Even SQ has their issues

[henene4]

As I always say: SQ is not the be all and end all.

If THAT is their service in a rural area, and they don't do the simple things that ANY service department should (like, have basically all small parts - boards, sensors, belts, switches etc. - on hand with every service tech), there's no wonder service can turn into a nightmare.
It's the one thing the EU brands over here still do right: Every tech has a van with basically all small parts for almost all machines right there. You don't drive 50 miles, to see "Oh that issue is real", drive back 50 miles, order a part, wait, drive another 100 miles round trip to fit the part - just to have another issue.
You go there, fit the part, fit another part, and are done.
And that's just SO MUCH more important in a country that's far more stretched out than over here.

The issue of other failures spreading onto control boards isn't even such a new or unknown thing. Even Miele had such an issue with very specfic machines. Heck, even SQ has had a wave of those issues on their FLs a few years back.
That's just a thing that you have to go ahead and fix proactivley.



SQ's aren't bad machines.
But they aren't the "Just get them" solution many on here tout them to be...

 

[combo52]

Good morning all I watched this entire video, it’s unfortunate that the user had so many problems getting their machine repaired.

The user didn’t do a very good research job that’s for sure. I do not recommend the TR7. I do not even recommend the TC five except for old people who can’t cope with a lid lock or a front load washer.

I will concede that Speed Queen needs to work on their warranty service policies a little bit we have occasionally had a problem getting something approved quickly enough.

The rest of this is pretty much bunk. We’re working in an area where there’s 100,000 Speed Queen machines I think we’ve replaced three output boards over the past half dozen years they’re not having a problem with it. There have been a few problems with the water level sensor. That’s a cheap small part that yes everybody oughta have on their truck for a service car. They also should have a lid lock on their truck. If they’re gonna go out in the service call

The biggest mistake Speed Queen made is replacing all the parts on that TC5. That tends to give people the impression that the machine is a lemon when in fact, there was just one bad part, the water level sensor or lid lock cannot possibly cause the main boards to go bad. The board quality at Speed Queen has not plummeted. We are seeing maybe a board replaced every few months over all the different Speed Queen’s we work on

Back to the buyer anybody that is buying an appliance should make sure their service available for it. I have said this all my life don’t buy any Appliance where there isn’t good local service especially if you live in the middle of who knows where this guy lives

Somebody with this much money in a big house should have two washers and maybe two dryers we recommend large families have at least two washers. It’s just too important to keep a household functioning you need back ups that’s just being prepared for life.

And I’ll go back and say too. I would not buy any Speed Queen top loader. Get the Speed Queen front loader.

It’s interesting. The reviewer went and bought a pair of Maytag‘s, which are very good machines, but he’s just not very smart. He didn’t say anything about the Maytag and if you have a family of six, why would you buy a top loading washer you’re wasting so much money to run that it’s ridiculous

We run into customers like this occasionally they’re trying to live in the past they think by buying a top load washer their life will be wonderful, you’ve got to get with the times I’m sure he doesn’t drive a 1966 Ford galaxy either, lol

 

[phillymatt53]

Asides from the SQ's having some minor mechanical parts issues, I firmly believe that any "electronic" stuff shouldn't be in such machines, of any brand.
It goes without saying that ever since the washer world started using electronics, these issues have been the topic of discussions.
Compare that to machines that were built with mechanical timers and real mechanical switches/controls - which rarely ever failed.
I blame the designers of these "new style" machines for their following each other into the "electric world" - just to "keep up" with other manufacturers "trends".

Sure, having sexy electronics, programmed cycles, touch pads, digital displays and fancy LED lights, etc., is an eye-catching way to impress the consumer.
However, getting so complex just adds a weak spot to devices.
I've had to deal with plenty of "modern" electronics like stereo systems and TV/video products that used those failure-prone touch switches, among other failure-prone things.

I suggested to several friends a couple of years ago, when they needed to purchase a new washer pair, to get Speed Queen - the models back then using traditional mechanical controls.
I emphasized that they still used all-metal gears in their transmissions that last, as opposed to others the went with those plastic gears.
And NOT ONCE have they ever experienced a problem, they love their purchases.
Shame on Speed Queen to join the "crowd" of cheapening products manufacturers.

Just like my old 1985 Maytag pair, still churning out load after load with never an issue.
Oh wait!..... The dryer 10 years ago needed a $7.00 selenoid coil on the gas valve, a 10 minute fix and that's all.

 

[DADoES]

The mechanical timer broke on mom's 1994 KitchenAid washer. The shaft loosened such that it didn't turn the mechanism. The only way to set a cycle was to grasp the dial skirt.

The timer an aunt's mid-late 1960s Kenmore 800 also broke such that the shaft and knob/dial would pull out and detach from the mechanism if not handled carefully. She couldn't get a grip on how to realign it when that happened, would call me to do it.

 

[philcobendixduo]

Well designed electronics will stand the test of time.
My 1987 Kenmore Limited Edition Electronic Fabric Care washer and dryer are still working just fine and have never had any issues at all with the electronic controls.
Considering the washer controls are subject to high humidity and vibration, it is amazing to me that they've held up over the years.
One thing of note - these machines have built-in surge suppressors which, I believe, have helped to protect the electronics from failure.

 

[johnb300m]

It's really not the "electronics" fault.
There are industries that can build and spec control boards that WILL get you a minimum of 10yrs of service or more, and consistently.

Examples:
Smoke/CO alarm industry (of which I was part of), will build and spec electronic parts with life and cycle times to meet the minimum 10yr warranty period.
we put warnings on all the devices saying that they must be replaced every 10yrs.
That's NOT because the electronics cannot last longer. They often can. It's just that, failures before that are statistically very low. And failures after 10yrs statistically go up, from sheer age of components. But, many control boards and parts DO last longer than the spec'd 10yrs. But the nature of those being a life safety device, it's imperative we put that warning on.

Automotive electronics are extremely robust. Sure there are problems were certain things might fail, but those are in the statistical realm of being outliers. The vast majority of those electronic parts are designed and built to withstand years of service in very very abusive conditions.
They must withstand repeated power cycles on and off, happening in extreme heat and cold, for years in and out. And a vast majority of them do that.
Some fail, because theses are parts built by humans, installed by humans. The intent is to have them last, but some might be faulty. It just happens.

Military electronics are extremely robust and will last virtually forever. They also have costs in the stratosphere, which governments only pay. But the necesity is to have zero field failures. And getting there is very expensive.

The appliance electronics are now (within the last several years) purposely built very cheap. With terrible construction at times, sloppy soldering or conformal coatings. Lowest bidder relays or components.
Much of this is driven by the constant pressure to keep appliance prices rock bottom.
It's a complex dance between OEM company, retailers, and customers alike.
The OEM wants the highest margin and profit. The retailer wants the highest turnover and highest margin. And the customer wants the lowest price.
These incentives are all diametrically opposed from eachother.
If appliance price and BOM costs and quality were to stay constant to today, coming out of the 80s, appliance prices would be at least $1,000 for a BOL machine. Heck, maybe they should be.
The OEMs are terrified of adding too much cost (quality) to the machines because the retailers won't put up with it, and they are hell bent on selling a washer to customers in the $500-700 range. That's not far off from the sales price in the late 80s and 90s for many machines. There's been tremendous inflation since then, and that cost/profit must be squeezed from somewhere. So they took it out of the steel, out of the components, went offshore for lots of stuff etc.
BensApplianceandJunk has spoke to this at many instances. And it has a lot of validity.

The unfortunate cynical timeline we're in however is, if the OEMs and retailers were to provide $1,000 -$2,000 machines to be on price parity of machines from the "Imperial" time period, they probably would not add much quality back in. They would just keep those added profits and pump them into stock buybacks.
Unfortunately further, with the erosion of purchasing power and the winds the economy is going into, appliance prices will probably stay the same or even go UP, while quality further errodes until there's a full revolt from customers/retailers. And we're not at that bottom yet.

 

[henene4]

I still love how people hammer down issues like "failure prone touch switches" - which haven't been an issue in a decade or more, at least ever since we have wide spread capacitive sensing technology.

And how timers are so much better - even though even SQ has a not that low percentage of their dryer timers fail.



The EU has had fully electronic washers for almost 50 years now, if not that.

The issue is: SQ is asking a premium for low spec design that's almost a decade old.
Designing good electronics is an art/craft as well - but even if you aren't good at it, at least get the service down.

What use is repairability and a great drive system if if something goes wrong you are stranded in a service dessert?
What use are warranty claims if the company says they'd care - until it's no longer convenient for them?
What a TC 5 is today, you'd get about 700-800$ worth of appliance in 2000.
So the machine is expensive - not only by todays standard - yet you still get wear items, expensive parts, hit or miss service.
And a design not improved in ages - so you don't even get the R&D you'd expect at that price.

 

[phillymatt53]

Well designed electronics will stand the test of time.
My 1987 Kenmore Limited Edition Electronic Fabric Care washer and dryer are still working just fine and have never had any issues at all with the electronic controls.
Considering the washer controls are subject to high humidity and vibration, it is amazing to me that they've held up over the years.
One thing of note - these machines have built-in surge suppressors which, I believe, have helped to protect the electronics from failure.

In 1987, products were still made reliable, for the most part.
However, these days electronics have suffered an increasingly cheapened downslide in durability.
Cost-cutting, bad choice of parts vendors, and greed by manufacturers.

 

[phillymatt53]

The mechanical timer broke on mom's 1994 KitchenAid washer. The shaft loosened such that it didn't turn the mechanism. The only way to set a cycle was to grasp the dial skirt.

The timer an aunt's mid-late 1960s Kenmore 800 also broke such that the shaft and knob/dial would pull out and detach from the mechanism if not handled carefully. She couldn't get a grip on how to realign it when that happened, would call me to do it.

That does happen, on occasion.

 

[phillymatt53]

It's really not the "electronics" fault.
There are industries that can build and spec control boards that WILL get you a minimum of 10yrs of service or more, and consistently.

Examples:
Smoke/CO alarm industry (of which I was part of), will build and spec electronic parts with life and cycle times to meet the minimum 10yr warranty period.
we put warnings on all the devices saying that they must be replaced every 10yrs.
That's NOT because the electronics cannot last longer. They often can. It's just that, failures before that are statistically very low. And failures after 10yrs statistically go up, from sheer age of components. But, many control boards and parts DO last longer than the spec'd 10yrs. But the nature of those being a life safety device, it's imperative we put that warning on.

Automotive electronics are extremely robust. Sure there are problems were certain things might fail, but those are in the statistical realm of being outliers. The vast majority of those electronic parts are designed and built to withstand years of service in very very abusive conditions.
They must withstand repeated power cycles on and off, happening in extreme heat and cold, for years in and out. And a vast majority of them do that.
Some fail, because theses are parts built by humans, installed by humans. The intent is to have them last, but some might be faulty. It just happens.

Military electronics are extremely robust and will last virtually forever. They also have costs in the stratosphere, which governments only pay. But the necesity is to have zero field failures. And getting there is very expensive.

The appliance electronics are now (within the last several years) purposely built very cheap. With terrible construction at times, sloppy soldering or conformal coatings. Lowest bidder relays or components.
Much of this is driven by the constant pressure to keep appliance prices rock bottom.
It's a complex dance between OEM company, retailers, and customers alike.
The OEM wants the highest margin and profit. The retailer wants the highest turnover and highest margin. And the customer wants the lowest price.
These incentives are all diametrically opposed from eachother.
If appliance price and BOM costs and quality were to stay constant to today, coming out of the 80s, appliance prices would be at least $1,000 for a BOL machine. Heck, maybe they should be.
The OEMs are terrified of adding too much cost (quality) to the machines because the retailers won't put up with it, and they are hell bent on selling a washer to customers in the $500-700 range. That's not far off from the sales price in the late 80s and 90s for many machines. There's been tremendous inflation since then, and that cost/profit must be squeezed from somewhere. So they took it out of the steel, out of the components, went offshore for lots of stuff etc.
BensApplianceandJunk has spoke to this at many instances. And it has a lot of validity.

The unfortunate cynical timeline we're in however is, if the OEMs and retailers were to provide $1,000 -$2,000 machines to be on price parity of machines from the "Imperial" time period, they probably would not add much quality back in. They would just keep those added profits and pump them into stock buybacks.
Unfortunately further, with the erosion of purchasing power and the winds the economy is going into, appliance prices will probably stay the same or even go UP, while quality further errodes until there's a full revolt from customers/retailers. And we're not at that bottom yet.

You mentioned automotive electronics....
Well, the electronics should be made extremely well, because people's lives are sometimes dependent on it.
Remember the Audi issue from years ago?
Accelerator modules causing uncontrolled speeds, and plowing the poor victims to their death.
In THAT case, the choice of vender for the capacitors was the result of cheapening or poor design.
So yes, electronics in certain products IS the fault.

So it's up to the vendors AND the designers to turn out reliable products.
No one can argue that point, unless they're paid to cover someone's butts.

 

[phillymatt53]

I still love how people hammer down issues like "failure prone touch switches" - which haven't been an issue in a decade or more, at least ever since we have wide spread capacitive sensing technology.

And how timers are so much better - even though even SQ has a not that low percentage of their dryer timers fail.

I'm talking about switches that are activated by pushing a button, a frail delicate contact that is known widely for having corrosion set in, causing failure to close it's contacts.
They're known in the trade as "tac" switches.

As far as mechanical timers, it depends on the vendor who sells them.
And if the designer doesn't choose carefully, it puts the product at risk of failure.

 

[phillymatt53]

And I’ll go back and say too. I would not buy any Speed Queen top loader. Get the Speed Queen front loader.

It’s interesting. The reviewer went and bought a pair of Maytag‘s, which are very good machines, but he’s just not very smart. He didn’t say anything about the Maytag and if you have a family of six, why would you buy a top loading washer you’re wasting so much money to run that it’s ridiculous

We run into customers like this occasionally they’re trying to live in the past they think by buying a top load washer their life will be wonderful, you’ve got to get with the times I’m sure he doesn’t drive a 1966 Ford galaxy either, lol

I base things on overall reality, naturally.
However, I'm also not prone to manipulating or insulting others intelligence in order to suggest a certain type of product.
After all, it's they're money, and they're freedom of choice.
If I make a suggestion, it's only based on my experiences.

 

[johnb300m]

You mentioned automotive electronics....
Well, the electronics should be made extremely well, because people's lives are sometimes dependent on it.
Remember the Audi issue from years ago?
Accelerator modules causing uncontrolled speeds, and plowing the poor victims to their death.
In THAT case, the choice of vender for the capacitors was the result of cheapening or poor design.
So yes, electronics in certain products IS the fault.

So it's up to the vendors AND the designers to turn out reliable products.
No one can argue that point, unless they're paid to cover someone's butts.

You can pick and choose discreet incidents all you want.
The fact of the matter is, while there's been a downslide in quality lately, on a whole, automotive electronics are very reliable, and moreso than they were at their inception decades ago.