turquoisedude
Well-known member
Of course I had to demonstrate the '63 Frigidaire washer for him. Phil had never seen a multi-matic up close - 'till now!
Fifty-Six Fridge Failure!
- Thread starter turquoisedude
- Start date
turquoisedude
Well-known member
Well, on Sunday I figured it was time to get some testing done... I wanted to test the fan motor, so I started by removing the wires from the relay.
I was not pleasantly surprised by the condition of the wires... I was not eager to try testing the fan with insulation this brittle!
I was not pleasantly surprised by the condition of the wires... I was not eager to try testing the fan with insulation this brittle!
turquoisedude
Well-known member
I mustered up my courage, taped the wires that I could see, and hooked up a capacitor as described in the testing procedures that Steve posted here.
turquoisedude
Well-known member
I didn't expect this - the fan motor started!
I was actually disappointed because this meant something else was the problem...
I was actually disappointed because this meant something else was the problem...
turquoisedude
Well-known member
So, what next?? The list was now narrowed down to a problem with the relay, overload protector, or something that I hadn't really thought about - the resistor. Phil suggested that I test it with an ohm-meter. I started to remove the resistor and I was surprised at what happened here. The green wire just crumbled off in my fingers!
turquoisedude
Well-known member
Exhibit 'A'
The end of the resistor where the wire snapped from showed signs of high heat and actually still smelled 'burnt'... Note the darkened spots on the end of the resistor.
The end of the resistor where the wire snapped from showed signs of high heat and actually still smelled 'burnt'... Note the darkened spots on the end of the resistor.
turquoisedude
Well-known member
Probable cause
So, I think this resistor is the reason why my LW-11 doesn't run. According to the documentation posted here, an open resistor will cause the overload protector to trip and prevent the refrigerator from starting.
That being the case, can this resistor be replaced?? I am going to guess the exact GE part has been de-listed since they stopped making DeSotos - if anyone has an idea of what I could use as a replacement here, please let me know!
So, I think this resistor is the reason why my LW-11 doesn't run. According to the documentation posted here, an open resistor will cause the overload protector to trip and prevent the refrigerator from starting.
That being the case, can this resistor be replaced?? I am going to guess the exact GE part has been de-listed since they stopped making DeSotos - if anyone has an idea of what I could use as a replacement here, please let me know!
philr
Well-known member
With all those washers around me, It's a shame I didn't think about washing my own shirt after unloading the dirty fridge!
I'm guessing you found your problem with the GE fridge! The green stuff on the wire looks like corrosion, which should explain why the wire overheated and snapped!
Did you find the value of the resistor? You should find a replacement at Addison too.
I'm guessing you found your problem with the GE fridge! The green stuff on the wire looks like corrosion, which should explain why the wire overheated and snapped!
Did you find the value of the resistor? You should find a replacement at Addison too.
turquoisedude
Well-known member
It's not really clear, Phil... The manual refers to a .6 ohm ('small') and a 2 ohm ('large') resistor and I can't really tell which one mine is. There is some writing on the ceramic casing, but I can't read it. Dang....
philr
Well-known member
I know it refers to both! That's why I was hoping you'd see something written on it! Did you bring it with you in Montreal?
westingman123
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2009
- Messages
- 1,541
Paul! Tell Hubby that is a VERY improper use of a Club skillet. Naughty, naughty. I think you get custody of another vintage appliance for that!
turquoisedude
Well-known member
Keith: hubby clearly mis-interpreted the word 'Club' on the skillet... LOL
Phil: yes, I brought the resistor back to town with me. Maybe my parts guy on Ontario St. will be able to help....
Phil: yes, I brought the resistor back to town with me. Maybe my parts guy on Ontario St. will be able to help....
norgeway
Well-known member
I will bet!
The resistor is NOT bad, just the wire burned off, You mat be able to test it and see what the ohm rating is, I would say any reputable appliance repairman could tell you in a few minutes. then you could get a new one.
The resistor is NOT bad, just the wire burned off, You mat be able to test it and see what the ohm rating is, I would say any reputable appliance repairman could tell you in a few minutes. then you could get a new one.
norgeway
Well-known member
Tell Hubby!
My hubby has NEVER raised a Club pot to me....He would hate to bend up good cookware!!
My hubby has NEVER raised a Club pot to me....He would hate to bend up good cookware!!
turquoisedude
Well-known member
Hans: I did test the resistor and it tested bad (open) unfortunately...
turquoisedude
Well-known member
OMG - could this be THE part??
Just for the heck of it, I was trolling on eBay looking for a manual or other service information when I saw this! Any thoughts or recommendations? Should I just buy and hope for the best?? Please, if anyone can provide any guidance here, I am eager to hear from you...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-GE-...212?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ae4910a2c
Just for the heck of it, I was trolling on eBay looking for a manual or other service information when I saw this! Any thoughts or recommendations? Should I just buy and hope for the best?? Please, if anyone can provide any guidance here, I am eager to hear from you...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-GE-...212?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ae4910a2c
I'm with Ralph on this - worth the shot. Seeing that the ebay resistor is rated for 1/4 HP, we can cross our fingers it will work. Thankfully the instructions explain the conditions if the wrong resistor is used.
Looking forward to the next update!
Ben
Looking forward to the next update!
Ben
westingman123
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2009
- Messages
- 1,541
Yes, Paul, we're on pins and needles here! Of course, I guess we'll have to wait until the weekend, eh? Dern the luck.
turquoisedude
Well-known member
Oh Crud.... I wasn't the one who bought this....
I had to go into a meeting, so I guess I missed this one. Damn - I knew I should have bought it when I had a chance at lunch hour....
****Expletives deleted ****
Right, back to the old drawing board on this one. AAARGH!!!!
I had to go into a meeting, so I guess I missed this one. Damn - I knew I should have bought it when I had a chance at lunch hour....
****Expletives deleted ****
Right, back to the old drawing board on this one. AAARGH!!!!
cadman
Well-known member
Paul,
If I were in your shoes, I'd order both resistor sizes from a supply house like Mouser. They should only run a buck or two. I'd try the larger one first, and if it keeps tripping out like the manual above states, then I'd switch to the smaller value. The key is getting them with the proper wattage. Silica power resistors are pretty standard in terms of physical size equating to power. Mouser actually has size specs you could use to compare to yours. And it won't hurt anything to go larger in wattage. -Cory
If I were in your shoes, I'd order both resistor sizes from a supply house like Mouser. They should only run a buck or two. I'd try the larger one first, and if it keeps tripping out like the manual above states, then I'd switch to the smaller value. The key is getting them with the proper wattage. Silica power resistors are pretty standard in terms of physical size equating to power. Mouser actually has size specs you could use to compare to yours. And it won't hurt anything to go larger in wattage. -Cory
Yes, these look like basic high current resistors, the challenge is to find the resistance. If you know that, I think you do, any decent electronics supply house should have one -- for a lot less then the guy on eBay wanted...
norgeway
Well-known member
Frigidaire Pic!
The Frigidaire you got made me think of my Aunts house when i was a kid, They re modeled there kitchen in 62 and put in all Frigidaire appliances, a fridge like the one you found except coppertone and left hand door, a Compact 30 drop in range and a Custom Imperial dishwasher..I remember all of them well!
The Frigidaire you got made me think of my Aunts house when i was a kid, They re modeled there kitchen in 62 and put in all Frigidaire appliances, a fridge like the one you found except coppertone and left hand door, a Compact 30 drop in range and a Custom Imperial dishwasher..I remember all of them well!
turquoisedude
Well-known member
Progress (or lack thereof...)
Not much good to report about the GE Wall Refrigerator situation... I did get the exact model number for it though (it's an LW11N with the numbers 63 or 65 following the model number) and it looks like the resistor part number is WR52X11. BIG thanks to Mike (dishwashercrazy) for looking up those part numbers for me! Now the question is where can I find one... the one from eBay last week was the WR52X15 so I guess I shouldn't feel too bad about missing it...
Something tells me that 62 Cycla-Matic is going to be part of the kitchen for a while - wonder if I should paint it turquoise yet... LOL
Not much good to report about the GE Wall Refrigerator situation... I did get the exact model number for it though (it's an LW11N with the numbers 63 or 65 following the model number) and it looks like the resistor part number is WR52X11. BIG thanks to Mike (dishwashercrazy) for looking up those part numbers for me! Now the question is where can I find one... the one from eBay last week was the WR52X15 so I guess I shouldn't feel too bad about missing it...
Something tells me that 62 Cycla-Matic is going to be part of the kitchen for a while - wonder if I should paint it turquoise yet... LOL
fltcoils
Member
resistors
radioshack.com
NTE pn10wd62 $1.21
.62 ohm 10w
Model:10WD62 Catalog #: 55050162
6ohm 20w
use 2 of these in parallel
NTE Model:10W012 $1.21ea
10W012 12 Ohms Cermet Power Wirewound Resistor
Model:10W012 Catalog #: 55050105
radioshack.com
NTE pn10wd62 $1.21
.62 ohm 10w
Model:10WD62 Catalog #: 55050162
6ohm 20w
use 2 of these in parallel
NTE Model:10W012 $1.21ea
10W012 12 Ohms Cermet Power Wirewound Resistor
Model:10W012 Catalog #: 55050105
fltcoils
Member
sorry , you needed 2ohm
radioshack $1.21
NTE 10W2D0 - 10W 2.0 OHM 5%
Model: NTE 10W2D0
Catalog #: 55047896
and a .62 ohm @ 25 watt
NTE 25WD62 25W Cermet Power Wirewound Resistor 0.62 Ohm 5%
Model: 25WD62
Catalog #: 55050268
radioshack $1.21
NTE 10W2D0 - 10W 2.0 OHM 5%
Model: NTE 10W2D0
Catalog #: 55047896
and a .62 ohm @ 25 watt
NTE 25WD62 25W Cermet Power Wirewound Resistor 0.62 Ohm 5%
Model: 25WD62
Catalog #: 55050268
turquoisedude
Well-known member
Thank you for the information, Bill!!
Can I just clarify one thing as I am far from knowledgeable about electronics ("I'll take things I know nothing about for $800, Alex"... LOL): you mention in your first post about connecting the resistors in parallel, but I would only have one wire between the relay and compressor motor where the original resistor went.
Would I be putting both resistors in line where the original one was in this case?? I have attached a very badly-drawn diagram (I am a visual type, what can I say... )
Can I just clarify one thing as I am far from knowledgeable about electronics ("I'll take things I know nothing about for $800, Alex"... LOL): you mention in your first post about connecting the resistors in parallel, but I would only have one wire between the relay and compressor motor where the original resistor went.
Would I be putting both resistors in line where the original one was in this case?? I have attached a very badly-drawn diagram (I am a visual type, what can I say... )
fltcoils
Member
resistor substitution
Don't do anything in parallel, that was a mistake. I mistakenly thought a 6 ohm was needed, and I could only find 12 ohms, hence the comment to put 2 12s in parallel - they then would equal 6. This is irrelevant as you don't need 6 ohms.
Your manual mentions a 2 and a 0.6 ohm, yes? I was pleasantly surprised to find resistors as mentioned above.
Post# 569709, Reply# 50 suggests using the 2 ohm, and if that doesn't work try the 0.6 ohm instead.
for my part I'd try opening up the dead resistor a bit more, given it is a wire winding inside you might find a bit to connect to (only for checking).
---------------
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Don't do anything in parallel, that was a mistake. I mistakenly thought a 6 ohm was needed, and I could only find 12 ohms, hence the comment to put 2 12s in parallel - they then would equal 6. This is irrelevant as you don't need 6 ohms.
Your manual mentions a 2 and a 0.6 ohm, yes? I was pleasantly surprised to find resistors as mentioned above.
Post# 569709, Reply# 50 suggests using the 2 ohm, and if that doesn't work try the 0.6 ohm instead.
for my part I'd try opening up the dead resistor a bit more, given it is a wire winding inside you might find a bit to connect to (only for checking).
---------------
----------------
fltcoils
Member
What resistor
An interesting protection circuit. page HH-16
Current gets to the compressor "run circuit" via either the blue wire (which draws from the overheat bi-metal) OR via the resistor green wire in series with the "auxillary winding" inside the compressor.
If running normal, the auxillary winding / resistor allows enough bypass current to flow in them to the run winding that the overheat bi-metal doesn't heat up enough to trip.
If the compressor is just starting or is stalled due to brown out or other compressor maladys, then the impeadance in the auxillary winding is high, cutting off current in that path and forcing all "run" current to flow the bi-metal overload and hence to trip the overload if let go too long.
As said on page HH-16, your results will vary, if the resistance is too high, then the overload will trip during normal running. If too low, then it won't trip when it should during a stall.
Play around a bit and try some values. I'd go conservative (higher), but if you have brown outs you may want to choose a lower value.
Being able to measure the current in the green wire and blue wire would be a big help here.
(If the failure is not due to resistor corrosion or fracture, is due to high compressor current draw during normal run, then the resistor may pop again.)
An interesting protection circuit. page HH-16
Current gets to the compressor "run circuit" via either the blue wire (which draws from the overheat bi-metal) OR via the resistor green wire in series with the "auxillary winding" inside the compressor.
If running normal, the auxillary winding / resistor allows enough bypass current to flow in them to the run winding that the overheat bi-metal doesn't heat up enough to trip.
If the compressor is just starting or is stalled due to brown out or other compressor maladys, then the impeadance in the auxillary winding is high, cutting off current in that path and forcing all "run" current to flow the bi-metal overload and hence to trip the overload if let go too long.
As said on page HH-16, your results will vary, if the resistance is too high, then the overload will trip during normal running. If too low, then it won't trip when it should during a stall.
Play around a bit and try some values. I'd go conservative (higher), but if you have brown outs you may want to choose a lower value.
Being able to measure the current in the green wire and blue wire would be a big help here.
(If the failure is not due to resistor corrosion or fracture, is due to high compressor current draw during normal run, then the resistor may pop again.)
fltcoils
Member
If the resistor is kaput,
Then all the current constantly flows thru the bi-metal overload, via the blue wire, to the compressor run winding. That of course constantly trips the overload.
For short term test you can bypass the resistor, but there will be no overload stall protection.
Then all the current constantly flows thru the bi-metal overload, via the blue wire, to the compressor run winding. That of course constantly trips the overload.
For short term test you can bypass the resistor, but there will be no overload stall protection.
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