Follow-up on LG FL washer...a year later. SQ it is.

[earthling177]

Christi:

I wish you all the success, whether you find an old Maytag set, or find something new that behaves like it or even if you find a new HE set that makes you happy.

I understand, I truly do. Being able to do something that others think of a "chore" as a relaxation/meditation is priceless. For decades I did not understand *why* people hated laundry until I was put in situations (apartment buildings, for example, with "shared" laundry equipment/laundromats) that made me anxious just by thinking about having to do laundry.

So happy that's over for me!

As for hot water and dye transfer/bleed etc. I do suggest that you do some reading in the Dharma Trading website about how to hand dye some fabric. There are multiple slightly different processes, like tie dye, batik, yardage dyeing etc.

See what they tell you and how you feel about it.

I have not actually dyed anything but the couple of times I tie-dyed something or helped overdye gray pants ultra-black for a community theatre group we hang out with.

Once I started washing all my *new* clothes in the same way they tell you to finish dyeing a garment, they started lasting *much* longer.

What I do: *very* quick rinse, a minute or two in cold water in a tub. Swish the garment with similar colors around, squeeze as much water you can without deforming the garments. Fill the tub with warm water, rinse the clothes for 5 minutes or less. Both these rinses are to remove unreacted/unnattached excess dyes -- the dyes can in fact attach themselves to say, a white fabric and that's why you want to remove as much as possible, but you don't want to spend so long that you start removing dyes that *have* reacted but not *fixed* to the fabric.

That's what you do next: 140F water and TOL detergent, it doesn't have to be a long wash, a short wash and through multiple rinses will do fine. If you can't get 140F water, get as close as you can. That should finish the process.

If you can't get your hands on TOL detergents, you may want to get and follow the directions on the bottles of Retayne (to fix the dyes) and then Synthrapol (to remove all the unreacted dyes) so the fabric actually becomes colorfast and stops bleeding. I have had very good luck just washing the garments separately like I mentioned a couple of washes until they start behaving.

Also, like I mentioned before, some traditional processes (indigo blue in blue jeans, madras hand dyed/hand woven fabrics) are supposed to fade throughout the useful life of the fabrics.

Anyway, we hope you find several options that work for you.

Cheers,
    -- Paulo.

 

[dreamclean]

What's next

Thank-you Paulo (sorry I goofed on the spelling earlier) I will definitely be trying your method on a new red Organic Australian made cotton top I've been afraid to wash.
Tomorrow we're calling to get a technician to check the machine just in case anything is off. I'm going to get a Tide powder to try along with the liquid Persil, buy some new screen printed tees and socks to experiment with and hit that hot water button. Not as worried about cleanliness as I am the pilling, but if I can avoid fabric softener I'd be pretty happy. I'll check back in after I play around with it some more.

 

[foraloysius]

Every new 100% cotton item that I buy gets a overnight soak in cold water with a cup of distilled vinegar. It helps against shrinking and colors bleeding.

That cotton top sounds like it could be a delicate item, so I wouldn't wash it on hot. But every clothing item that one wears on the skin can endure a warm wash (100 - 105F)

Hope in the end you get more satisfaction from your machine than you did until now.

 

[rolls_rapide]

Red clothing

Red dyes usually, in my experience, tend to bleed quite readily. Red garments fade over time, and the sun fades them too. Never wash red garments with a load of whites - they'll end up pink, as you might expect. Never wash red garments with a load of blacks - they'll end up with reddish-brown streaks. It's happened to me in the past.

I wash red items with other red garments, in the machine. I turn them inside out. I wash them in lukewarm-ish water (30 deg C to 40 deg C), with a liquid detergent (bleach isn't in the formulation). I peg them on the line still inside out, so the sun doesn't bleach them. Or they go in the dryer, still inside out.

Black and Navy Blue items I tend to wash together at 40 deg C, sometimes using liquid detergent, sometimes using powder. The powder removes odours more effectively.

Whites and yellows, I wash together sometimes washing at 60 deg C, other times at 50 deg, or 40 deg. I use either a powder for whites or a powder-tablet (powder compressed into tablet form). And even then, I crumble the tablet back into powder form, so that the dispenser drawer flushes clean.

Powder-tablets seem to have been discontinued by several big manufacturers, only the squidgy liqui-tab pods are generally available.

The liqui-tabs have liquid detergent at high concentration, in a dissolvable pouch. There have been instances where the pouch did not dissolve, leaving a plastic gum on the clothing, or on the door seal. Personally, I would not recommend liqui-tabs.

And good luck with wash day!

 

[dreamclean]

Questions/fine tuning

Great tips, the red top is handmade of an organic cotton jersey with a hand screen printed design, it does say handwash only but I was hoping it could handle the gentle cycles. I had put off thinking about how to care for it in the long-run but I just wore it for the first time. I don't actually have enough (nice) clothes of any particular color to do an actual load of that color.

This brings up some questions...If I'm washing one hoodie or sweater on its own or 1-4 tops how much liquid vs powder detergent? I use a tbsp of liquid for normal sized loads. Since they need to be washed individually, my handwashables rarely see the light of day.
Can screen printed tees handle hot water?
How does elastic handle hot water? Also, synthetic lace?
Anyone have care advice for dyed (dark teal and white) 100% linen sheets? They are handmade as well and it says to use warm water but I wonder if they can handle hot (I have dogs)
I think that covers it all...

 

[DADoES]

 
Hot water is relative to the machine's programming.  Variable per the selected cycle and soil level.  Many produce nowadays 95°F or so for hot on the designated Normal cycle.  Heavy Duty would be warmer, and of course Sanitary or Steam with an onboard heater.

 

[rolls_rapide]

Hi Dreamclean,

I downloaded the Instruction Manual for your machine, based on the model you gave in your original post.

Page 23 has the various cycles.

The cycle you want for "handwash" articles, is the "Handwash / Woollens" programme. This should be a low temperature wash, with 'much reduced agitation' - designed to prevent felting of woollens. Low spin speed - you might have to run another spin cycle afterwards, at a faster speed.

Cottons and linens (sheets, tablecloths, towels, t-shirts polyester-cotton mixtures) require maximum agitation with high spin speeds. Use "Cotton Normal".

Temperatures seem to default to "warm". This should be absolutely fine.

Use a biological detergent, preferably a powder. Put it in the dispenser drawer, and make sure that the 'liquid detergent' removable 'cup' is removed when using powder.

http://www.lg.com/us/support-product/lg-WM4270HVA#manuals

 

[rolls_rapide]

Elastic is okay at warm temperatures, be cautious of 'hot' and 'very hot' temperatures, it can perish over time.

Lycra items: wash as "Delicates" , with warm temperature.

Synthetic lace: - check the label. If "handwash" on the label, wash on the woollens cycle. Else it might be possible to wash as "Delicates".

 

[dreamclean]

Hand wash cycle

Ok yes, I've used all the cycles properly before but was hoping to use hot to kill germs and prolong fabric life as Paulo explained. It sounds like I can't use hot water to kill germs with underwear, which are mostly synthetics, or the linen, which is what I'm primarily interested in. My main question was how much detergent to use for one-five items. My mother's theory is that I can't effectively clean a small load of items on handwash in this HE machine. So that's my problem bc hand washing is said to be poor at removing oils and odor, on top of my own experience and I don't know how much detergent to use for 1-5 items. These are items which are 100 percent cotton, linen or wool.

 

[rolls_rapide]

It varies according to detergent. Some powders are quite foamy, others hardly foam at all.

Based on my experience, start off with about 50ml of powder.

Regarding synthetics:

A typical Synthetics load will be much less than a Cottons load, typically about half in weight. This is required to minimise creasing.

Our machines had synthetics programmes with temperatures of between cold and 60 deg C. Agitation was 'medium', spinning was short and slow, due to creasing issues.

The 'Synthetics 60 deg C' temperature was for 'White Nylon' (drip-dry shirts and blouses which had to be kept white).

The 'Synthetics 50 deg C' 'Minimum Iron' was for polycotton 'drip-dry' mixtures and coloured nylon (coloured shirts and blouses). Agitation and spinning as above.

There was never an official 'Synthetics 40 deg C' programme - although it could be achieved on some machines, by reducing the temperature dial, or pressing the 'Economy' button.

In its place was 'Delicates 40 deg C' - designed for acrylics (Acrilan, Orlon) jumpers and cardigans. Agitation and spinning as above.

With the above Synthetics and Delicates, the machine could be programmed to stop at the final rinse called "Rinse Hold", until the user activated the final slow spin. This minimised creasing - provided the user removed the clothes promptly.

Modern machines have essentially the same cycles, but with dumbed down temperatures. One of the first casualties was the Synthetics 50 deg C ('Minimum Iron') - usually replaced by a Synthetics 40 deg cycle.

Regarding the handwash cycle:
It is probably too gentle for your togs. Cotton and linen - wash as cotton. Woollens - was as wool.

What EXACTLY do the garment labels say?

Have a look at this article in the link... it's to do with temperatures and detergents.

http://www.which.co.uk/reviews/washing-machines/article/should-i-wash-at-60c

 

[dreamclean]

After hours of research...

Most of the instructions for all my things say to wash in cold water, which I've done along with warm. The issues were still pilling and odor. With the goal of no odor, more flexible fibers bc of heat and clothes that look new longer, I thought I could override instructions based on what Paulo said and use hot. However since these are synthetic undies with elastic, screen printed tees and thin cottons it looks like that might not be a good idea for my particular kind of laundry. I also read a chapter from Home Comforts and she said hot has a tendency to shrink and fade fabrics. The new things like knits say handwash (a thin merino wool sweater), and the linen sweater said dry clean but the designer told me to put it in the machine on delicate. I have a thin cotton James Perse tee that has a unique dye process and says to wash in cold. At this point I don't trust the machine for these things.

I compared laundry with my roommate who uses the same cycles and detergent and does larger loads and combines denim, cotton tees and synthetics. Her cotton tees are nearly the same age as mine, immaculate with no pilling, they are mostly generic or from the Life is Good Company, which are known for quality tees. My things are admittedly more delicate but her Ann Taylor cotton modal top is just as pilled as mine and she said that started quite suddenly (much like mine). That seems to indicate that many of my Threadless tees may have some modal in there but it's happened across brands. I know clothing quality has gone down a lot in recent years so no doubt that has something to do with it. I won't know for sure until I do a burn test. Yes that's next... The only difference in variables is that my loads are smaller and on another forum someone said that is harder on clothes bc there is less cushion. She puts all different fabrics together, which if the Icebreaker company website is correct in advising to wash merino wools with denim to decrease pilling (yes you read that right) then maybe this is a new theory.

Using liquid Persil I washed the red handmade cotton jersey top inside out in a mesh bag on its own using handwash cold like the designer recommended. I thought it looked a little scuffed up in places and the screen print seemed faded. And wanted to cry.

I tried the Persil on warm perm press and I thought it did clean better but I had one cotton hemp tee that was crunchy from the detergent not rinsing completely even with an extra rinse cycle. I only used 1 tablespoon, and I can't imagine using the 1.6 oz the Persil bottle said. This tells me there's not enough water bc how could a tablespoon still be too much?

As for powder, a textile professor said it is better for actual dirt where liquids excel at removing skin and cooking oils. A couple sites said that granules can contribute to pilling by creating more friction especially if they don't fully dissolve. Since the powders dissolve better in warm/hot and a lot of my items say to use cold, I can only try the powder and see what happens.

The tech is coming this week to check the machine so hopefully I'll learn something new. For now I'm exhausted really.

 

[DADoES]

 
<blockquote>I also read a chapter from Home Comforts and she said hot has a tendency to shrink and fade fabrics.</blockquote> Thing is, that refers to "real" hot water, tap hot, 120°F up to 140°F.  HE washers nowadays won't get anywhere near that except on a designated Sanitary or Allergen (or maybe Heavy Duty at max soil level) with an onboard heater.

 

[rolls_rapide]

"...and the screen print seemed faded."

Perhaps it wasn't actual fading, but brightening instead? Most laundry detergents contain optical brighteners which absorb ultraviolet light and reflect it back with visible wavelengths. Whites do look brighter, colours can also be improved.

And before anyone says that optical brighteners fade colours, consider this: optical brighteners have been used in carpet extractor shampoo formulations too, such as Vax detergent. The original Vax liquid (the one where you added separate defoamer) had a violet tinge.

I think Modal fabric (rayon) is a tad more robust than you might imagine. Have a look at this link, below.

Regarding pilling, generally I do not experience it on my cottons. I have an old "Regatta" brand polyester t-shirt which does have awful pilling. Perhaps your tops have a mixture of polyester?

On the other hand, it could be that the quality of cotton they sell these days is just plain old dreadful quality. I have a few pairs of ancient denim jeans which have outlasted the newer 'softer cotton' jeans. The soft cotton jeans frayed and wore out very badly indeed.

http://https//www.thespruce.com/g00...45794?i10c.referrer=https://www.google.co.uk/

 

[jkbff]

I am sorry for the laundry troubles, but I am so glad to see this thread.

I recently switched from a Miele W3038 washer to a LG WM3997 and I was thinking its all in my head, but my laundry is not as clean and doesn't feel the same as laundry from my Miele.

For both machines, I use liquid persil on for the pre-wash, and then either miele color or white powder for the main wash. I programmed the Miele to do two extra rinses, on the LG I always select two extra rinses. I also select turbo wash so I get the added spray.

If I wash Polyester polos or slacks, on both machines, it was always a warm wash with a medium spin. On the Miele I always used a custom cycle with sanitize for my bedding, towels, rags and anything unusually grungy. The LG, I will just usually use hot, the sanitize cycle adds way too much time and it just seems off from the Miele sanitize cycle (the times I've used it didn't seem to help). Also, one difference with my laundry now is that the Miele's were on the third floor. The LG is right next to my hot water heater and directly connected to the hot line out so it has instant hot water.

I don't have a lot of variation in my day to day routine. I typically have the same food spills, the same oil / grease / sweat on my clothes and my stuff just doesn't feel or seem clean like it did from the Miele units. I never had spots left over on my laundry from the Miele and my collars were always clean. Collars are an off color now.

Since I've started using the LG, I've bought more socks and underwear. I thought it was just a coincidence. Also, my high thread count cotton sheets don't have that same feel to them like they did from Miele. They feel heavier.

I've been needing to do my pillows, but I am not sure if I am going to be happy with the results. I was thinking I'd use sanitize and steam on them just to see if I can get the entire pillow clean. I haven't done my down comforter in the LG either.

Anyways, I just thought I'd say something since I was thinking it was all just a mind issue until I came across this thread.

Good luck!

 

[foraloysius]

There might be no connection, but you're both using Turbowash and you both have problems. Just saying...

 

[jkbff]

I was thinking that, but I tried without turbo wash for the first few loads, it doesn't put as much water in the tub then. Also, some stuff felt a lot dryer than when I use the turbo wash, so that tells me things aren't getting as saturated.

The physical debris/hair etc is removed better with the turbowash.

I should mention that when I use the turbowash, I do increase the soil level so it makes up for the wash time that it cuts using turbowash.

Most all of the cycles I do are around the 1:30 mark.

 

[dreamclean]

Synthetic blends and burn test results

Oh yes the dumbed down temperatures, it's something to consider so I'm probably going to experiment with some new inexpensive screen printed tees first.

After reading so many complaints about clothing deteriorating in the wash no matter the brand, it seems mass produced clothing really has gone to the dogs in recent years, and it happens to coincide with the mainstream getting used to HE washers, so the washers are getting blamed. Case in point, I remembered a hoodie I bought last year from a UK brand called Misguided. It was a cotton poly blend, and literally started pilling within two wears. I contacted the company and they brushed me off. It was about a $40 hoodie, but never having seen a washer, that was inexcusable. I had never had that happen with anything before. And you think about all these vintage cotton poly garments on the market with years of use behind them but are still kicking it. I learned that the tendency towards pilling can start at many points during the actual manufacturing process, usually because machines are not calibrated properly and the weave is not tight enough. So it's not materials alone.

I had read the modal article but again I think it must vary with the weave and quality. In the unscientific poll below, it was not rated highly for durability and many comments indicated anecdotal evidence supporting those results. The Ann Taylor shirt that was the only item in my roommates load that was pilling like my (allegedly cotton) tshirts, and was a modal cotton blend. I cut a swatch of that material and one of my tees, and performing the burn test, noted very similar reactions. Both appeared to pull away from the flame, turned black and had a melted effect as seen with synthetic blends. They both smelled like burning paper, had an afterglow and produced grey smoke and a fine ash as cotton is supposed to. Based on a YouTube video showing a cotton swatch, my tee should have quickly ignited on contact-- unless the weave makes much difference. So I do believe my tees are mixed with modal (another cellulose fiber) bc polyester would have had a black plume, chemical smell and hard bead-like ashes.
I found a true cotton tee from another UK company called Amplified that makes rock tees. This shirt has seen a ton of wear and there was no pilling. I believe that the nicer cottons are silky to the touch like this one, so I'm going to be more selective when shopping. As for the red tee, the designer assures me that the screen print looks the same and she has already road tested the fabric with little signs of wear after 100's of washes. Admittedly I've been a little paranoid so I'm going to try to put my perfectionist tendencies to rest now and enjoy the top. I have a lot more confidence in handmade sellers on Etsy than retail designers, who stand by their quality, have pride in what they do and wear the clothes themselves. I plan on getting my socks on there, it seems like Eastern Europe is still producing socks as they used to be made. I had bought some socks in France by a brand called Achile, and they lasted for 15+ years. I know European consumers are a lot more savvy and demanding, I just wish Americans would follow suit otherwise we will continue to be a throw-away society and most people aren't aware of the need to recycle all this surplus. I have considered starting a blog in the past since there is no consciousness about quality and clearly no accountability with the labels or manufacturers. As an example, I bought a sweatshirt from an indie eco-label and realized that the thread tension had caused it to buckle at the seams and created holes. The sweatshirt had been given glowing 5 star reviews (one reviewer even said she bought three) even though it looked terribly frumpy and saggy on the model bc of this glaring defect (I chalked it up to posture initially). When I contacted the designer for a return, she was completely ignorant of the issue even though she had sold many in different colors. She didn't even seem to fully grasp the seriousness of the issue until after a few email exchanges. This is basic sewing 101, and she's had her online boutique, Beklina, for over ten years. Anyway, something has to give and in America we need to raise our standards for a lot of different reasons...
Thanks for listening and all the tips. Feel a lot better about the washer but still have some kinks to get out and a lot of clothes to replace but that's the fun part
Christi

http://https//youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/unscientific-analysis-of-knit-fabric-durability

 

[dreamclean]

Hi Jkbff, I'm glad to hear this has been helpful. I was actually looking into a Miele the past couple of days so it's good to hear your experience. I just don't think the rinsing or water levels are sufficient..if I used the 1.6 oz of recommended Persil you could probably stand my clothes straight up on the floor. One measly tablespoon ought to wash out fully unless I try half of that which sounds crazy. That was with one extra rinse cycle on warm. I could do three but figured that might be harder on the clothes. The other thing I might try is to add 2-3 gallons of water after pausing the cycle. Everything just feels slightly sticky and looks dull...

http://

 

[dreamclean]

After picking the tech's brain

Had the annual Sears check-up on the LG set. Everything looked good no problems. He did say that all the machines since the HE changeover of 2009 do not clean as well as the old TL's especially Maytags and the Speed Queen. About the pilling and worn screen printed tees he said it is definitely caused by the clothes rubbing against each other. So the clothes will get worn down in a FL from abrasion, whereas the TL wear the clothes through shredding. Since I washed everything in my old Maytag TL on the delicate cycle, I escaped both kinds of wear for the most part.

If he bought a machine today he said it would be a TL Speed Queen, that LG's are the best of the mainstream brands and to steer clear of Samsung and GE altogether.
As for detergent amounts, for a normal load in an LG they recommend two tablespoons, less for smaller loads. So I'm fine with that but he wasn't surprised detergent still didn't wash out of some. He advised against adding water as some people have tried since it would just drain bc of the built-in sensors.
The technician has 25 years experience, so pretty confident he's seen it all but didn't know much about Miele. Leaning towards selling the set and getting a SQ again...

 

[rolls_rapide]

"caused by the clothes rubbing against each other."

That is disappointing. They only way to reduce/delay the problem would be to activate the 'Turbo Wash' for most of your loads.

Have you tried a small amount of fabric conditioner in the final rinse? I know you said you didn't like the stuff, but it might help to lubricate the fibres and delay the pilling.