Glimpses of the future or gimmicks that'll fade into obscurity?

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Multi-Orbit Wash Arms Etc.

These are very sound ways of helping move water around inside a DW and past uses of this technolgy caused almost no service problems.

 

F&P dish drawers like all DWs ever made have sumps where the water collects as it renters the pump. And yes F&P DWs [ like all DWs ever made can do a good job cleaning dishes ] But they have one of the worst sump traps of any DW currently made in that they collect almost all of the food particles and hold it in the machine for you to clean out. And of coerce all the water your dishes are rinsed with is pulled through this garbage.

 

I know of almost no DW made in the last 10 years that still fills with at least two gallons of water per fill. as a result manufacturers have had to slow down the pumps power because so much water would be in the air that the pump would surge and starve for water.

 

MT RR DWs actually moved very little water compared to almost all other US machines of the same time period. They used very fine hi pressure jets with good filtering to achieve great cleaning. But if your ever saw one running next to a KA or WP there was no comparison in over all water movement.

 

To me the biggest gimmick today is the WP built DW with the dedicated Turbo-Zone area in the back of the lower rack or the dedicated silver-ware shower. The last thing I want to worry about when loading a DW is trying to put ONE very dirty item in a particular spot. I want to be able to load the machine in the most sensible way and get every thing clean, NOT just one really dirty item. When I make a large meal I often have at least a half dozen very dirty utensils from the cook-top or oven to deal with.
 
@combo52

Well, the 2007 Electrolux/Dishlex we had used a two stage filter, once again running water thru both when dirty. I wouldn't say self cleaning filters or food disposal are common in the low-mid range machines here. No-one has food disposal (I get the feelings governments may be the cause of this), and no-one can be stuffed unblocking pipes, so the water is filtered, and the filter works incredibly well.

I'm not sure that the dish drawer uses the kidney shaped filter during wash, as the pipe coming off is used for the drain, and in that way, no water would get filtered. It has to go thru the filter plate and directly the the impeller (under wash arm), or go thru the filter plate, then go underneath it thru the kidney filter and into the drain/recirc sump.
However those Kiwi's came up with it, I don't know. But I do know that i've only ever found redeposited stuff when there are eggs involved (lots of egg on spatulas, etc, which don't clean in that machine for whatever reasons). Otherwise, everything we've ever chucked at when (when loaded properly), has come out sparkling. ANd a lot of this really dirty stuff was not pre-rinsed and barely scraped, but we still used the normal or normal eco cycle...
 
Oops, forgot something.

Never seen a dishwasher with food disposal, not the 1302 Asko, not in a dishlex. I don't think that Food/Garbage Disposal systems on the sink are even legal in this country (safety hazard - i.e. Electrocution, loss of finger etc). Although, I'm sure someone will pick me up on that...

So, at least in Australia, dishwashers which full water thru "yucky filters" still reign king (from seeing various Dishlex, LG, F&P, Baumatic, Westinghouse machines at stores).

So How do self cleaning filters work? Do they use 4L of water to flush away dirt at the end of wash, 1st rinse, 2nd rinse etc?
 
When it takes 90-140 minutes to wash the dishes, conserving water etc etc.. what is really happening is the dishes are getting an extended soak cycle. Most anything will wash away pretty easily after it's been wet for that length of time.
 
@petek

Yes, you are very right about that. So are Miele's and Askos of today really that good, or are they made to soak the dishes?

I've opened some machines just after they start (including our dish-drawer). Most of the "knerr" and stuff on the plates is usually in the water around 2-3 minutes into the cycle, but some grease is left on the plates.

I really think the amount of time taken is in relation to water heating, allowing enzymes in detergent to attack, etc. The dishwasher might be capable of washing in 1hr or less, but modern detergents and their "environmentally friendly" formulae cap the washer's ability to operate.
 
disposers

washer111

That's interesting about garbage diposals not being common your country. It might be interesting to do a web search of your local laws. It may be that they are not illegal, but just an uncommon appliance.

If they are illegal, it might be due to some politician's idea that they couldt overtax the sewage system. They were actually invented to cut down on disease tranmission by putting garbage down the drain that would otherwise attract and be a breeding ground for vermin (rodents, maggots, flies, bacteria)
in trash cans and dump grounds.

I doubt if it is a safety concern that would make them illegal. I would step out on a limb and say disposers are most likely one of the safest appliances ever made. A common misconception is that there are spinning blades in the grind chamber, which there are not.

If you look inside a unit, you'll see a turntable, and on the periphery of the turntable, are impellers. The cutting edges are stationary and mounted around the lower circumference of the grind chamber.

Let's say you drop a bananna peel in. It hits the turntable and centrifugal force takes it on a little ride to the impeller (which is blunt, no sharpness) and holds it against the cutters which shred it as it goes around.

Kinda like if you hade a bunch of people on a merry-go-round and turned up the rpm to 1725. the people would go flying off at the periphery. Think of the horses around the edge of the merry-go-round as impellers. (sometimes impellers are fixed, and are little more than protrusions in the turntable, sometimes they swivel to help avoid jams.)

You could stick your finger in an operating disposal and touch the center of the rotating turntable, with no danger. Not that I would recommend it, because if you got off center you might get nicked by a rind flipper or the edge of the impeller.

The point is, I have seen other people who think disposers are dangerous. My cousin's wife would not allow the builder to put one in their home as she was afraid someone would lose a hand. If you wanted to hurt yourself in a disposer, you would actually have to make an effort to do so. If someone is really that afraid, they make "batch-feed" models which only start when you place the cover in the sink opening.

Electrocution?? No more than any appliance that uses electricity and water. Your washer, dishwasher, whirlpool tub, etc. In a dishwasher and hot water tank you even have an heating electrically charged heating element immersed in water.

Disposers must be grounded. And in houses with metal plumbing you have even a third level of safety (electrical neutral first level, ground wire second level and grounded metal plumbing third level.)

Even if all three levels failed you yourself would have to be ground to make the current flow through you if there should be an electrical fault.

Check you local codes and see if disposers are legal. If not, get one. You will love it, I guarantee!!!
 
It may be that they are not illegal, but just an uncommon ap

In fact, in some parts of Europe they were illegal till some years ago.
France and Italy are two examples!
In Italy they were illegal since 2003 if I recall correctly and somewhere are still illegal in France!
Because of the "strain" they put on the sewage system
 
@dj-gabrielle

Heres the thing. My locality uses treated sewage to water 3 local parks (all next to each other).

We have no storm-water drains, but during wet weather those irrigation systems run constantly - why? Since our sewer treatment is around 4/5 small ponds, and the system cannot support our growing area well. So garbage disposal may be illegal here, since it would add lots of pressure on older plumbing systems within the area.

Our house has issues with plumbing too, there are 2 separate connections to the junction box feed (our house and some others share a common connection to the main sewer. One of these connectors from the bathrooms (w/ toilets, showers and water softener drain connected) gets blocked, since the softener drain was filled with dirt, and roots are down there. The other is the kitchen drain, with the washer connected downstream a little.

We know of people in other countries who used them, and the wives husbands refused to clean the drains (which blocked frequently), and would instead call plumbers. Be interesting to see if drain-o or whatever would clear that...
 
Same story here. Garbage disposals can't be bought anywhere. I only know of one online retailer that sells them here - along with trash compactors.
 
drain clogs

In general, Disposers do not cause drain clogs, but poor plumbing does.

In the U.S., I must say we do have good plumbing codes, and any home built in the last 30 to 40 years will not experience any clogs from a food waste disposer unless the plumber did something stupid.

Modern plumbing uses 1 and a 1/2 inch drain pipes under the sink, 2 inches for the main branch lines and 4 inch trunk lines. With the force that diposers shove waste through the line, trust me, there will not be a clog.

The only exception I have seen, once again is due to plumber stupidity (or I should say cheapness.)

I have bought two new home where the plumber, hired by the builder, used a disposer "T" pipe. If you go to a home improvement store you can often find these in a disposer installation kit, as they are designed for the homeowner who is basically ignorant of plumbing methods.

It is a tailpipe that is under one side of the sink that has an opening on the side so you can pipe a disposer straight into it from the other side of the sink.

If you look inside of this pipe, you will see a deflector. So when the waste goes into the pipe from the disposal, it is immediately forced to make a 90 degree turn and shoot down the drain. You only have a 1 1/2 inch pipe and the deflector forces the wastes to make an immediate 90 degree turn in only half of that space. So you are forcing large volumes of food waste to make an instant 90 degree turn in only a 3/4 inch opening.

Needless to say, this is the point of clogging...especially with fibrous waste. It's bad enough for a consumer to be stupid enough to use one of these "drain pipes for idiots", but there is no excuse for a professional to use one.

Oftentimes, builders hire plumbers who are the cheapest. A disposer "T" saves the plumber maybe a couple of dollars (max) of piping and a lot of time. So they do the quickest, cheapest, easiest thing they can then do on to the next job.

Sad, isn't it.

The other sad thing is when they do this, they have to mount the disposer so the
waste pipe exits from the side. Since disposer are made, by the manufacturer with the exit pipe in the rear of the machine, the plmber has to rotate the disposer forty-five degrees.

So when you look under the sink, it's an ugly and unprofessional sight. You are not looking at the front of the machine, which was designed to face out. You are looking at an ugly sight of a machine whose logo can't be read and looking at a waste piple that should be hidden and now is in full view, sticking straight out the side of the machine.

So when the homeowner gets a clog, and they most likely will. they blame the disposer. It has nothing to do with the disposer it is due to human stupidity of the plumber or ignorant homeowner that chose the cheap, unprofessional and utterly assinine way to mount a precision piece of equipment. Most manufacturer's literature, that I have seen, specifically says NOT to mount their disposal in that manner.

If a person's I.Q. is not high enough to realize that a sharp 90 turn in a constricted environment is likely to cause problems, they are not intelligent enough to own a disposer.

They should just buy a pig and keep it outside their back door and throw scraps to it. Since someone stupid enough to have a disposer mounted that way is stupid enough to rinse dishes before putting them in a dishwasher, they might as well lay their soiled dishes on the ground and let the pig lick them before loading them into the dishwasher. It would save a lot of water.

Even better, they can put the dishes right back into the cabinet after the pig licks them clean. This would be very "green" and conserve our natural resources. And the pig might, just might, meet our government's Energy Star requirements.

Okay, I am just having a little fun with sarcasm and exaggeration today. But it is somewhat of a pet peeve of mine (as you probably noticed) to have people blame an appliance when the problem actually lies with the installer or user.
 
Garbage disposals are legal in Australia

Although, I wouldn't be surprised if some councils have considered banning them on the advice of over-zealous environmentalists.

I have seen them in many homes and upmarket units during the 80s and 90s. A lot of new high rise units here in Sydney, up in Brisbane and in Cairns have them as well. My parents had KitchenAid disposal put in the first house they bought in Sydney during the early 1980s and my home in Cairns came with a disposal as well.

They are particularly useful in flats to dispose of food waste that would otherwise stink out the communal trash and attract vermin (think hot summer months and tropical heat). It is also far more preferable to send food waste through a garbage disposal than to flush it down the toilet, which a lot of people do (apart from all kinds of other stuff). That is why I don't understand the comment regarding sewage treatment facilities being overloaded because of garbage disposals; it makes no sense.

Twenty years ago one could buy GE, KitchenAid and Insikerator disposals. Now it's only Insinkerator. Maybe they are the only company interested in manufacturing their product for export. I am not aware of garbage disposals being manufactured in Europe or Asia and other US companies don't seem interested in selling them in Australia.

They are expensive. The cheapest starts at $400 and the ToL costs over a thousand dollars; not including installation costs. For a first home buyer or owner-builder it's probably not a justifiable expense or priority unless they are buying an older house that already has one.
 
N.B.

Most appliance and kitchen retailers offer Insinkerators as part of their appliance line up. They are not hard to find and readily available.
 
I am not aware of garbage disposals being manufactured in Eu

Oh, they are, simply aren't that common as elsewhere.
As an example here you could buy them from Whirlpool, GE, Insinkerator but also from Nardi (Italian brand), Foster (another Italian brand).
And prices start at around 150 euros and up to 700!
 
dj-gabrielle

If garbage disposals are illegal in Italy and most of Europe, why would they still manufacture them? I haven't heard of these brands nor seen them sold over here ever.

BTW, I suspect that garbage disposals are mandated for high density housing by some councils in Sydney's inner west, because almost all of the new developments in those areas have them as a standard inclusion.
 
It's DJ_Gabriele (SINGLE "L") please! ;)

Second, I said that now they are legal in Italy. (it wasn't 2003 but 2006 according to wikipedia that also pinpoints to the relevant law)
And also I attached you a link to the Foster page regarding the disposer if you want to know more.
Foster make fine looking appliances, almost as stylish as SMEG!

http://www.fosterspa.com/Prodotti/rm/Accessori/Dissipatore-per-rifiuti-alimentari
 
It's DJ_Gabriele (SINGLE "L") please! ;)

Sorry, it was a sloppy cut and paste job late in the night and I was never the best at spelling bee.

Well, Foster looks like a regular BoL/MoL disposer. Now, if only I had paid attention during Latin I could read the description, but I didn't.

Now, what is 'tappo convogliatore' used for? And when would you stick that thing in your disposer? Is this a continuous or a batch feeder?

On another note, I did find some material on composting and food waste disposers issued by Willoughby Council here in Sydney. They did also list food waste disposals as a way of dealing with organic waste, but further down the document there was a paragraph stating that Sydney Water discourages the installation of them for various reasons (they use electricity and water). They are definitely not illegal (yet), but I am sure someone will eventually try. If we have another drought I bet there'll be some greeny jumping up and down about them.

If it was up to them there'd be one communal tap and one communal power point for every ten households. The way they are pricing utilities over here, any household earning less than 150 K per year won't be able to afford them without government subsidies before long.
 
Disposers and plumbing

Disposers are good for plumbing systems as they help keep the drains clean with all the ground matter. Here in Washington DC Disposers are REQUIRED in all home kitchens and commercial food establishments. If waste water is properly treated disposers are GOOD for the environment as the collected materiel decomposes quickly and is returned to use as fertilizer. Disposers are also a good thing for septic systems as it adds greatly to the amount of beneficial material that goes into the septic tank.

 

Disposers are similar to the back-flush self-cleaning lint filters that WP-KM used on their washers for over 25 years in that they actually helped keep laundry drains clean with the scrubbing effect of lint being flushed down all at once.
 
Interesting you should mention about droughts, greenies and how disposers actually help keep drains clean. Certainly, if we used a septic tank, I might consider one more - it might help keep those sprinklers at the local park unblocked!

(@rapunzel) But with all the droughts in this country, its amazing they haven't banned gardens, showers, baths, sinks, taps, washers, etc yet! I know Sydney, Melbourne and all that had it pretty damn hard for around 8 years. But now, the rain just doesn't stop over there. Couldya send some over to Perth? They desperately need the water!
I think global warming and all that is starting, since its gotten more humid in Perth for sure in recent years, and the summers here have cooled down, and wetted up (air wise) significantly these past few years.

Maybe I should just go to good ol' WA (USA) one day, meet the president and all that fun stuff :) That way I don't have to worry so much about the world, if you get what I'm saying. My government will fix it...
 
"But with all the droughts in this country, its amazing

Mate, they won't have to ban anyhing. They'll just price everything out of the reach of ordinary people. Successive state and federal governments have been doing exactly this by degrees over the past 10 years, so that people won't get too upset. They underpin this with propaganda and misinformation to garner public support and compliance. Precedent has taught our politicians that, as Australians, most of us put up and shut up and they can do whatever they want.

Our electricity infrastructure is owned by the Chinese now, who get generous tax breaks from the government to stimulate infrastructure investment, whilst consumers are being price gouged.

On the issue of garbage disposalls in commercial kitchens, I totally agree with combo52. Here any commercial kitchen has to run its drains through a grease trap, no insinkerators allowed. I've seen the gluggy mess that gets flushed down the sink and it ain't pretty. Unfortunately, here we also like to do everything the hard way and pragmatic solutions like garbage disposals in food preparation businesses are too complicated for our bureaucrats.

Another pet peeve of mine, for as long as I've lived here, are our plumbing regulations, which ban American standard kitchen sinks with mixer faucet and separate sprayer. A system that's been around and has proven itself for over 50 years.

When we first came here most kitchen sinks didn't use mixer taps and the idea of a sprayer was simply not conceivable as a real plumbing fixture. Apparently they don't allow the separate sprayer because they don't retract automatically and, if left lying in a sink full of contaminated water, they could syphon that water back into the clean water supply (which is a total crap explanation and shows a complete lack of understanding).

Now they allow the European faucets, with the nylon extension hose, that can be used as a sprayer and is built as one unit. Knowing how they work, I can't see why they should be any safer as the American system. I believe these regulations are designed, not so much to ensure safety and quality, but to limit consumer choice, education and keep prices high.
 

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