Health Care and the US

[ronhic]

I'm confused.

I've just read President Obama's speech on health care reform on the BBC News site yet, have read elsewhere that thousands have protested about it?

To someone from a country where we all have to pay for basic health care through taxes (Medicare levy) and the more you earn, the more you pay...fair enough....and you pay even more if you are a high earner without private cover...

...and where employer provided health care is almost non-existant, but private insurance is alive and well (I currently pay about USD$85 per month after tax for private cover) and is subsidised with incentives so that you don't pay more than a 30yr old would no matter how old you are provided you took insurance out before you turned 30....

What is being said and suggested just sounds so good and fair for a country such as the US...and nobody should ever...let me repeat that EVER, come even remotely close to losing their home due to medical bills...OR have their fund change tact on them just when they need it...

SOooooo....

Can someone enlighten us Australians, Brits, Europeans and Canadians why is there such a fuss when the cost is meant to come from savings AND there is no change for those in existing plans (according to the address below).

Oh...and can I have fact please, not some scare mongering vitriole from an advertising campaign sponsered/paid for by a health fund...

BBC NEWS | Americas | Obama health speech: Full text

news.bbc.co.uk

 

[ronhic]

And....

.....the news article here about the protests

Australian News Headlines | World News Now

The latest news and headlines from trusted journalists. Get breaking news stories and in-depth coverage with videos and photos.

au.news.yahoo.com

 

[sudsmaster]

You're not the only one who is confused...

I think a large part of the anti-healthcare movement here is really an anti-Obama sentiment. As in, "If he's for it, I'm agin it" type of philosophy.

There are very powerful private interests (read: very profitable medical insurance companies) who are pulling out all the stops to try to misrepresent and discredit the current proposals.

And there seems to be an abundance of less-than-intelligent people out there who will believe the junk about "death panels" and "socialized medicine" etc...

 

[hoovermatic]

British MEP's slagging off the NHS on US television hasn't exactly enlightened the debate I imagine. In fact, an MEP saying ANYTHING about ANYTHING is enough to destroy the will to live.

 

[maytagbear]

MEP ????

Darling, please translate that for this very stupid American.

Major Economy Position?

Modern Electric Potential?

I am terribly confused, and I dislike being confused. Deeply.

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[gyrafoam]

I think the current estimate is somewhere around $350M for the amount of monies the Republican party has poured into the current "dis-information" drive.
Trying to stir-up a "grass-roots" anti-government movement. What they are really upset about is their lack of control in the matter.
As Suds has mentioned, it is really more of an Anti-Obama movement. The Republicans have had nearly 75 years to do something since the "New Deal" and have largely stood in the way of any real healthcare reform. One gets the impression that the party has been totally bought and paid for by health care and insurance company lobbyists. Of course, then there are the so called "blue-dog" Democrats (actually "yellow-dog" would be much more appropriate) who are also bought and paid for by the extremely powerful healthcare/insurance lobby. It would be much better for us all if we could keep politics out of this whole thing. As it is, out political system is badly broken.

There is also a double-standard going on here. Back when the Republicans controlled both houses they regularly shoved their agenda down the throats of all Americans-----and that was all right. Now that the Democrats are in control----and poised to do the same thing----the Republicans are screaming bloody murder. Like a spoiled child. The Rebublicans have become very adapt at it (screaming) and the Democrats, as usual, sit around scratching their intellectual heads going "whay are they screaming, we wouldn't scream at them"!
DUH!

I can understand why people want less government intrusion. But sometimes it takes the power of the government to force the hand of the private sector into doing the "right thing".
I believe that is what is happening now.
Debate is a good thing. It is healthy for America and it will make for a much better healthcare plan.

It won't be perfect-----AND it will be a hell of a lot better than NOTHING------ which is what millions of Americans have now. In time----- the kinks will be hammered-out.

Like demons at an exorcisim, the powerful healthcare/insurance lobby will scream bloody murder to serve its own interests which are, of course, pure profit. It will use any and every platform it can to try and stop the government from intervening. But the greed does have to stop somewhere.

I would agree with Obama on one point for sure. There has been years of talk and discussion. "Now, it is time to act".

 

[maytagbear]

And, for those who say they

do not want "Government Health Care," I have three words.

"Veterans Administration,"

"Medicare,"

"Medicaid."

Most doctors whom I have talked with welcome the idea of Health Care FINANCE reform.

To call this "Health Care Reform," is simply incorrect, and wrong minded.

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[hoover1100]

MEP

Member of the European Parliament.



Matt

 

[rapunzel]

nobody should ever come even remotely close to losing their

Here in Australia people do come very close to losing their homes and life savings due to medical and related bills. You go and talk to people in regional Australia where often there aren't even the most basic services available. Then take someone who developes a serious chronic or terminal illness, who has to leave their home, employment/business to shift to a major city (usually Melbourne or Sydney), to get specialized treatment. Not only do they lose or experience a significant cut in their incomes, they have to arrange for alternative accomodation and related expenses involved with (temporary and often recurring) relocation. If they go in as private patients there is usually a significant gap that they need to pay. If they go public they have to go on a waiting list. Some specialists, such as urologists, don't even go through the public system anymore. Thus, getting timely treatments without private insurance becomes a major issue.

There is no such thing as equal access to high quality health care in this country and some people do have to put their homes up for sale to get the care they need. Even within our major cities there are huge discrepancies in health care services and how they are(not) delivered to the public. If one is lucky enough to be attached to a postcode that has a good public hospital, things are usually not so bad. Though, if one happens to live in an area where services are chronically underfunded, things become a little more difficult and expensive. A lot of people do not qualify for financial support. Not because they are rich and can afford to spend the money, but bacause they are just above the cut-off.

Then there is this rediculous 'life time cover' initiative that was introduced by the Howard Government. Anyone over the age of thirty has to pay a 2% penalty for every year they fail to take out private insurance, (in my case) effective from the date that policy was introduced. Thus many people pay 20% or more on top of their regular insurance premiums. That is actually giving preferential treatment to an idustry, which also happens to be blatant age discrimination. I am particularly p*ssed off, because I have always had private hospital insurance from the day I joined the workforce. As fate should have it, I lost my job around the time that policy was introduced and had to ditch my health insurance. When I was finally able to re-purchase insurance, the amnesty period had expired. The fact that I had had full private health cover for over 20 years before didn't make a bloody ounce of difference.

Our health care system is in urgent need of reform. In fact, I would feel much more comfortable if I were living in the US and covered under the American Medicare system than our own. Frankly, here in Australia we have absolutely no cause to act all hoity toity about our own health care and look down our noses at the US. Most Australians don't even have a clue how the American system really works or the things that are available to people there (like fully funded 24 hour home nursing care). They just feed on (exaggerated) stories of thousands of hapless families having their termianlly ill children turned out on the streets because they have no insurance.

rapunzel

 

[maytagbear]

Thank you,

Matt.

I hope you have a pleasant day!

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[maytagbear]

Rapunzel--

Here in the States, "Medicare" is for the elderly (65 and up, with certain exceptions.

Medicaid, or in California, Medical is for people who are seriously poor, yet meet certain criteria...health status, limited assets....and there are very strict conditions which have to be met to qualify. Plus, at least here in Ohio, persons on Medicaid have twice-yearly recertifications, in which their bank statements and utility bills, and other documents are scrutinised.

L/Mb

 

[ronhic]

Rapunzel....

....That is not good about your own private health insurance issue...

My fund appear to have been much more accomodating

....I was out of the country for over 3yrs and managed to ask my fund to put my membership on hold, which they did. I even failed to reactivate my policy until 6months after I returned (and started working) and they allowed me to restart the policy without penalty provided I backpaid 5mths (1mth grace) worth of premiums, which I did.....

...and I'll certainly be asking a few of my doctor (a cousin) and nursing friends to cooborate your feelings on our health system....especially since my manager at works' father has terminal cancer and lives 'on the land' away from major centres of care...her families outlook and the impact of both care cost and travel cost are very relevant.

 

[bajaespuma]

Greedy, racist, STUPID, Republicans

I'm so glad you brought this up.

As many people have said, if ANY Republican or Democrat member of Congress or the House is opposed to Government-run Healthcare for the People of the United States, THEY SHOULD GIVE THEIRS UP IMMEDIATELY WITHOUT QUESTION OR DELAY.

Secondly, any fool that thinks Bernie Madoff and his buddies are going to do a better job managing their health needs than the government should give all of their money to Mr. Madoff and his colleagues and speed up their eventual demise.

My Father ran the Manhattan VA Hospital for 30 years. It was a difficult job but he was proud to provide service for his fellow veterans.Despite problems at other VA's such as the one in the Bronx, they provided high quality care for the men and women who sacrificed their lives for this country. My Father always voted Democratic in Presidential elections even though he was, mostly, a conservative because he would say, "I'm voting for my job. Every Republican wants nothing more than to dismantle the VA and deny veterans their contractual care". In the seventies, he and most of his colleagues agreed that Socialized Medicine was an inevitability because of the rising cost of medical technology and the burgeoning list of specialists.

Anyone who has anything to say about government-run health care needs to first examine the health care systems of Japan, Germany, Sweden, France, the Netherlands and just about any Modern free country.

Is anybody out there besides the politicans and other parasites happy with their health insurance? I have a friend who is 57 and just lost her job and would have had to pay 900 dollars a month in COBRA fees had it not been for changes that the Obama administration made recently.

These idiots are worried about taxes when were all paying thousands of dollars a year to a bunch of greedy corporations whose job it is to deny us coverage to increase their profits.

Profit-driven health care is neither healthy nor caring.

 

[cleanteamofny]

I consider this as leveling the playing field.
Under the current system only the working class is able to afford such medical benefits.
But here's the real kicker, if one loses a job and has no heath benefits ends up in the ER and cannot pay the bills then who pays?
The state?
And then where does it get passed down to?
The tax payers.
So who in the ends get hit twice?
The poor or the working class?
This maddness got to end.......

 

[sudsmaster]

Rapunzel...

" Most Australians don't even have a clue how the American system really works or the things that are available to people there (like fully funded 24 hour home nursing care). "

I guess that would include you?

The only way one gets "fully funded 24 hour home nursing care" is as follows:

1) One must have enough money to pay the $7000/month fee that such nursing homes charge.

2) One must find a nursing home that will agree to switch to a Medicaid funded program once the patient qualifies. Medicaid pays about 15% less than full price, so not all homes agree to this.

3) The patient qualifies once he or she has "spent down" ALL their assets in this world to less than $2000. You're complaining about people having to relocate for treatment in Australia, having to sell their homes? The ONLY way to get fully funded 24 hour nursing home care in this country is to not only sell one's home, but sell virtually all one's possessions and drain one's savings until one is as poor as a homeless person.

I can't believe you think this is better than whatever you have going in Australia.

 

[rapunzel]

'Medicare" is for the elderly'

Doesn't it also cover people with certain disabilities? From my understanding, it is a very good system. Pity it isn't available to everyone. When I turn 65 I may well be back in the States. The way we are going right now over here, we may well adopt the current American model when you will finally get your national single pay health care system over there(I'm being a smidge facetious here).

The previous 'conservative' government systematically and stealthily worked to undermine our medicare system. John Howard never made any bones about the fact that he preferred completely privatized health care based on the current US model. In fact, just before his party got the boot in the early ninteen eighties, they abolished the national system that was called medibank at the time. Don't think that the current Labor gov. is any better - they are nothing more than a bunch of trained, elitist parlor poodles, who urinate on this country and its people from lofty heights.

Rhonic,

That's nice that your fund was more accomodating - sadly I don't share your experience and spent far too many phone calls talking to disinterested idiots. Don't worry about me tho, I'm not destitute (yet) and, yes, I am fully insured.

I work with our health care system and feel it every day. Like most people you don't want to know the systemic failures that occur and it is better that way. Based on my experiences with doctors, specialists and other allied health professoinals, more than half are only in it for the money. We (consumers of health care services) would be a lot safer and they would be a lot more useful stacking shelves at Woolies.

 

[rapunzel]

sudsmaster

There is no such thing as fully funded 24 hour home care available over here. Currently the government has begun to offer financial packages to those who qualify, which buys them a set number of home care hours every week. Anything extra has to be paid for privately tho.

If someone chooses to move to a full-care facility, such as a hostel or nursing home, their assets are means tested by the government. Usually, unless assets are classified as a working business, EVERYTHING must be sold. Facilities charge from $250,000 upwards for a room or small apartment. There is a modest amount that remains in the possession of the care recipient - I am pretty sure that it is less than $10,000, but more than $2000. The bulk of the money from the liquidated assets is then held in trust and invested by the facility. They also charge a set percentage or part thereof over a four or five year period from the total sum. That charge is non-refundable and approx. 15%. If one then choses to move to another facility, all remaining funds get transferred to the new place and the process begins anew. If you die the remaining money that was held in trust is then returned to the beneficiaries of your deceased's estate. On top of all that there is still a daily fee which is either paid by the government or by the resident, depending on their financial circumstances. There are all sorts of other contractural conditions regarding the timely payments of fees, daily interest for late payments etc and so on.

The government doesn't want people in residential facilities anymore. They have found that it is cheaper to care for people in their own homes, but they will not fund 24 hour care.

I am all for health care reform in the US - it is long overdue. The same applies here in Australia. I've already explained my position previously.

rapunzel

 

[hoovermatic]

MEP

M = Moronic
E = Excessively Paid
P = Pointless

Simples x

 

[peterh770]

This current version of our government has absolute no interest in doing anything for doctors and real health providers to lower the cost of providing medical care. The way the bill stands now, it is one big huge insurance scam and a way for them to increase the size of govt and our dependence on it. PresBO is stumping on the campaign trail instead of staying home and actually acting like an executive, not a candidate. He needs to quit micromanaging Congress and playing Chicken Little.

CLEAN HOUSE IN 2010 and 2012.