Everyone meet Horsey->LG

[tomturbomatic]

Going back to the start: The leak killed the sensor if I interpret the pictures correctly. Did the sensor have to be in that position, vulnerable to water from a bearing failure leak or was that just the cheap way to do it? Actually what's a failed sensor when you have such catastrophic failure of principal metal pieces?

In the early 60s, Westinghouse ran an ad campaign where the owner of a WH slant front washer was holding out her apron and catching money that was coming out of the machine. The ad stressed the economics of using the machine; the savings in water and detergent. The final sentence was a kicker: Because she saved so much, she could afford a new washer every 5 years. That was the point at which the warranty on the tub drive components expired. If the machine had been used hard and not really well cared for, it might be showing signs of rust in the door area and elsewhere so it might be a candidate for replacement. It might jolt people paying so much for these new machines to be told that you would save so much money in 5 years of use, you could afford a new machine when it failed. I don't know the comparrison of costs today versus the early 60s.

I Googled alodyne. That is some process. I think a treatment that alters the surface of the aluminum would have a better chance of lasting. Any coating like epoxy could develop spot failures that could actually trap and hold moisture against the metal, hastening what you are trying to prevent.

Thank you for this educational post. I'm glad my newer machines are Mieles.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

The cylinder has issues too. Is it me or does this seem like its not totally SS

 

[supremewhirlpol]

The SS on my Primus is better than this!!

Yes, I looked at alodyne, but the process would not take care of isolating the spider from conducting current. Coal Tar Epoxy does, but it won't last forever, and use more than one coat.

Either way Korean horsesh#t + alodyne or Korean horsesh%t + coal Tar epoxy still gives you some sort of horsesh&t. There is no easy way of getting around it except using decent construction materials and DESIGN!

 

[wiskybill]

thinking out loud......

Would it be possible to have the spider coated like a dishwasher rack?
Might also serve to isolate it from the drum.

 

[dj-gabriele]

Gosh!
I already didn't like LG for whitegoods but after seeing those photos I'm never going to even consider the most remote idea of getting a machine of theirs!

Thank you very much for this fantastic contribution!

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Gabriele:
Run!! Run while you can. Horsey LGs will attempt to back kick you and defecate on the very floor that it sits on. Don't stand too close it might give you rabies or something. Now that I'm looking at the front of him again, He looks kinda crazy.

 

[fordtech]

That is definitely the rustiest stainless I think I have seen unless that is just rust colored washer poop on it..

 

[3beltwesty]

The stainless drum is probably a low grade stainless with the minimum about of chromium to be classified as a stainless steel. 409 is like this and used for mufflers. 409 is 10.5 to 11.7 percent Chromium, 430 is 16 to 18 percent and costs more but looks better and is used with range hoods. Both are magnetic.

 

[3beltwesty]

It seems all the modern front loaders today use a stainless basket and a cast aluminum spider.

In another thread somebody shows a Miele front loader with a spider that looks non cast; or maybe it is not aluminum.

The old 1960's through early 1990's 3 belt westy has just a big steel hub where a left handed 25mm diameter shaft #5303261165 is held with two 6205 bearings and one seal. This type of machine was sold by white westinghouse, Gibson, Frigidaire, Sears/Kelvinator, Tappan etc.

The same steel hub design morphed to the single belt model with variable speed motor. It uses the same rubber boot, deflector ring, but different pump.

There us not really a household new washer today that does not have the aluminum spider design.

The rotating basket is in BLUE in the 1976 WWH brochure. The sketch has some errors, the back two ribs should be in purple and are the fixed outer tub. The oval pulley is in yellow it makes the basket rotate about 54 to 57 rpm. The back blue pulley is at the back end of the shaft and is the spin cycle pulley of about 550 rpm.

Again every FL today for the home seems to have an aluminum spider with as stainless basket and life seems to be all over the place.

It is probably a mix of bleach; water type, number of cycles, luck of the draw.

Type in google "aluminum spider washer corrosion" and LG is mentioned less than other brand names

 

[supremewhirlpol]

If you pay high price for garbage that can't even last 5 years with normal use, I don't think luck of the draw has anything to do with it. I think LG must have used the lowest grade of materials possible. Cast Aluminum should not corrode this badly. Probably also has to do with poor preparation of the aluminum for the environment that it would be subjected to, not to mention that it is directly attached to the SS with nothing isolating the metals from one another. Horsey = LG = FAIL!

 

[3beltwesty]

The Aluminum spider directly attached to a SS drum is not just LG's method. It is used many GE, Kenmore, Frigidaire, Wascomat, Electrolux front loaders too. It is over a 10 year old design.

The web is full of Aluminum Spider failures with modern FL washers; this issue is 7 to 10 years old already.

The real question is what if any FL modern washers do not have spider issues!

At least with LG one can buy the spider as a separate part for 80 bucks; the scam by the other brands was often you have to buy the entire drum with spider.

Thus the marketing guys sucker in folks with a long warranty period for the SS drum; but the less Noble Aluminum spider is the sacrificial anode that breaks and it is not under warranty.

In some of the non LG brands the SS drum with spider was often 400+ bucks years ago thus the washer was not worth fixing.

When one types in "front load spider" in Google; Kenmore, Sears and Frigidaire have boatloads of failures; LG takes several pages to find one. Even Whirlpool and Amana and Maytag get named too. If it is the same metal on metal design LG's should fail too; like the one you just fixed. It might be that less LG's are out there; and they are newer too.

The old Neptune FL's have a plastic washer. Maybe these guys did not cheat in Chemistry class?

In my household stuff that when under salt water in Katrina; stuff with two different metals had one disappear in a few days to weeks.

With a ferric type SS drum and a cast Aluminum spider; the aluminum SHOULD corrode when placed in a solution. Any engineer knew this 100 years ago.

If one shows this to an engineer 100 years ago they might place a sacrificial Zinc piece to "save" the Alumimum; but that would involve somebody who has some common sense and spending an extra 2 dollars.

The whole issue of corroded aluminum spiders hit the web over 7 years ago; after issues with the new FL washers flaws surfaced. With some of the Sear Kenmore FL's the drum has a screw that pierces the outer plastic drum when the spider fails. Thus not only do you have to buy the SS drum and spider; you have to buy a new tub too. Thus the machine goes into a landfill.

There is a lot of variability in how long the newer home FL washers last. There are folks with some dying in 2 years with corroded spiders and some still running after 10 years.

Cast Aluminum is very poor with corrosion; it is porous thus it has huge surface area exposed to the liquid. One has the huge unknown of folks water hardness, if and how much bleach, detergent type; whether the door was left open; temperature; even the basics like the number of loads washed.

There are so many unknowns that spider failures are all over the place. There are folks with modern FL washers who use them normally with no massive failures in 7 years; with the same models that are all over Google as dying in a few years with some folks.


With the 1976 WWH 3 belt FL washer; it's front 6205 bearing's cage broke in 2005; thus I rebiult it. It ran 29 years with just pump and one clutch spring replaced. On another thread on this site somebody says they rust out in a few years; another says they break down a lot.

Thus even with old washers one has a wide range of variability in lives and problems.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

3beltwesty:
Did you read my post above? Please tell me what you think this thread is about.

 

[3beltwesty]

I read the thread.

You found one LG washer that has bad bearings and corrosion but have concluded that:

"If you pay high price for garbage that can't even last 5 years with normal use, I don't think luck of the draw has anything to do with it. I think LG must have used the lowest grade of materials possible. Cast Aluminum should not corrode this badly. Probably also has to do with poor preparation of the aluminum for the environment that it would be subjected to, not to mention that it is directly attached to the SS with nothing isolating the metals from one another. Horsey = LG = FAIL!"

Thus the question is how do you feel about GE/Kenmore FL washers that failed in shorter time periods like 2 to 4 years?

These have been documented on the web 100 times more than LG's; but you ignore them and blast LG.

A lay reader will read your bias and conclude that LG is worse than other brands that have many orders of magnitude more failures than LG's. The poor consumer has little to go by. There are really few LG failures documented on the web like yours; and boatloads with other brands.

The web is full of all the other FL brands that have corroded Aluminum spiders too; and many are shorter than your 5 year comment. The other brands have spider's failing in sometimes 3 to 4 years; thus your LG failure is just in line with the rest of the pack of Aluminum spiders failing.

All the consumer brands of FL washers use an Aluminum spider design; thus your LG failure is right in line with the whole pack of FL washers and nothing new to FL washers.

It is great you documented the repair with such nice comments and detailed images.

By the tone of your comment:

"I don't think luck of the draw has anything to do with it. I think LG must have used the lowest grade of materials possible."

You feel LG has poor Aluminum versus the rash of GE/Kenmore FL washer's Aluminum spider failures that are all over the web.

Thus I am puzzled because I have taken part GE/Kenmores that died in a few years and the spider was totally gone compared to your LG in the photos.

Repairclinic 8 years ago had few SS drums and spiders for modern FL washers. Today all the brands have SS drums and Aluminum spiders as spare parts; since the spider does fail in about all models.

Look at that SS drum to Aluminum spider on about all brands and they are directly connected; and not isolated like the old Neptunes. This sets up that the Aluminum will corrode. LG is not alone in this matter. Connecting the SS drum to the Aluminum spider seems like the most common method with modern FL's.

There is a huge variability to these spider failures. A friend has a Whirlpool Duet from 2001 and all it has required is a pump. Another one locally broke its spider after 4 years. It was bought after Katrina. Fatigue and corrosion are like this.

Here I am not sure that LG is really worse than other FL washers since there are not many well documented like yours.

In the other brands the failed FL washers spider looked link the one in the link below

With the other non brands there are many more data points; BUT it is only the folks that have ones fail that document them.

What basis do you have that the LG design is worse than all the other consumer FL washers? You have one sample and the web has hundreds of the other brands that fail like this:

 

[3beltwesty]

Hey; deeply appreciate your excellent documentation of the LG washer.

I just ponder if folks feel that the LG is really worse than other brands; like this typical FL spider failure below:

An associate had one like this six years ago ; at that time one could only buy the SS drum and spider as an assembly and it was about 400 bucks thus the FL got scrapped. Like this guys video the drum's screw pierced the tub.

http://www.appliancejournal.com/app...pair/why-kenmore-front-load-washers-fail-271/

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Looks like you don't fully understand what this thread is about. Not only is this thread about the repair process, and what a pain it is to work on these, it is also about the use of cheap construction materials in LG machines. This thread is ONLY about LG machines. This thread has nothing to do with other brands. Yes, I know about the Kenmores, the Duets, the GE's the Frigi's having spider failures and that you have to buy both the spider and the cylinder. Yes there is lots of info on the web about those, but little info about these, let alone how to tear one down. Reasons why the spider failed, we can go on and on about. What really annoys me off about the whole situation is that you cannot even get the machine apart without damaging or ruining something. Yes, most modern FL machines do use spiders, with the exception of Speed Queen commercial home use FL machines.

 

[3beltwesty]

To replace the two bearings and seal on any old or new FL washer is normally a lot of labor; 1/2 days work or more.

Is there any FL you have replaced that involved little labor compared to an LG?

The construction and materials used is very similar on many modern FL washers; thus saying LG is cheap when it uses the same SS drum and same Aluminum spider; same tub material sounds somewhat biased with no rational basis.

Most FL washers today use the same materials for the tub halves; drum and spiders.

From an engineering standpoint if you mentioned that LG used an XYZ alloy and Whirlpool used a ABC alloy for the spider; then there is a real basis for a bias.

From an engineering standpoint "cheap" is a very poor word since it has many different meanings. It means low cost to some; low quality to others,and both to yet another group too. Thus in actual engineering work this word is taboo.

A lay reader of this thread might read your comments about LG using "cheap materials" ; and guess wrongly that the other brands actually use anything better. By not wanting to mention the other brands you stack the deck against LG and prop up other brands with the same exact design and material flaws. Thus some comparing helps folks understand LG versus the others.

Most folks who read a thread like this ponder if the other brand uses a better design or better materials. The bulk of folks want a machine to last a long time and not require a major rebuild in 5 years.

I really see almost nothing in your images that makes a LG any "cheaper" in quality than all the other consumer/home grade FL brands being hawked; except that hokey screw. Most FL washers sold today in the USA are built like this; thus what specific items to LG are "cheap" compared to the others? I did see the hokey screw that got ruined!

Once the seal leaks the 52100 bearing material rusts to the shaft and is often very stubborn to remove. With some I have had to use PB Nut blaster and also Kano Kroil penetrating fluids; do a mess of tapping and wait. It is a mess.

Kroil works better than PB nutblaster; worlds better than WD40 to unstuck stubborn metal to metal parts. I am not sure it if is good around all plastics; thus use caution.

With some Alum spider to SS drums I have seen where one has to grind off the bolts.

Here is an LG washer spider used in the UK; a kit with spider,seals, and bearings:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/WASHING-MACHINE-bearing-spider-1002D/dp/B0035DFX6K

 

[supremewhirlpol]

3beltwesty:
If you don't like my descriptions or terminology, YOU CAN KICK ROCKS!!! When I actually see repair and tear-down guides that YOU actually take the time and energy to carry out and POST to THIS site, then and ONLY then will I actually consider what you have to say. I AM FINISHED DISCUSSING ANY AND ALL MATTERS WITH YOU. Like I say LG = FAIL!!

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Prepare the spider:
I prepare the spider by covering the shaft and leaving just a little exposed at the base.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Clean the metal. I use 150 git sand paper and sand the spider lightly.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Next I apply degreaser to clean the metal from oils touching it, metal fragments, etc.