FL WASHERS and BAD MOLD SMELLS; when did you 1st hear about this issue?

[3beltwesty]

The "Smelly Washer" product cleaner's website lists these bullet items:

(1) overuse of detergents
(2) fabric softener use
(3) using mainly cold water for washing
(4) non-use of the appliance.
(5) Obstructions in drain pumps

With the 1976 FL Westy;
(1) was never any issue; we have soft water and hardy use any soap and have always used frontloaders for many decades.

(2) was really minor usage; the same bottles form 1992 are still in the laundry room

(3) COLD WATER I use a lot, in the majority of washing thus; this reason to me seems bogus with my experience.

(4) Not an issue; we used the machine regularly.

(5) No pump issue either.

****Their statement with (5) says in the link that:

"there is always 1-2 gallons of water left in all washers{FL}even after draining."

When I took the 1976 Westy FL machine apart in 2005 and in the fall of 2010 there really was only about 1 to 2 cups of water in the tub-sump/pump body; thus their comment says a modern American front loader has SIXTEEN TIMES the retained water compared to an old FL machine, HARD TO BELIEVE!

Maybe this "retained water" is what causes some issues?

http://smellywasher.com/blog/how-to...-washing-machine-odor-and-towel-mildew-smell/

 

[3beltwesty]

This one starts to spin hell bent for leather!

Here is what Tomturbomatic here says about the Westy pump:

"Even though there are European design elements to this machine, the outer tub still retains the shallow sump, covered by a baffle, connected almost directly to a very powerful pump.

The three belt machines powered the pump from the main motor. The pump had to be able to pump out water during the spin because there was no way the machine could stop spinning and still pump out the water.

This one has an independently powered, powerful drain pump and that powerful pump combined with the direct feed from the sump means none of that silly drain water surging between the inner and outer tub causing the machine to stop to pump out the water like some European machines.

This one starts to spin hell bent for leather and keeps spinning regardless of balance or amount of water spun out of the load. The recessed sump with the baffle traps the water as it is spun out so that it does not surge between the two tubs.

It is proven technology that Westinghouse used since the late 50s. It is not as sophisticated as many of the front loaders imported from outside the US, but it is a very rugged machine. It's a shame so few were made and sold."

**How much water is left in machine like this really depends on how well the tub spring are adjusted; and how high the drain is that the pump's exit hose has to lift/throw water too.

http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?15890

 

[3beltwesty]

As far as plastics versus porcelain

Plastics can absorb smells radically more than porcelain.

Rancid milk in a Polypropylene milk jug is not one you use to store water with, the stink gets into the plastic itself.

Porcelain is a ceramic and any stink is really due to surface trash and particles; the odor really does not go deep like a plastic.

One can expose a piece of PP/Polypropylene and porcelain to a weird chemical and then clean them and a dog will still smell the Polypropylene item

 

[combo52]

SMELLY WASHERS

Have never been caused by using too much detergent. Otherwise the washer would not be smelly but would smell like detergent.

 

[Pingmeep]

@combo52 I disagree. Overdose with a poor detergent and you have residue. That residue can lead to mold. Also if you already have a poor machine that retains water (early Duets being a good example) that water with poor detergent can act as food source.

 

[limey]

Spider Corrosion And Foul Odours In Front Load Washers

To pingmeep and COMBO52
A major constituent of powdered detergents is sodium carbonate (washing soda); it is also a major constituent of the powdered ‘Oxi’ products and ‘Affresh’. Further, should the correct concentration be reached, it is corrosive to aluminium and its alloys. It is also hygroscopic. This means any left in the machine at the end of the last rinse cycle will not completely ‘dry out’ but will attract water from the air and as soon as the required concentration is reached corrosion of aluminium, and its alloys, will occur.

 

[MrX]

I have been using front loaders all my life and, honestly, I have never had any of these issues.
Machines :
Zanissi JetSystem 1990s, Miele, moved out: various hotpoints, whirlpools, indesits, etc in rented apartments then a Hotpoint Aqualtis and absolutely none of these machines have had mould issues.

I'm not fussy about how I do laundry. I usually stuff everything in, throw a scoop of colour or regular detergent, ususally unilever persil or Ariel and put it on a 40 C cottons or easy care cycle.

I also always use fabric softener, usually comfort pure, lenor oxygen fresh or a store brand sensitive type.

White towels go in to a stuffed to capacity 60C cottons cycle every few days with a large dose of persil and a bit of fabric softener.

My machine smells nice, gentle whiff of persil.

I wonder is there something about the way US machines are designed that it resulting in mould formation? Eg perhaps they are so big that the outer tank doesn't get splashed with detergent solution enough? They always seem enormous and lightly loaded compared to our machines.

Could it be something to do with detergent formulation? Perhaps ours are better at dealing with mildew or, do not leave deposits that feed it?

There has to be some scientific explanation for the difference as I don't think in we, as end users, are doing anything very different.

 

[3beltwesty]

US Machines are designed around getting a tax credit

RE

"I wonder is there something about the way US machines are designed that it resulting in mould formation? Eg perhaps they are so big that the outer tank doesn't get splashed with detergent solution enough? They always seem enormous and lightly loaded compared to our machines. "

Read Yesterdays March 3,2011 editorial article by the Editors, Wall Street Journal Article in my Link "Tax Reform Exhibit A"

WSJ ****" $225 per washer and dryer." tax credit

WSJ ****** "These appliance credits are in addition to $300 million the feds gave to states as part of the 2009 stimulus to pay rebates to consumers for buying these same goods. So there's one subsidy to make the machines and another to buy them."

WSJ ****** "The Department of Energy says these appliances save families money by reducing energy use by more than half. If that's true, why does the government have to bribe people to make these purchases? "

WESTY(me) Thus the entire design in the USA is to get that low water rating to get that tax kickback to the washer maker. ie 225 dollars per washer from the Feds, and another state subsidy credit back by the Feds too.

The USA has high taxes on businesses, thus a washer maker designs washers here to get that say 300 dollar tax credit.

The design goals are skewed by the governments programs. ie one gets a washer that really just sprays clothes and uses gobs of time. ie typical government carrot that creates a poorer product. In past eras the consumer choose a machine like my 1976 westy that only used 30 gallons; or a 1976 top loader that used 60 gallons. Folks voted by their pocket books. If water costs mattered; they bought a thrifty machine and it often cost more.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704506004576174321393436988.html

 

[3beltwesty]

Imagine if in Europe that the government have MASSIVE tax credits to make beer and wine with lower alcohol content and the side effect was on got the trots. The lower cost new product would drive out the better products. If the USA did not do this; we would wonder why folks in Europe are complaining about the ill effects of the new beers and new wines, designed to grab tax credits.

 

[dj-gabriele]

@3beltwesty

Your comment is both offensive and barely makes sense.

 

[3beltwesty]

Tax credits create offensive designs sometimes.

dj-gabriele;

I too agree that the US Governments steering of products designs via tax credits is offensive.

It creates waste with many items.

Maybe you do not like analogies; thus example(s) are offensive to you.

Here I find it highly offensive that US products are propped up and supported by via my tax dollars and poorer products are created.

Waste is offensive to me.

Maybe Italy can create a tax on pasta; and give a giant tax break on pseudo plastic like pasta that tastes like packing peanuts and the issue of tax steering products will be understandable.? ie your government feels they want to steer your behavior. They create a giant tax break say for pasta that has way less calories, but it tastes bad and creates stomach issues with some. They make the tax break so large that now the bulk of the pasta is now what folks do NOT want, but the chaps in government want folks to use. ie instead of letting natural market forces "decide"; the government creates weirdness as their social agenda.

California awhile back was thinking about giving a tax break on those potato chips that were less fattening, but caused leakage with some. Thus there is actual history with my two examples were the government was thinking of using tax breaks to create food products that creates stomach issues with some.

Europeans on this board constantly talk about their great Fl machines. If your beloved FL machine was sold here it would have no tax credit; thus its design would be changed/ruined/degraded to get that 225 to 300 dollar tax credit for the washer makers.

Folks differ; I find it offensive that the Government has to have giant tax credits that steer washer designs in the wrong way.

 

[3beltwesty]

dj-gabriele;

If your government creates giant tax breaks on your products and ruins your food, washers or cars it does not effect me.

 

[hoover1100]

Government 'ruining' washing machines

The tax breaks do not 'coerce' manufacturers into producing poorer quality machines. An energy efficient machine with low water consumption is in now way, shape or form inferior, just different.

The machines sold here use about the same amount of water per kg of laundry as an American one, yet they wash and rinse better than most water hogging machines of years gone by, they are also more gentle on clothing, due to better drum designs and wash profiles.

The difference is, I guess, that we couldn't care less how long a washer takes to complete a load, because we rarely let laundry build up to the point that multiple loads must be done one after the other, and we do not wait around for the machine to finish.

The Government is not forcing manufacturers to make poorly deisgned machines in the U.S., if anything, what they are doing is making it cheaper for them to produce well designed, energy efficient machines. Unfortunately, as big money grabbing corporations always do, the manufacturers have taken the rebates and run, leaving the consumer with poorly designed and badly thought out machines, which do not do the job properly because they do not use the resources they utilise (energy, water) efficiently enough.

The reason there are so many poor quality machines on the market today is because of poor build quality, poorly made components and cutting corners on quality control. It's nothing to do with the Government, nothing to do with whether the machine is made in China or the USA, it's simply the parts used, the training the people making the machines have recieved, and the level of quality control.

Remember, not all machines were sturdy or reliable years ago, many truly terrible machines were made. In the same sense not all machines made today are 'junk' as so many people on here try to make them out to be.

Matt

 

[3beltwesty]

Consider the USA's ethanol Boondoggle

Look at ethanol if you think that the government is such a great god to worship.

Here they mandate gasoline has to use 15 percent ethanol.

All our great outboards, mowers, weedeaters, chainsaws, cars get gummed up by this crap.

Thus one is constantly doing carb rebuilds, starting mowers in winter to avoid the gum issues. Thus the ritual is we remove carb bowls, dump the bad gas on the grass, use all these nasty cleaners to remove the greenies beloved ethanol gas's crud.

To prevent fouling I start up and run stuff very month or so; to avoid rebuilds.

Thus from a small engine user; the ethanol boondoggle creates waste and pollutes. Ie the ethanol greenies cause more pollution via the mess it creates in 50 times more gumming and cleaning. Ie typical government program; drive up food prices via ethanol boondoggle, having the average Joe ruining his outboards with gum issues. having us run stuff just to prevent fouling. The dolts at government seem to have zero brains and did not figure how actual users have to create more wastefull starts to prevent their beloved ethanol from fouling everything.



Thus many of us try to use the hard to find non ethanol gas to avoid the massive constant degumming.

 

[3beltwesty]

The government tax credit means if:

(1) Machine A has the tax break and sells for 600 bucks;

(2) Machine B that uses 5 percent more water and rinses 10 times better sells for 900 bucks. ie the extra 5 percent more water voided the tax credits

In a non government screwed up system both might sell for 900 bucks and item 2 is labeled as using 5 percent more water, but it rinses 10 times better and washes 1.5 time quicker.

Some folks would buy machine (2) since time matters and quality of results too; ie they they do not like designs steered by government specs that ruin performance.

Ie machine (2) uses 5 percent more water thus costs them 1 cent extra per load. If they wash 4 times a week , this has the greenies in tears since one pays 2 dollers per year extra in water. An actual non government worker might have to deal with time matters, they see the 2 dollar loss as little compared to the time saved. Thus they buy the washer the social engineers do not want you to buy!

 

[3beltwesty]

Here is a funny thread to read in a link

"Its a unique feature of the USA that many inhabitants combine
everything - whites, colours, dirty nappies, delicates into their huge
top loading washing machine, add heaps of bleach and washing powder
then heat it to boiling for a couple of hours before spinning it to
within an inch of its life. Then they tumble dry the washing into
submission when they have a house on a 2 acre plot and outside its 80
deg C, with a gentle breeze and blue sky as far as you can see.

This explains why their clothes 'fade' and 'wear out' at fifty times
the rate in Europe and why they are constantly buying new clothes from
sweat ships in the far east and thereby sustaining their massive trade
deficit. European front loaders with their low temperature cycles and
powder formulations lead to very low levels of fade and fabric damage
using significantly less energy and water.

Not my words but essentially those of a Professor in fabric technology
at a UK university."

http:///264358-black-mould-washing-machine-door-seal-3.html

 

[chestermikeuk]

Me thinks.....

Its time to drop this spat with the UK bods, Europe & the rest of civilization, i respected your engineering skills but your deliberating points are past tiresome!!

Pass the soapcake anyone!!!

 

[3beltwesty]

.

http://www.diybanter.com/uk-diy/264358-black-mould-washing-machine-door-seal-3.html

 

[whirlcool]

Now to shake things up a bit my sister has a Kenmore HE2T FL machine. She washes most everything in cold water, she uses liquid detergents by the cupful and tons of Downy in the machine. She never leaves the door open between uses (her cats will use it as a litter box). Her machine does not smell at all. She has never had a breakdown in the five years she's had the machine.

Go Figure!

 

[Pingmeep]

@whirlcool

Interesting. What does she use for detergents? How often does she do laundry?

Inquiring minds would like to know ;-)