Everyone meet Horsey->LG

[supremewhirlpol]

3beltwesty:
I noticed that the seals were different and that the area around the shaft on the spider different compared to the old spider as well. As a result I had to remove the epoxy around the shaft. My concern was that the uneven surface would cause the outer lip of the new seal to fail. Yes the cylinder is isolated from the spider, however there is one bolt that is not isolated from the spider, but is isolated from the cylinder. I probably should have ordered new baffles, as the threads are plastic. This is a first try->you learn and improve as you learn from your mistakes. Thanks for your help!! Interesting link you posted.

fordtech:
The smell does come from the board when the machine is running.

I did think about relocating the board and using a different enclosure, but I may do more damage to the PCB in the process. A replacement costs~$60->moderately cheap in cost to buy. I think for now I'll leave the cover of the PCB off and place shielding around the water valves. Since I have taken the cover off, the PCB does not get as hot.

If I have time, I just may test it today. Will post a video on YT.

 

[fordtech]

You would think they could put cooling fans on the PCB like computers, printers, etc have.

 

[PhotonPanda]

They could have put cooling fans, but that would make things more complex and more costly; fans fail remarkably quick too. I think a washing machine is still not complex enough that it requires forced air cooling for its compute power.

You'll notice that even the motor doesn't have separate cooling, but the cooling is built into the mechanism itself. The slots on the outer rotating hub direct air into the motor to cool it as it spins.

Embedded electronics are typically made with low power consumption and low heat output in mind, although there may be a part which puts out more heat. Just stick a suitable size heat sink on those parts and they'll be fine without fans. There are many parts which will stand up to a lot of heat before being in any danger of failing too. Unfortunately it doesn't mean you'll never smell them. :-D

 

[supremewhirlpol]

The PCB in the picture is also the motor control unit. All the the power electronics in a motor control unit generate lots of heat. A properly designed motor control unit will either have a fan or a BIG heat sink to deal with all the heat. Since I have removed the cover, it doesn't really smell any more. I do notice a temperature change at the rear left side of the top. This is where the PCB is located.
Yes, A fan would be good, remember these machines are put together as cheaply as possible, so a fan would not added. They would probably rather that the part fail because of lack of proper heat dissipation. The person goes out sells another kidney to buy another crap machine! It makes the LG folks happy. I will probably add a fan, but given that some of the circuits on the PCB probably have tight tolerances for current amounts, adding a fan might not be very easy.

 

[fordtech]

Cooling fan

If you purchased a 110V electronics cooling fan you could wire it straight to the L1 power source. You can find them at Radio Shack if you have one near you or online.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Getting the actual fan is not the problem. I have tons of fans of different sizes, voltages, CFM output, etc. I have both sleeve and ball bearing fans, standard PC fans, server grade fans, industrial fans, and special application fans. I have 48VDC,24VDC,12VDC, 5VDC, 3.3VDC, 110VAC, 220VAC, 208VAC, 27VAC 3phase Squarewave fans, AC tubeaxial fans, split-phase fans, PSC motor fans, shaded pole fans, 1 or 2 standard box fans and maybe a vintage fan or two.

I want the fan to shut off when the machine shuts off, so I have to find an appropriate place on the PCB to wire it. When selecting a place, I want the amount of current that the fan draws to not over load the circuit, and cause an electrical component to fail. I also don't want electrical noise from the fan to affect the function of other things on the PCB as well.

 

[fordtech]

Well you certainly have no shortage of resources.. LOL
Ill be anxiously waiting your solution.

 

[iheartmaytag]

Just wondering . . .

With the epoxy you used to seal the spider and inner tub. Does it have an effect on the balance of the tub, or is the spider so far back that it doesn't matter?

After watching your repair, I am just glad that I resisted the man at Sear's that promised me everything but a pony ride if I would go LG. I am glad I kept saying no.

 

[3beltwesty]

LG not alone in aluminum spider failures

iheartmaytag; LG is not alone in having aluminum spiders that break.

Supremewhirlpol here documented very well this LG that had one fail.

The real question for a home consumer is what if any brands do not have an aluminum spider directly connected to a Stainless drum, about all the other brand do this too.

The web is full of tales, videos of the other brands that failed too; some of these web links of woes are long and old; ie over 8 years ago. One has failures with Whirlpool, GE, Maytag, Sears, Frigidaire, etc etc in aluminum spiders. With some brands one could not even replace the spider, one has to buy the entire stainless basket too, the entire assembly.

With an old Maytag Neptune, they had a plastic isolator.

Type in Google : aluminum spider washer corrosion

and read the mess of folks woes and LG has few hits, since they are newer to FL washers. ie the time bomb of field failures hit yet with a newer brand.

For most folks a major failure in a home washer like an aluminum spider breaking means the washer is junked. Look at all the stuff that has to be removed in supremes great images just to replace the spider. One has the raw cost of 2 new bearings, seal, spider and bolts a maybe 1/2 to 1 days labor. With some brand the loose drum has a screw that ruins the outer tub too. It is such a bad task that most repair places quote the required labor cost and folks freak out. It is major surgery, one has to take the whole machine apart. It has risk too for the repair chap, connectors can be brittle, plastics can break.

The average Joe or Jane who buys an Acme FL washer for 500 to 800 bucks will junk it when the spider breaks in 3 to 12 years.

http://fixitnow.com/wp/2009/10/28/f...ion-contagion-a-menagerie-of-metallic-misery/

 

[iheartmaytag]

I knew that other machines also suffered spider failure, I just was not that impressed with the LG when I looked at them. Ditto for the Samsung.

I just felt better buying a nice American marketed, German built machine. And I bought an extended warranty.

 

[3beltwesty]

which "American marketed, German built machine" ?

which model number?

 

[iheartmaytag]

which model number?

Maytag 5000 series With Steam.

I had it and it's matching dryer for a year now. We are very happy together.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Of all the fans I have, these make the cut for this application. The Sprite(middle) (requires 48V) is OK. The Nidec is server grade and 3 wire (12V) and the NMB (biggest) provides the most air movement. It requires 48V as well, a good server grade fan too. For this application, it would be a WASTE to use the Nidec, especially since it has the connector that makes it convenient to plug into computer motherboards.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

It has 5 wires coming out of it. When opening the terminal block, the fan is actually a 3 wire fan. From the circuit board on the fan, there are wires red(+),white(sensor), and black(-) coming from the fan motor. Wires blue, Yellow, White come from the other side of the board. I only need to use wires red and black.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Works quite well! Now to install...

 

[3beltwesty]

Measured Power Consumption of entire LG washer while running

Here I measured with a wattmeter the input to a new LG WM2501HWA steam washer during a fast tumble and the spin cycle too.

This washer has the same spider part number, same stator as the LG washer in this thread, but is rated at 4.2 cuft instead of 4.0 cuft . The PCB is different since it has the steam settup.

DATA:

(1) The wash power while spinning at max wash rpm, say 50 rpm? speed was between 85 and 105 watts,

(2) spin/extract 380 to 420 watts.

(3) During the many mini back and forth cycles and *most* of the running time the power is real small like 5 to 22 watts while the drum is moving. It drops to 0 to 2 watts for a soak.

The total Kilowatt hours for the wash load was 0.14, this is lower than my 1976 3 belt Westinghouse which is about 0.22 to 0.25 KWhr. If one on the new LG uses the steam or heater and/or a long cycle the power consumed can double.

This was with a "kill a watt" meter connected between the washer and AC wall plug, with washer load of about a dozen T shirts. The spin setting was not the max but the default one setting below max, for the normal wash setting.

If the board driving the stator is marginal, it would probably fail during the spin cycle. Thus having the added fan somehow running when the spin cycle is running would be an idea.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

!!!BAD NEWS!!!

Start to get knocking noise when spinning cylinder. Bearings don't have any "play" them. Felt what I think is water between the motor plate and the rear of the outer tub where the rear shock is. Looks like water is draining from the weep hole behind the water seal!->not good. When the bearings fail(soon) I'll make a wind turbine out of this machine!

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Videos of Horsey are up
prewash spin

 

[supremewhirlpol]

main wash video

 

[3beltwesty]

What are thoughts about the ball bearings?

Do you think the ball bearings are somehow cocked, or with too much axial preload?

If you have the machine off and revolve the basket, how many clicks (bearing noises) do you hear per revolution?

In your recent videos at what time X:YZ is the bearing noise the worst?