FL WASHERS and BAD MOLD SMELLS; when did you 1st hear about this issue?

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First Heard of Mold, Etc, On This Site

also one other, a commercial page called TheHomeSite or somesuch, back in 2005 when I was looking for a FL machine to replace my 27 year old JC Penney (GE/Hotpoint) top loader. I had no particular knowledge of front-loaders at that point, just thought it'd be cool. I thought I would buy another GE because of how well mine had lasted.

I found out pretty quick that it was ten years too late to get a good quality GE machine of any kind, and also that the GE front loader was a rebadged Frigidaire, and was offered by Fridigaire and Kenmore at lower prices. (the "fridGEmore)"

This was back in the middle of the hooraw about Maytag Neptune machines, and everybody had a lot to say. Also, the cracking tub spider and the $400 tub bearings of the fridGEmore was evident at that time as well.

I bought the next generation fridGEmore (big square door with round window) from Sears as a Kenmore model along with the dryer that matched it. I have been paranoid ever since about mold and stuff like that, so I leave the washer door wide open when not in use, and remove the detergent tray entirely. I use only powder detergents and only white vinegar as a fabric softener. I sop up water that is left in the boot after the last load. I don't use chlorine bleach more than twice in a month. (all these things I learned here, and at the other place) And so far it works. There is no odor. There are no roaring sounds when spinning. It's able to spin eventually every time.

I hope that by the time the washer wears out, I won't be doing laundry any more.
We'll see.
 
Re materials on older machines.

Thanks for the link.

Here the old 1947 and 1976 machines had steel tubs and steel spin baskets each is covered with porcelain. The 1976 that I still have has a piece of plastic in the tub's sump about 5x7 x 1/8 inches that looks like polypropylene; the pump body is maybe the same. The two spin basket blue fins are maybe nylon. The deflector shield might be nylon or pp. About the only non steel covered porcelain parts are the pump's rubber impeller and the tub to tub front rubber gasket. There is no aluminum at all to corrode, but one has steel that can rust; if the porcelain fails.
 
In 2004 when I got my Duet washer, I hadn't heard of this forum or researched anything about them. It was spur of the moment. I didn't read the instructions and I remember being shocked with the small amount of water it used........

Common sense told me to leave the door cracked........From day one I always have, before ever having read anything about mold problems or anything...There is no mold or odor in my machine at all. I always wash in warm or hot though and I use LCB with the whites.......

If you're in the dark and shine a flashlight straight down in the washer you can see the outer tub and the heating element. It looks spic n span.

I sometimes use liquid fabric softener but not that much. I don't see any build up at all.
 
So since older Porcelain steel American Front Load machines had *ZERO* mold smells for 1/2 century; what makes a new 1990+ American Front Loader so smelly?

In the photos above; the outer tub of that newer type Front loader looks like plastic.

Thus I wonder again why for 1/2 century Americans did not have to "To truely get rid of it the machine has to be taken apart and scrubbed.".

If somebody tomorrow has trailer hitch ball odor, or mailbox odor, or toaster odor the logical question comes up of why theses were "not issues at all" with older designs.

This is why this new problem is so interesting to me. We never had the problem or even heard of it for 1/2 century; then some new mid 1990's Front Loaders smell like an open sewer to some.

In order to fix an issue one has to admit there is one. Some newer American front loaders have had smell and mold issues; when the prior 1/2 century of older designs had ZERO issues.

The new ones that get mold smells have some type of design issues; ie maybe due to more plastics, aluminum that corrodes, water that collects in boots,

This is really classical "redesign failure" by golden lads. They look at an old design and improve it in some ways; but flop/failure to understand subtle design features. ie an American Front loader from 1942 did not require all the cleaning and care like some of today's modern units. If this was a car, maybe a 2012 car would have glove box odors and a 1942 would not! ie a 70 year old machine did not have these issues; and today the newer design has issues that did not ever exist
 
They look at an old design and improve it in some ways

Design changes mostly drive down the cost of materials and manufacturing. IMHO of course.
 
2004, on the internet

In 2004, I owned a TL GE, but some friends had sold their home with the washer/dryer as part of the deal, and needed to select a laundry pair for their new home. In their eyes, I was a bit of an expert on appliances, having updated my kitchen appliances in 2001, and they used my advice to select appliance for the kitchen they were renovating (completely gutted the kitchen) in the new home. Duets had been introduced recently, but the market leader were the Maytag Neptunes. Online, I learned about the issues with mold and the wax motors, and that there was a class action lawsuit from early buyers. However, it also seemed that Maytag had rectified these issues by 2004. Fast forward to today, their nearly seven year old pair still works great, has never been serviced. They do keep the door open when not using the washer, and they wipe the gasket dry at the end of the day.

I did not own a FL until March 2006. However, I benefited from numerous trips to Europe, where I usually was a guest in friends' homes. I noticed that everyone left their washer doors open when not in use, and adopted that aspect of appliance care from Day One of ownership of my own FL.

I did use liquid detergents for the first year or so, though I used a dispenser ball and avoided the dispenser drawer. After this initial supply was used up, I switched to HE powders and have continued to do this for the past three years or so. I run at least one Hot load per week and never wash in Cold, partly because my FL lacks ATC (and ambient cold water line temp is "too cold"). Most of my loads are on Warm, but I use Hot for towels and underwear/t-shirts.

My washer sits in a garage which can exceed 90 F in summer, but I've never had mold odors. The door is ajar at all times when not in use, and I always wipe the gasket dry at the end of the last load of the day. I suspect many of the problems people have with FLs (mold, vibration, poor cleaning action) are due to their inexperience with FLs, it's as if they just learned to drive a car for the first time.
 
@3beltwesty

I vaguely remember as a child seeing slant front washers (most likely, Westinghouses) in a few neighbors' laundry areas when playing with friends at their houses. This would be circa 1960-61 before I started school. I don't remember if the owners left their doors ajar when the machine was not in use. I agree with you that the switch to plastic outer tubs by some brands is part of the problem. However, none of my friends in Europe (with everything from discount brands all the way to Miele) ever closes the door of their washers when not in use. This seems to be near-universal practice in Europe.

Another issue with doors may be safety-related in families with small kids. If the laundry area cannot be secured, the machine really isn't safe around little kids. My FL has a safety-lock override, where you cannot operate the machine without pushing the correct button sequence, but that won't stop kids from trying to open the door and explore inside. There is still a chance of a kid climbing inside, a sibling closing the door, and the kid suffocating if not strong enough to kick the door open. I have friends in Philly who eventually bought a Frig 2940 and LOVE it, but their upstairs laundry room has a locking door, so mom can keep the kids out when she is not using the room. Some homes feature laundry areas in an alcove or closet off the kitchen (convenient for multitaskers) but not safe if there are small kids in the house since access to the machines cannot be restricted.
 
About the shining the flashlight in the tub with the room dark; that wasn't my idea......I actually read someone suggested doing that to check the heating element. I can't remember where I read it......But you have to do it a certain way or you can't see it......

U have to point the flashlight straight down and hold it down onto the washer drum so that there is no reflection and you can see the element and the outer tub. It also helps if the room is totally dark as well.
 
Not until I joined this forum....

...had I ever heard of 'smelly washer' syndrome with front loaders.

 

I've mentioned earlier that it appears to be both a recent and (generally) North American problem that I believe is caused by:

 

- liquid detergents; and

- overdosing of fabric softeners...

 

...and exacerbated by closing the doors on machines when not in use.

 

If people went back to powdered detergents, reduced the amount of softener they used AND left the door ajar between uses, the problem would not exist....

 

It's as simple as that....
 
Glad you're bringing up this topic...

Ever since I joined this forum I wanted to share with you guys my experience with mould or less dramatically musty smells... and now it's the finest time to do so.
I've been surrounded by FL washers my entire life (I’m almost 37 now) and I never even remotely thought of the possibility of having a mould smelling washing machine... as I've always thought of them as being the antichrist of bacteria! Yet, I have heard of this phenomenon which I used to conceive as absurd, in the last decade or so when reading various experiences on the Internet usually from US FL users. I got my share of that... although to a small extent, involving musty smell from my washing machine and particularly from one garment (a bathrobe) towards the end of last summer. Now I know what caused it, well, at least in my case, and I feel more open to understand this sort of claim.

The whole thing started with my bathrobe with I frequently use after a work out session at the gym (let me make it clear... it served to dry myself after a shower and not to dry the sweat off my body lol), being of a very dark colour, I was always washing it using cold or cool settings on the shortest possible cycle making sure to use a programme which foresaw 3 (or more) rinses. This was usually enough, I'd use the bathrobe over and over again until I'd feel it was due to go into the laundry basket, without having any specific reasons for doing so. Having said that, something else took place in that particular period (last summer), having occasionally washed colourfast stuff (like light colour towels, bath mat/towels, light/white laundry in general) with a bio detergent designed for use with cold water (Ariel Excel gel) which, contrary to what many ppl say, was giving me excellent cleaning results... I was so impressed by the results that I decided to use it on a more regular basis with all my wash loads (but delicate colours), including endless whites long wash cycles.

Meanwhile I realised that all the other washing detergents in my utility cabinet (I often pick up a box/bottle of washing detergent, either liquid or powder as backup) included the wording 'outstanding results as low as 15°C' so that was it: I decided to take the plunge and become a cold wash freak! Biggest mistake? Yeah... well... I obstinately tried to persuade myself that there might have been something wrong with my nose, my washing machine, my towels, my wardrobe and so forth! It didn't happen at once... first I noticed that my bathrobe was developing some kind of alien odour after only 2 or 3 uses... the same kind of smell that my nose could detect when sticking my head inside the washer's porthole (I don't usually do this... I was investigating). Still, I wouldn't accept the fact that cold washes were the potential culprit and I'd let my existence (well... not only mine) be contaminated with such a horrifying musty smell until one day (after about a month and a half) I had no choice but to acknowledge the fact that cold washes and inappropriate cleaning agents were the root of all evil!

Needless to say I reverted to my old washing habits where some sort of temperature was involved depending on the nature of the wash load (typically cool or warm for darks, warm or hot for light colours and hot or boiling for whites).
This 'undo' operation did not yield instant results as it took several weeks of warm/hot washes before I could go around bragging about my musty smell free washing machine and clothes. The most obstinate smell retainer was my bathrobe which I finally washed on its own on a hot cycle... now I resumed using my cool or warm washes... and on occasions... when I'm dealing with a small load of lightly soiled items... I indulge into a cold wash.

I never had any more similar issues since that incident and I haven't even needed to run the much recommended 'maintenance cycle' to sterilize the washer... I just make sure that every once in a while (say every 1 or 2 weeks) I break my 30-40-50°C washing routine with a hotter cycle... yet, I rarely go above 70 degrees. Albeit my extended experience with FL washers, I managed to allow the creation of some conditions in such a type of appliance which I never thought possible... however this is not an innate front loader design issue... but the result of inadequate measures.
 
Ronic;

What bothers me about the simple answer is that here with the old 1976 Westinghouse I have used liquids for the last 7 to 10 years; when powdered All was not available locally. Thus say from roughly 2000 to 2010 an American older FL machine was used mostly with liquid All as the primary machine and I did not get any mold problems.

But my neighbor's 1990's Maytag Neptune that used powdered Tide got " a "PUKING STINK" stink as my neighbor called it" .

Thus if a FL machine from 1976 has no stink and it uses liquid soap; how come a Maytag Neptune "smelled like a sewer" after only a year or two that uses powder?

The answer is not that simple; or flipped on its head why is it that FL machines that were made for 50 years have no mold issues and have a do not care about liquids or powder? ie how is a new machine so non robust that one has to use certain soaps or use bleach?

With the 1976 westy I probably only use bleach once a year on some odd wash job; and most of the time I use cold water and liquid soaps
 
Welll......

....if you note that I mentioned 3 key factors that work together to cause the problem, not just detergent....

 

Further more, both liquid detergents and fabric conditioners have, historically, been 'oil' based which provides a lovely food for mould. Additionally, when the un-informed then shut the door on their machines, they then provide the warm, moist environment for mould growth....

 

So, in summary....

 

- modern machines use significantly less water and people have a tendency to over dose both detergents and fabric conditioners

 

which leads to:

 

- ineffective rinsing

 

and:

 

- residue in machines

 

which provides:

 

- a food source for mould

 

and this is made worse when:

 

- people shut the doors

 

providing:

 

- a lovely warm and moist environment for.....

 

<span style="font-size: xx-large;">MOULD! </span>

<span style="font-size: xx-large;"> </span>

<span style="font-size: small;"> </span>

<span style="font-size: small;">One key factor about all vintage machines is that they use HUGE amounts of water to wash and rinse with which will drastically reduce the chance of residue in the drum...regardless of which detergent a person uses....</span>
 
The old 1976 machine uses 30 gallons max per cycle; if one sets the water level control at maximum. Here that is only done if the machine is real full; thus rarely. A typical cycle with the 1976 machine here was just at low or medium water level setting and the water used was in the 22 to 25 gallon range. say 83 to 95 Liters. This machine used the least amount of water of any American washer back in a 1978 Consumer Reports test..

Thus I wonder if the say 1996? Neighbors Maytag Neptune washer was really radically a more thrifty machine in water usage.

Once the Neighbor had the sewer smell issue they left their machines door open all the time. The boot was replaced a few times too.

Ronic & Hexifan ; Maybe liquid detergent issue is one of rinising? ie some machines rince poor and thus the gunk is left over on the items?

Here the water is absurdly soft; hardly any soap is required,

Thus maybe since my family has used FL machines for so long that we do not use too much and my neighbor used way too much?
 
Never had an issue with my Neptunes.....liquid Tide, and downy, washed in all temps available at any given time, never overloaded, bleach used on a regular basis, never kept the door open.......and never heard of any mold issues from anyone, until I heard about it on this site about others......

thats not without saying....my sisters 1970 solid tub speed queen, for its entire life was only hooked up to cold water, a variety of detergents and such, don't recall her ever using bleach, lid kept closed at all times, machine was in the basement, and you could smell the odor whenever you walked into her house, in 1986 she got a GE FF, the smell went away, but you couldn't tell her, she would blame the odor on a damp basement, and from the heater...

from 1986 to 1998 I had a frigidaire tall tumbler, normal routine for washing, never kept the door open, and never had a mold or smell issue........

but it must come from a varety of conditions, moist, warm, dark, detergents, softners, water conditions, or even what the machine is constructed from.....

even Whirlpool has a few machines with a grey tub that is actibacterial, to reduce smell and odors......in a machine that would not normally have these issues.....but makes you wonder why the plastic in newer FL don't have something built into the plastic to help eliminate this issue....
 
3beltwesty - Liquid detergent...

Well... it might be just me... but I always had the impression that liquid detergent was easier to remove from the wash load. I'm saying this cos' I went through an episode quite some time ago with my previous washer in which I was running a load of coloureds using some cheap & nasty detergent powder (store own brand)... when I got the clean supposedly laundered clothes out of the washer they had traces of undissolved powder on them.

I always had cold washes thrown in with the rest of the cycles, the bad smell incident only started to manifest itself when I insisted and persisted in running cold washes continuously with all loads using both bio and non bio products in a random fashion: thid scenario was a one off thing that related to that incident (described above) only... thus I wouldn't know whether it would've happened with previous washers too... or if it would've been the case should I have stuck with the first product (Ariel Excel gel) which gave promising results to start with and was the 1 which convinced me in the 1st place to convert into a cold wash maniac.

Night.
 

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