FL washer spin speeds - How high and for how long??

[revvinkevin]

Hello All!

I have been looking (again) at new FL washers thinking about replacing my 11 year old Frigidaire FL set (even though they are still going strong). I like the LG's but the issue of poor service or lack of service keeps coming up.

This afternoon I went to a local appliance store to take a look at the choices and had the chance to look at a play with the new offerings from Electrolux for the first time. It looks nice and I really like it. However the plastic door, while looking REALLY clean, had a plastic-on-plastic squeak when the high speed final spin was demo'd for me.

The sales person mentioned the high spin speed of 1200 RPM is maintained for the length of the spin, not just a minute or 2 as other brands do.

So my question is: Do YOU, out there in AW.org-land, know if the advertised (RPM) spin speed of other brands (LG, GE, Whirl/more, Whirl/tag, etc, etc) is maintained for the length of the spin, or does it just ramp up to that RPM for the final minute or two like my 11 year old Frigidare does???

Thanks in advance for your replies!
Kevin

 

[dj-gabriele]

Regardless of spin speed, the thing that you should know is the remaining moisture after the spin has took place: the Hotpoint Aqualits AQXGD169 manages to get down to 38% residual moisture after a 1600 rpm spin while a Miele W3985 machine at 1800 rpm would be at 43%.

In a 6 kg load that 5% difference equals at 300 more grams of water to be dried from the Miele machine.

Anyway, for the averange (EU) machine spinning at 1200 rpm the residual moisture level is from 50 to 54% of the weight of dry clothes, I don't know how that goes for US machines.
I hope this was helpful!

 

[brisnat81]

My Miele's spin at around 1200 for the first 6 minutes or so and then ramp up to max speed, 1400-1800 for the final 1.5 minutes.

 

[2drumsallergy]

Spin Performance

Hi Folks,
I have a Miele W3985WPS 1800RPM spin, I have also had two Hotpoint Aqualtis AQGD169S washers (Now returned to Hotpoint due to discoloured paint). I have read Hotpoints claimed 38% residual moisture but I can assure you my Miele definitely spins drier than any of the Aqualtis machines did for me. The Aqualtis was good though!

The picture is the first of my two Hotpoint Aqualtis AQGD169S washers.

Spin performance comes down to a number of factors; speed, drum diameter and spin duration. The wider the drum the greater the G-Force for a given RPM, the Duration at top speed is also important. My Dyson washers spin at top 1400RPM for 7 minutes this long spin and the large diameter drum gives the Dyson a spin performance slightly better than my 1800RPM Miele.

David

 

[favorit]

brisnat - W4888

sorry Nathan, I can't help ... I' m very curious
In the washing times thread you mentioned your miele w4888. Never seen here in EU ... 4888 ... uhm ... is it the navitronic model of the EU 4000 serie - the TOL model of US 48XX big machines - an AU market only model ? very curious

Carlo

 

[revvinkevin]

Looking for info on US spec machines.....

Yes I know the % of water remaining in the cloths after washing does effect the drying times, but that is not something they advertise or publish here in the US (from what I have seen).

Also I'm looking a large(er) capacity US spec machine. The Euro spec machines, aside from having very few choices, are just too small and too expensive for my needs. The highest spin speed I have seen on the larger washers here is 1300 or 1400 RPM and that is only on the TOL (read $$$) models.

 

[brisnat81]

Hi Carlo,

Am I bad, I should've said W2888, the T4888C is the horrible matching condensor dryer.

Cheers

Nathan

 

[favorit]

thanks

I' ve seen that in AU you've the same machines as here in EU.
Wonder why in the US they don't sell the AllerWash/MedicWash

 

[joe_in_philly]

My 5.5 year old Kenmore HE3t (sister to the Duet) will maintain the top speed of 1200rpm for 2.5 minutes for most cycles. If the extended spin option is selected, it will spin at the top speed for up to 4.25 minutes. If a lower final spin speed is selected, it will spin at that speed for a longer period of time.

Joe

 

[revvinkevin]

Thank you Joe!!

Anyone else here have any info on the LG, Maytag (or is it Samsung?), GE, Electrolux, frigidaire or other FL washers sold here in the US?

 

[appnut]

Joe, good to see you. Glad you joined here!!!

 

[passatdoc]

Frigidaire 2140

On Heavy Cycle with "Maximum" spin speed selected, final spin 12 minutes, and it ramps up to full speed (about 1000 rpm) for the last six minutes or so. Our retarded American controls do not allow us to select an actual rpm speed, but rather "high", "medium", or "low"...and the definition of high, medium, or slow depends on the cycle selected. High speed on Heavy is higher than high speed on Gentle or Perm Press. They just don't tell you what those numbers are!!

1000 rpm gives pretty good water extraction, even though in USA we never get any stats about water extraction. But having used Bosch and Miele machines in Europe, water extraction seems comparable. As has been discussed here many times, the larger tub diameter of US machines means greater centrifugal force than a smaller European tub at the same spin speed, because the force is proportional to the SQUARE of the radius. A 20 percent larger US tub will produce 1.2 x 1.2 = 1.414 times the force of a European tub spinning at equal speeds. As a result, 1000 or 1200 on a big machine will give more or less equal results to a smaller machine doing 1400 or 1600.

 

[favorit]

Euro DUETS data

Passatdoc, you're right.

In the link below there is the DREAMSPACE AWM 8900 data sheet

Sorry, it's the italian Whirlsite ... the Brit one has less data.

This washer spins @ 1200 rpm and leaves 50% residual moisture
As comparison, a standard 5kg Miele (W830) also spinning @ 1200 rpm leaves 52% res. moist.

PS Don't be shocked by the required 160 mins to run the standard 140°F cottons wash ;-)

http://www.whirlpool.it/app.cnt/whr/it_IT/pageid/pgproddtl001/catid/3/subcatid/11/prodid/26557

 

[favorit]

Maxy 100 - the european semi commercial Duet

it has both hot and cold fill. 1000 rpm and 54% residual moisture
(data sheet says 61%, is a mistake, as it's worse than the other eurosized whirlies spinning @ 1000 rpm)

http://www.whirlpool.it/app.cnt/whr/it_IT/pageid/pgproddtl001/catid/3/subcatid/11/prodid/26558

 

[passatdoc]

Favorit....US washers (and now even Mieles built for the US market) have cold and hot water fill. Always have. Top loaders never had heaters so you could not wash above the temperature of the hot water line. Front loaders are sold with or without heater...my Frigidaire (Electrolux) 2140 does NOT have a heater. So my hot water line is about 65 C and that is the hottest I can wash normally...if I had to wash at 75 C I could do so by temporarily turning up the thermostat on the central hot water heater, but that wastes energy by heating 160 liters of water up to 75 C when the machine doesn't need that much hot water.

US front loaders with heaters only utilize the heater if the user selects a temperature above the temperature of the hot water supply. As our electricity supply in the household is usually 120V, heating is pretty slow, but it is heating from the hot water supply, not from the cold water line as in Europe.

US homes often have 240V outlets in two locations: in the kitchen for an electric range or stove or oven, and in the laundry area for an electric dryer. My kitchen has a gas pipe and only a 120V outlet, so I use a gas range...if I wanted to cook with electricity I would have to have some expensive rewiring performed.

The laundry area of my home has both a gas pipe, a 120V plug, and a 240V plug, but I use a gas dryer because it costs much less to operate (when I bought the home 20 years ago, the cost of drying with gas was 25% of the cost of electric drying). The 240V plug has never been used.

Until recently, Miele washers sold in the US used 240V. Since many US homes have only ONE 240 V plug in the laundry area, intended for the dryer. Miele made a special adapter that allowed one to plug in both a washer and a dryer, but only one machine could be used at once, if I recall correctly. I suppose I could have plugged in a Miele into the 240V plug and then have used a non-Miele gas dryer (example: Bosch) that requires only 120V electricity.

Miele is now revising their machines to run on 120V to widen their appeal to consumers who don't want to make expensive electricity modifications (in one town near me, the new building laws forbid having 240V plugs in laundry areas to encourage use of less expensive natural gas...these new homes have only a gas pipe and 120V in the laundry room).

As a special treat, click on the link below....one of the most famous scenes ever from American television and it is featured in the film "Pretty Woman". En italiano....

 

[passatdoc]

And don't forget this one...mama mia!!

 

[launderess]

Even Miele Washers Sold In The US

That ran on 220v, had to have both "hot" and "cold" hoses hooked up. One could run them via a "Y" connector if one wished, but both taps had to be used. Wasn't sure why, but when our Miele was installed the tech stated so and Miele customer service repeated the fact.

Some early Miele models sold in the United States (the W1000 series, and W1918, could run on 120v only, but for the most part by the later production cycle of the 1900 series, all machines were 220v only.

Considering electric rates are much higher than either gas or oil in our area, rarely do cold fills when washing in warm, hot or boiling. Rather will fill with warm, and either wash at that temp, or heat up to 120F or 140F. On the very rare occasions one needs to "boil wash" , what cannot be done via the Lessiveuse on the range, will pre-wash in cold and fill with hot water straight from the tap.

Despite what is said here and over on THS, when my Miele fills with say "120F" water from the taps, it does NOT cool down by the time the washer finishes it's rather long wash cycle. I know this because will turn the temperature dial to 120F after the machine has filled, and leave it there. If the temp drops below the set temp, the thermostat will sense this and turn on the heaters. There is a very distinct sound when this happens, as when the thermostat turns the heater off, and am here to tell you the washer does not start heating water.

 

[favorit]

@ Launderess and Passatdoc

Yes, I knew about hot and cold fill and wattage issues with low voltage...
I gave you those links as these W have the same size of Duets and there you can compare residual moisture with the standard eurosized whirlpools
Euro Duets are cold fill only, the Maxy 100 is an exception

Here "green" sense leads more and more consumers to want hot&cold fills. Zanussi-E'lux tries it again, Miele now makes even a "cheap" H&C fill model beside the usual "allwater" one

Power - In Italy in the past we had similar wattage issues with old German appliances. Here most homes can rely on max 3000W, in order to have cheaper bills (due to a special, lower tax rate). Vintage German W and DW had somewhat 3000W or more heating elements, so while ONE of these was running only fridge, tv set and some lights could be used.
My home had 6000W availablity to run both DW and W in the meanwhile.
Modern appliances (and vintage italian) have 2000 W heating elements and this helps to solve.

Even we are a bit OT ... I enjoy a lot such threads as this one. While talking about washers we share our histories and cultures. That's great to understand each other beyond commonplaces

Carlo

PS Passatdoc, those vintage vids with Lucy in post w.war Italy are quite funny

 

[passatdoc]

Carlo, the I Love Lucy episode was filmed during the fifth season of I Love Lucy, during which they make a tour of Europe (Ricky's band plays concerts in Europe and the wives get to come along for free). The episode was called "Lucy's Italian Movie" and is one of the four or five most beloved and famous episodes. Many people here call it "the wine vat episode".

A brief synopsis of the plot....Lucy arrives on a train in Roma. A strange man watches her in her train compartment from the corridor of the train. He introduces himself as "Vittorio Felipe" (obviously based on Vittorio de Sica), an Italian film director. He asks Lucy if she is interested in a part in his new film which he is making in Roma. Of course Lucy says "yes".

She sees an article about the film in an Italian magazine and learns that the name of the film is "Grappolo Pungente" or "bitter grapes". She mistakenly assumes that the film is about the wine industry of Italy and travels to the last town in Italy ("Turo") where they still make wine the old way by stomping the grapes with their feet. This is where she gets into trouble with the other wine worker and comes home covered in purple grape juice. The wine worker was named Teresa Tirelli, she was an immigrant from Italy, and she did work in the wine industry of Northern California.

When Lucy arrives back at the hotel, she discovers that Mr. Felipe is waiting to meet with her. He is shocked by her appearance and explains that the title of the film was merely symbolic, and that the film is not at all about the wine industry of Italy.

In addition, he explains that her film part was to play a typical American tourist visiting Italy. Since the filming will be the next day IN COLOR, they cannot risk using Lucy since her red hair is now purple, and he offers the part to her friend Ethel, saying "you are a typical American tourist if I ever saw one."

They tried to recreate the feel of a 1950s de Sica film, the only things missing were Anna Magnani or Marcello Mastroianni. Notice they purposely refer to Ingrid Bergman, who was living in Italy with Rossellini at the time.

As I explained, some towns in California, where electricity costs twice as much as cheaper areas of USA, require that new houses have only a natural gas pipe and no 240V plug in the laundry room. This forces people to buy gas dryers, which cost about $50 extra but quickly pay for themselves with lower costs. Evidently we have abundant natural gas supplies but electricity costs a lot to generate.

I never used to think that we were being particularly "green" by using central hot water in our washers, but I suppose it's more economical than heating every wash load with a 3000W heater from cold water line temperatures. Our water heaters are very well insulated. Outside of winter, where the gas bill increases due to heating the home, the monthly gas bill for us (two persons) is about $12-14 per month, to heat laundry water, hot water for baths, stove cooking, and oven cooking. Not too bad at all. The electric bill is usually $32 per month, to run lights, electronics, refrigerator, and electric motors of washer and dryer. (oh yeah we have a 400 liter aquarium as well....).

My understanding is that most washers now being sold in USA are front loaders...at least it is true where I live. However, most of these buyers had top loaders until now. So the idea of not having a heater is not so crazy to them, since their former top loaders did not have heaters. An integrated heater is often viewed as a "luxury" feature that is nice to have but not a necessity.

I suppose heating the already hot water 10 or 20 more degrees with the 120V heater is not as bad as heating cold water to 80 C as is done in Europe, but if my present washer died, i would replace it with another washer without heater...I just don't need it, and the water heater sits next to the washer, so there is plenty of hot water.

Another example of technology that is "normal" for Europe but "luxury" in USA is convection fans in ovens. Most if not all ovens in Europe have them. In USA, it's an excuse to add $200 to the price (for a fan....) because it is a "European luxury feature".