General Motors Strike

[dalangdon]

Oh Mark, don't get so worked up. If you don't like unions, don't join one. But don't kid yourself - or try to kid others - that unions don't care about safety.

I'm sorry about your grandfather, but it bears pointing out that the UMW was instrumental in passage of the Federal Coal Mine Health and Safety Act of 1969, which specifically provided compensation for miners who were totally and permanently disabled by Black Lung.

My grandfather was an IBEW lineman for Nebraska Public Power. Back when he first started, the only way to deal with a lineman who got shocked while up on a pole was to cut his climbing belt, and let him fall. The rationale being that the fall would either kill him or wake him up. Since those days, the IBEW has been instrumental in developing safety procedures for poletop rescue so that a lineman actually has a chance of surviving an electrical shock. Tell me - what's so wrong about that?

 

[gansky1]

Maytag killed by unions?

No.

Maytag would have been fine were it not for piss-poor leadership. Whirlpool seems to be doing just fine...

 

[lightedcontrols]

Greg!

From the press articles that I read, many of Maytag's employees lamented that the Union had killed the company. Have you not heard that Whirlpool is having Union troubles too? And dalangdon, the health care (monies that were set aside) that you spoke of in your post (for Black Lung cases, etc...) was non existant after the mines closed in the mid 70's....and who knows where that money went???? Mark

 

[dalangdon]

Mark, for something that supposedly went away, the Black Lung compensation program certainly seems alive and well (see link below).

$600 bucks a month (nontaxable, plus free medical care and prescriptions) isn't much, but it's certainly more than the $150 a month my Uncle Marvin got from the VA for the shattered leg he got at the Battle of the Bulge.

Again, I'll repeat (and try to bring this back around to appliances and manufacturing, for I know this p*****g match is dreary): Unions aren't perfect, and they aren't for every industry. But this knee-jerk reaction to organized labor makes absolutely no sense. For proof, look at Boeing: Unionized to the hilt, and profitable as the day is long.

http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/owcp/bltable.htm

 

[lightedcontrols]

dalangdon..

...plead your case to the car folks that are out of work thanks to the unions. And then next yeaar, plead your case to them again. And by the way, I can give you over 150 names and address of people that died of Black Lung that didn't qualify for the benefits.....until AFTER they died, so that whole thing is a hoax. Mark

 

[fa_f3_20]

You can add Eastern Airlines to the list. I was peripherally involved in that situation. It was more important to the union bosses that they "win" then it was to actually save the jobs. And this was a company that tried to be on best terms with the unions; when Eddie Rickenbacker owned Eastern, he actually invited the unions into the company.

Eastern's folding left Delta with no competition in the Southeast market at the time. To this day, flights originating or terminating in Atlanta bear unusually high fares, because Delta has a near-stranglehold on that market.

 

[~sudsshane]

Unions are both good and bad.

Who will protect coal miners we keep hearing about who are dying in mine collapses? They need powerful unions to protect them from greedy mine owners interested in only profit and not the safety of their employees.
On the other hand, why do Major League athletes who make millions of dollars a year need a union? or employees who have relatively safe jobs at your local supermarket?

Lastly, if we see the demise of Unions, what will then stop greedy CEO's from taking their companies or sending jobs overseas? (I for one think NAFTA was a HUGE mistake)

This is really a catch 22 situation and I don't think there is a right or wrong answer.

 

[sudsmaster]

Dan, I have to agree with a point you made: the fact that unions exist and have won conessions for workers has made it better for ALL workers, unionized or not.

 

[alr2903]

Maybe we could have a Seance', conjure up poor KAREN GAY SILKWOOD, a real life working heroine. I bet she could set us straight (read correct).

 

[compactc9]

I am very thankful that vac shops...

Aren't union. I have seen first hand what a union can do. My dad was actually harassed and then later fired after crossing the picket line during the last UPS strike. The strike took quite a bit of time causing shipping delays and other annoyances. The most annoying thing is that nothing was significantly changed after the strike. So whats the point? Unions had a time in history when they were needed to improve working conditions, but what has been at least 8 decades ago. Face it, all unions today do is cause fuss over some small issues. I guess if unions didn't go on strike, I would have less to complain about. I also disapprove of unions making all employees of a certain union company pay dues, even if you have no interest in being a part of the union.

 

[dalangdon]

Reggie, why would a company fire your father for crossing a picket line? That makes no sense. That's like saying that a government sponsored website is a hoax, or saying someone's beliefs are "crap" because you can't defend your side in a discussion.

I think I've been fairly rational and evenhanded in my defense of labor, but all I get from the opposition are insults and second-hand accounts of relatives who were done wrong, or supposed sightings of workers supposedly not working.

I have been both union and non-union, management and line, and I know that nothing and no one is perfect. Yes, there are crappy union employees, and crappy stewards, and crappy "union bosses". Sometimes workrules are inflexible or archaic. That doesn't mean the entire movement is wrong, or the concept of organizing is wrong, and it sure doesn't mean that everyone not in a union is a model of efficiency.

If you don't know history, you are doomed to repeat the mistakes, and this country is notorious when it comes to the people not knowing their history. Those people who parrot the line that "unions were once good, but not anymore" are the ones who will suffer the most from those mistakes.

 

[tolivac]

I work in a state that is "right -to-work"you can work in the union plant and get some union benefits but not all.You also don't have to be a member of the union.in the benefits example-say if you have a dispute with the workplace-union members get their lawyers fee paid by the union.non union folks do not in a dispute.I do agree that unions cause some problems and solve others.Sadly no workplace is perfect.The biggest beef I get is some unions actually side with "management" and not with the workers.

 

[perc-o-prince]

or supposed sightings of workers supposedly not working

Well, I've been quiet for a while, but this is the second time you've basically called me a liar in this thread. I notice you didn't refute any of the facts I presented in the beginning about what the union worker lost in a strike and how long it took them to make it up. I do freely admit that I forgot to take strike pay into consideration, but that only makes it about 25% less time to make up. It's still almost 3 years to make up the loss in my scenerio, and the bosses still collect FULL pay!!!

And, I can tell you that the workers (using that term loosely) I've personally seen (not "supposedly" seen) have NOT been working. You can't tell me, even with your superior union knowledge, that napping for nearly an hour in a company vehicle is an authorized break. It's what's called a "Union Break," but it's not an authorized break. I drive the same streets in our town all day long and see it over and over again.

I've not stated it before, because I was being respectful. But, I will say now, loud and proud, whenever I get the chance to cross a picket line, I do it! Even if I'm not really patronizing the pickettee! I'm one more person they couldn't intimidate!

And, by the way, your 'fact' that the UAW hasn't held a strike since the '70's doesn't hide the fact that they've heavily used the strike threat to push negotiations along. Having LIVED in a UAW household, this is not "supposed" information. It's fact!!!

Chuck (not Rich)