

Gary