Electric Cars are now Biting into Gasoline Sales

[bradfordwhite]

#16

Just like how computer and cel phones evolved.  

 

Think of your first computer and peripherals.  ..and how much did you pay?   LOL

 

My first (real) computer was an IBM in 1996 and it replaced a Packard Bell computer I had purchased a month earlier at CompUSA.  I paid like $1100 .  LOL  Yes, a Packard Bell.

 

But anyway, that IBM had a 4.3 GB hard drive. 

 

Technology progressed fast over the years.  It's doing the same with electric cars only faster because computers are making everything evolve much faster.  Faster than humans can adopt to at this point.

 

 

[daveamkrayoguy]

I actually stopped on a dime for a horse-drawn wagon in Ohio of which two horses were pulling and a man leading them was riding in on my way to the State's Fair...

Horses and buggies are still the main form of transportation in the parts of Indiana such as Shipshewana which I frequently visit...

And, heck, outdoor lights are strung around vertical structures such as poles and trees using indoor two-prong extension cords and the lighting strips seemingly rated more for indoor use than what I can't imagine weathering winter conditions when such would be mainly lit, though I think these lights are on nightly year round...

Computers and phones, too, have evolutionized way beyond what mankind can imagine, though hairdly in mass ways the way automotive industry products are going to be expected to, no matter how many volumes of those there are in use...

There will always be a vehicle's carrying capacity and ability to maintain traction in various inclement conditions and often a proven ability to conquer both that will need to be developed at least there in what's heavy duty use...

Lastly when horses, oxen, mules and other animals were abandoned as regular use for transport, think of how fossil fuels were abundant and even easily refined when the automotive age finally came about and many who'd scorned, scoffed at or simply would not accept this change somehow easily and quickly adapted to this eternal stage...

And that's even doing the work involved in building, maintaining and providing the needed energy for, never thinking about any negative effects such as noise or pollution as much as enjoying the much obvious and positive advantage the progress of such offered, never looking back at the previous mode, and allowing this revolution in transit to go on for centuries...

Many improvements have and still come a long way, so harnessing a similar capability via a certain other source permanently as another standard seemingly needs to be as dramatically developed, and only time will tell how well and everlastingly permanent this change will be...

-- Dave

 

[volvoman]

@ Reply 18

"...Once that is put in place, think of how nice it will be to subscribe to a transport SERVICE

instead of having to buy, drive, insure, fix, garage, clean, and be licensed to drive a vehicle.

AND you no longer need to be concerned about driving..."

Yeah, no thanks. I love driving.

 

[lowefficiency]

>> But I think I'll wait until battery technology gets better and we can go at least 600 miles or more, between
>> charging. My daughter lives 365 miles away, and I don't want to have to search out a charging station that
>> may be the wrong type, broken, or waiting on someone else to get done using it.

The point of diminishing returns hits way before 600 miles. They could make an EV with a 600 mile range today, but it wouldn't be what consumers want. More range takes more batteries, and more batteries means more weight, which means more power is required just to haul your battery pack around. Plus with increased weight comes worse handling, faster tire wear, lower interior and cargo space, more energy losses to pack heating and cooling, and most importantly - slower charging when it's depleted and higher cost per mile on road trips.

With the battery technology we have today (and the improvements that are forecast), a car with a 300 mile range is going to be much more pleasant day-to-day than a 600+ mile car.

 

[volvoman]

@ Reply 22

"...a car with a 300 mile range is going to be much more pleasant day-to-day than a 600+ mile car..."

Yes, but what happens if you're the type of person that doesn't use their car as a "commuter appliance" or grocery getter?

As an example, my wife and I enjoy our long-distance road trips to the Carolinas, several times a year. In our gas-powered cars, we can make the drive in about 8 or 9 hours, only having to stop once for fuel (I'll save you the trouble - we're weirdos that do not stop for bathroom, stretch, or food breaks. It's all about making time, and enjoying our destination).

With the current state of BEVs, you'd be stopping multiple times, often for 30 or more minutes. To Mrs. Volvoman and I, that's waste. Sure, car makers tout a 250 or 300 mile range. But that's assuming that you're not using the climate control system, have to pass a truck using reserve power, or listening to the radio. An accurate estimate, is to take that range, and divide it in half. Car and Driver just published an article putting a gas-powered Jetta against a Chevrolet Bolt. The Bolt started off well...but then, it rained. And with the traction of the tires against the wet road, the range dropped precariously. With a gas car, this isn't something a person has to worry about.

Make no mistake - I'm not bashing electric cars. In fact, they're quite useful for those that live in the city, have short commutes, or only use their vehicle for quick errands. But for what our family needs, they're not ready for prime time. When a BEV comes out that can charge as quickly as it takes to fuel an ICE vehicle, goes the same distance between charging as an ICE vehicle, and costs the same as an ICE vehicle, I'll gladly make the switch. But now is not the time.

 

[daveamkrayoguy]

Well here’s an EV that someone just gave me—I just need to fit in it that’s all:

— Dave

 

[sudsmaster]

Kind of looks like a kiddie EV...

 

 

[firedome]

most people...

have more the one car, so it makes sense to have an EV for short trips, which comprises 80-90% of most people's driving, and an IC vehicle for trips if long range is a factor. That's our plan, as soon as Toyota makes the type of EV we want.

 

[philcobendixduo]

Nissan Leaf Experience

I was an "early adopter" in 2011 when I took delivery of my 2011 Nissan Leaf SL. It was number 2535 off the line.
The "sales claim" was "up to 100 miles on a charge".
I never got more than 85 miles on a charge and usually more like 65-75.
I loved the EV driving experience and, with all the rebates, tax incentives, and other "perks", I was really motivated to go electric.
Despite the limited range, I enjoyed driving the car and it was perfect for running local errands and short trips.
The low maintenance needs were also a selling point for me. Brake fluid changes and tire rotations were all I ever needed. One set of new tires at around 30k miles.
After 12 years and 42k miles, the 24KWh battery capacity was giving me only about 20-30 miles of range.
Nissan wanted $13,500 to replace the battery so I decided to just sell the car to CarMax for $3400 a couple of months ago.
Yes - there are independent shops that change out EV batteries but sadly, none in my area.
If I could have gotten a new and larger capacity battery for a decent price, I would have kept the car.
For now, I am back to driving only my ICE car.
I might consider an EV in the future when battery technology improves AND range is equal to an ICE car.
Then, an EV could be my only car rather than just a "city car".

 

[qsd-dan]

Short trips in mild climate areas is about the only option for EV's at the moment.

 

A/C sucks down battery power in the hot areas with the same problem as running the heater in colder areas. Also, be aware that there's a battery heater which keeps it from freezing. That heater can significantly reduce battery power just sitting in the garage/parking lot in temps at and below freezing.

 

Hybrids are still where it's at for the moment, just drive them easy. The first hybrid I saw was a Honda Insight in early 1999 while I was driving up the Altamont Pass. The speed limit was (still is) 65 MPH and I was doing 70 so I didn't have to downshift out of 5th gear in my brand new Honda Accord. That Insight blew past me on the left lane at more than 85 MPH. It just seemed counterproductive driving a Hybrid to save on gas while dogging the crap out of it up a semi steep hill. It was also brand new, which is not an ideal way to treat a vehicle before it's broken in.

 

[bradfordwhite]

U.S. Canada work together on charging network

.

https://www.ecowatch.com/ev-charging-network-us-canada.html

 

[bradfordwhite]

There are already more public charging stations for EVs in the U.S. than there are old fashioned gas stations.

And guess what, EV charging stations don't have big expensive tanks under the ground that could leak, explode, or contaminate the ground water.

Charging stations, being so compact, can be set up anywhere. I almost always see them in shopping areas and hotel parking lots.

However, there are many more recharging options for EV drivers, compared to stinky gasoline. With electric you can charge:

1. At home either with a 230 volt charger or simply by plugging into a standard outlet we already have.
2. At a hotel, RV parks, your relatives/friends home, ...anywhere where there is a typical electric plug or bigger.
3. You can modify your vehicle by installing flexible solar panels on your car roof that will help you charge your battery whenever the sun is out, whether your driving or not.
4. If you have your own solar panel array, as many people here in California do, you can charge your own car for FREE.

With petroleum, you can't do any of that cool stuff. If there is an oil embargo, or prices climb again (and they will) you are completely at the mercy of petroleum wheeler-dealers.

You rarely ever hear stories of some moron who drove their EV until the charge was completely done. There's no valid excuse for that. There are many apps that make finding a charge station super easy.

Charging stations are where you will see a higher socio-economic class of people as well. They also are clean because they are new and there are no, and never will be any oil/gasoline leaks all over the ground turning it black and gross.

Compare that to going to a typical <span style="text-decoration: underline;">aged</span> gas station. They age so quick. You have to watch where you step as you don't want to step in diesel fuel or wet gasoline spills. You don't want the stuff splashing on your clothes or your car. You don't want to breathe that poison. Everything is worn and weathered. It's so dingey. The whole mega gas station/convenience store format is also OLD. Over priced candy , snacks, unhealthy junk food, and of course the dirty bathrooms.

Nope, won't miss that.

https://insideevs.com/news/665309/electrify-america-ceo-elect-cross-country-charging-trip/

 

[firedome]

well as Hans said...

it's coming, deal with it. I for one can 't wait to reduce auto maintenance expense by an average of 40% and get a fuel economy equivalent to 130mpg in a clean and quiet electric vehicle.

 

[kenwashesmonday]

For my 4 mile commute, an electic car just doesn't make financial sense.  My 2013 Kia Soul turns 10 years old this coming July, and only has 46,000 miles on it.  As I see it, the car is only half used up.  If it were an electric car it would be almost done at 10 years.

 

[combo52]

Electric versus hybrid cars

All electric cars will eventually predominate because of their reliability and economy.

Hybrid cars are only good if you get a plug-in one otherwise you’re still totally dependent on the whims of the price of gasoline

One of the ideal cars it was sold was the Chevy volt, you could drive at 80 miles or so locally and put gas in it and drive it across the country without a thought, I wish there were more cars that gave you the option of either with a reasonable range.

Hot weather is not hard on an electric car air conditioning draws very little power, likewise now that they’re using heat pumps to heat the interior in cold weather cold weather is not the deathknell of electric cars ,

My older brother in Minnesota has an electric VW. It works fine. It’s even warm inside.

John L.

 

[maytag85]

Hans

Hans, you should story about the late 60’s full sized Oldsmobile (think it was either a 88 or 98) that got ridiculously good gas mileage with the experimental carburetor it had on it.

 

[kenwashesmonday]

"electric car air conditioning draws very little power

as compared to what?

 

[combo52]

Reply # 35

Hi Ken, Compared to driving the car.

 

In an electric car you could run the A/C for weeks before you come close to depleting the battery charge, the A/C systems used on electric cars are VERY efficient compared to the engine driven systems on regular cars.

 

John L.

 

[tolivac]

In the Toyota BZ4X electric car the AC doubles as a heat pump in winter.

 

[lowefficiency]

>> For my 4 mile commute, an electic car just doesn't make financial sense. My 2013 Kia Soul turns 10 years old
>> this coming July, and only has 46,000 miles on it. As I see it, the car is only half used up. If it were an electric
>> car it would be almost done at 10 years.

An electric car would actually be perfect for that scenario. Only four miles at a time is comparatively hard on a gasoline car, as it spends so little time warmed up at operating temperature - if it gets there at all (winter). And just from a comfort aspect, the instant heat of an electric car is wonderful in the winter.

Used prices on a 2013 Soul with ~50k miles seems to be in the $10-13K range, with most in the low 12s. So you could sell your Soul (haha) and move straight across to a used Nissan Leaf, BMW i3, etc... maybe even put some money back in your pocket depending on which car you got.