First timer changing belt on 1973 Kenmore C110.470200

[pixelhack]

Hi everyone,

My washer is having some trouble agitating. It will give a few agitations and then start clicking. I thought it might be due to the belt because the belt is very worn indeed. In fact I have the belt on hand because I chickened out from changing it a few years ago when I thought I would have to drop the transmission to do it.

I have done a bit of maintenance on old Kenmore dryers but this is the first major work I will do on an old washer. I have found a few threads on how to change the belt and was wondering what the drawbacks of each approach would be.

If I put the washer on its front is oil going to spill out of the transmission?

Should I try to change the belt without dropping the transmission? I read about a method where you remove the support brackets and spacer but don't drop the transmission.

Is there anything else I should do any maintenance on while I am changing the belt?

Thanks

 

[114jwh]

If the belt came in the packaging, the instructions on the back are really good. If you don't have them I've included a link below that has a picture of the back of the package along with lots of other tips. There are two methods listed, I think at some point they stopped printing the alternate method, if I ever knew I can't remember why. Whenever I've done this I've just done it using the standard method - it really isn't that bad. Yes, you will likely get a few drips of oil but it shouldn't make any difference for that little bit.

I usually take a small piece of 2x4, put a hand towel over top of it and when I lower the machine down, fashion it so the front top edge lands on the 2x4. That way its easier to pick up off the ground when you're done.

However, if its agitating for a minute and then just clicking, I would take the back panel off first and run the machine while watching the transmission area to see if you can see anything else that may cause the agitation problem. Pumps on these are notorious for seizing up after several years so if its never been replaced and you've owned it for a long time check that too.

Replacing a Kenmore 1972 washer belt.

I have a Lady Kenmore 1972 Garagedoor Keyboard Washer with a broken "thin" style belt. I was talking to John (combo52) on Wednesday, and he says there's a way to get the belt on without doing the full transmission drop outlined in the manuals. John's been very generous with his time to me...

www.automaticwasher.org

 

[pixelhack]

Additional information

As I am cleaning up under the washer I notice a bit of pink oil on the bottom of the transmission. I can't remember if I tipped the washer on its front when I was considering changing the belt a few years ago.

The belt is very worn and there is lots of "belt stuff" and bits on the pulleys. I guess wirebrush or scotchbrite pad on the pulleys?

To get the machine to agitate I will have to fill it with water or trick the machine into thinking it is full.

Everything seems to be working except agitation. The spin works and the pump works.

 

[114jwh]

One way or another it sounds like the belt needs to be replaced but I would still try running the machine with the back off to see if you can spot something wrong.
Another thing might be to look at the wigwag. If memory serves, the agitate cam bar is on the right side. Check to make sure the electrical connection is good, the wire isn't broken and the solenoid is working when the machine goes into agitate.

The oil inside the transmission in brown so maybe the pink stuff is old detergent residue? Either way, unless there is a lot, wouldn't worry about this yet. These sometimes leak a drop or two of oil every so often.

You can make the machine agitate with no water a few different ways. Many of these, (or at least Canadian machines) use the same timer for suds and non-suds machines. Assuming yours is not a suds-saver machine, there may be a blank spot on the timer dial just before the normal cycle (or super cycle if yours has that). If you turn on this machine at that spot it will sometimes start agitating with no water. There are also sometimes some other hidden spots on the timer that will do this same thing. Otherwise, I believe you can disconnect the clear plastic water level tube from the control and blow into it with the machine on.

 

[DADoES]

 
Worn belt ... is spin performance, acceleration rate impaired? Perhaps a photo of the belt for reference on its condition? Or a video of the problem happening*?

Does the clicking occur only during agitation, not spin or neutral drain?

Clicking during agitation ... does the agitation action stop or become erratic with the clicking?  A badly-worn belt will slip and agitation speed may reduce accordingly but it wouldn't ordinarily cause a clicking noise.

A broken or weak spring in the transmission can cause the the agitation gears to slip in/out of drive-contact and a clicking kind of noise may result.

*Videos cannot be attached/uploaded into a post like a photo.  Videos must be placed at an online sharing service and linked with a URL in the post.  The board software recognizes standard YouTube URLs pasted into a post and automatically embeds the video.

 

[repairguy]

It’s time for a gearcase rebuild. The agitator gear is jumping in and out of place. Could be the spring on top of it is broken or the oil has turned to mud or both. Changing the belt will not fix this issue.

 

[maytag85]

I agree with Melvin, the transmission/gear case needs to be rebuilt. The spring the pushes the agitate gear down is either worn or broken. I rebuilt mine last year and replaced the spring along with topping it off with fresh gear oil. Rebuilding a Whirlpool/Kenmore belt drive transmission is fairly easy since there isn’t very much inside but can be a bit messy with all the oil that’s in there.

 

[pixelhack]

I am lucky that the washer still has most of the original papers with it, so I have some diagrams and parts lists. Which parts would I need to rebuild the transmission? I called a couple parts houses last week and they said they have some parts for this model but not a lot. It would be a real shame if I can't get this working again.

 

[repairguy]

You’ll have to remove the gearcase and open it up to find what needs to be replaced. If water hasn’t gotten into it chances are it just needs an oil change and agitator gear spring if it’s broken. 54-56 comes as a kit with the spring and seal. The gear fork spring should probably be replaced while you’re in there as well. It’s a good idea to replace spin tube seal part 22 and also grease and oil center post bearings and replace the top seal(s) if the bearings are still in good shape. If bearings are bad they will need replacement along with a spin tube or basket drive assembly.

 

[114jwh]

Jack, that part list you have is mostly Inglis part numbers. Kenmore machines were built by Inglis in Canada at this time, using Whirlpool designs under license. Some parts were fabricated directly by Inglis in their factory and these have the longer part numbers on your list. Those parts that were sourced from Whirlpool have the more common shorter part numbers. When Inglis was fully absorbed by Whirlpool in the 80's/90's this practice ended.

You will likely need to find the Whirlpool part numbers to have the best chance of finding these parts. Some Canadian appliance part sites may translate the part to the Whirlpool equivalent, some may not recognize them at all. I would try Amre Supply first as their database seems to often recognize both. But the good news is there are lots of posts on this site that have documented rebuilds of belt drive washers that will include part numbers for the parts that were used. Kenmore, Whirlpool and Inglis washers are all the same mechanically.

As Glenn suggested, Id still recommend posting a video showing the machine operating with the back panel off while its supposed to be agitating

 

[pixelhack]

I ran a few tests and here is what happened. The agitator seems to work fine when there are no clothes in the washer. Slowly adding clothes it took about a full loads worth before it stopped agitating. When it stopped agitating, clicking begins and you can see the top of the gear fork assembly (51) hopping up and down.



The belt is probably slipping as it is only 5mm wide now compared to 8mm width of a new belt. But at no time did I see any pulley stall.

If I can use this machine lightly loaded then I want to get through the holidays before working on it.

 

[repairguy]

It’s rebuild time.

 

[combo52]

Yes, it needs major repairs

You may be able to wash some clothes if you load it lightly and use the low speed agitation it probably won’t jump out to gear as much and then finish the cycle by respining heavy loads on the fast spin cycle so you can get a little bit more water out of the clothing.

John

 

[pixelhack]

Rebuilding transmission 1973 Kenmore C110.470200

As expected the agitator spring is broken and the transmission is full of something that once was oil. The gear fork spring leans a bit to one side but was very strong when I was taking the transmission apart. There are some crunchy bits in the oil. The part of the agitator shaft that sticks up past the seal at the top is a bit pitted, but the part where the seal sits is smooth.

Does this seem rebuildable? If not where would I look for a transmission?

I found a source for the agitator spring kit with spring shield and seal (285672).

I found a source for seal #22 in the diagram (WP91939).

I found a source for a generic spin tube (383921G), so I am hopeful that will work.

I found a source for a Centerpost Seal/Bearing Kit (285134). Most of the part numbers in the kit do not match what is in my diagrams except for the Bearing Centre-Post (WP8546455), but I am hopeful that means that some of the other stuff in the kit is usable because I can't find any seals otherwise.

No luck finding a gasket. Is Permatex gasket maker ok instead?

Is using 90 weight gear oil ok?

Taking the agitator off almost killed me until I used the 2x4 and ratchet strap method.

 

[maytag85]

That’s what the used Whirlpool transmission looked like when I cracked it open a few years ago. Considering on packing it with corn head grease for experimenting purposes and see if it’ll work in a Whirlpool transmission with leaking and compromised seals.

 

[qsd-dan]

Looks like water contamination to me. Once you clean up the gears, you'll have a better idea if they're too pitted/corroded for a rebuild.

 

[114jwh]

Are you referring to the cork transmission gasket? If so the part number is 95089 and looks like there are some on eBay.

How is the condition of the outer tub? These sometimes can rust through so I would clean it up so you can get a good look and make sure its salvageable.

As for the oil, I'll defer to the experts on that one. I do know that the OEM oil is still available, albeit expensive. PN is 350572.

The new spin tube has the agitator shaft gaskets already installed in it if I remember correctly (#22). But if you want to make it easier on yourself, get a whole new basket drive, it will have a new spintube already installed and then you have the benefit of not having to worry about something else failing in the whole assembly. Looks like its available, #2 on your diagram and a really good price on Amre Supply.

As for the transmission, I'll also defer to the experts on that one. When I rebuilt mine I just replaced the spring kit and the rest was fine

 

[maytag85]

Reply #16

I put Royal Purple 90 weight gear oil in the original transmission to my 1963 RCA Whirlpool Imperial Mark XII, has been working flawlessly for almost 2 years with no ill sounds or effects. Thought there was a issue with the transmission late last year but turns out the set screw on the transmission worked loose making a clunking sound making thinking it was the transmission but turns out the transmission pulley was working loose.

 

[combo52]

Rebuilding a Belt Dr., Whirlpool transmission

I would look for another transmission it can probably be fixed if you really wanna go to the mat with us.

It all depends what the gears look like but if they’re at all worn it’s time for a different transmission these things are still common we have so many of them around. I literally threw away 30 of them the other month I’ll never use them. They went for recycling.

You can use 70 to 90 weight oil doesn’t matter. Don’t waste your money buying it from whirlpool there’s nothing special about it. the stuff you get it an automotive store is much better than what they used in washing machines.

The main problem rebuilding this machine is keeping water out of the transmission the agitator and spin to seal areas need to be in perfect condition with new seals, etc. otherwise it’s a waste of time to rebuild. It won’t last two years if water gets in it again.

John