I have read on a site on the net that heating oil has a higher heat output that gas does. Maybe that's why we find it way up north more than anywhere else. I know that many places didn't have gas service, so this was the fuel of choice. How many of you use Heating oil? I also didn't know that there was such a thing as oil-fired water heaters. The interworkings of the oil furnace is interesting especially for someone like me who has never seen oil burners. Gas or electricity is all we use here. With so much going for it, you would think it would be more widely available than it is.
Heating Oil vs gas
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Oil-fired central heating has been popular over here for a long time as once you get outside the cities the population becomes rather scattered with one-off homes etc so it's not really economic to hook every home up to gas.
Although, that being said, it's still quite common to find oil-fired systems in areas that are well served by natural gas.
Our central heating system actually has 3 seperate and totally independent heat sources that all heat the same water that circulates through the radiators.
1) Natural Gas
2) Oil
3) Solid Fuel (the boiler's located at the back of the fireplace)
To change fuel is just a simple matter of adjusting a few valves and pump switches.
We haven't used the oil system in quite a while as the price of heating oil is relatively high at the moment and it's just not good value for money compared to natural gas and the fire place only really gets used on special occasions e.g. around christmas time.
Heating systems here typically have 3 circuits of hot water pipes, the radiators in 2 areas (E.g. upstairs and downstairs) connect to two of these while another circuit goes through a heat exchanger immersed in the hot water tank. There is also an electrical heating element in this tank to provide hot water if the central heating is switched off (in summer etc)
There are various different configurations around and controls vary from complex systems of room thermostats and electromechanical valves or thermostatic valves mounted at each radiator. There are also various different levels of sophistication on programmers to control the system. The most simple being an electromechanical time clock the most complex being pretty fancy computerised programmers.
Here's a diagram of the system: (in our case there would be 3 boilers)
The square unit on that system represents the boiler and the cylinder is the hotwater tank.
There are two head tanks in the attic (standard in most UK/Irish homes)... one is the head tank for the heating system the other is for the hot/cold water for bathrooms. Kitchens, washing machines and dishwashers take their cold water directly from the water main coming into the house.
The drawback of this system is that the pressure for showers can be bordering on pathetic as it's gravity fed. However, many homes have a double headded pump that kicks in instantanoulsy once the shower draws water giving you an extremely good high pressure powershower (or multiple power showers).
Although, that being said, it's still quite common to find oil-fired systems in areas that are well served by natural gas.
Our central heating system actually has 3 seperate and totally independent heat sources that all heat the same water that circulates through the radiators.
1) Natural Gas
2) Oil
3) Solid Fuel (the boiler's located at the back of the fireplace)
To change fuel is just a simple matter of adjusting a few valves and pump switches.
We haven't used the oil system in quite a while as the price of heating oil is relatively high at the moment and it's just not good value for money compared to natural gas and the fire place only really gets used on special occasions e.g. around christmas time.
Heating systems here typically have 3 circuits of hot water pipes, the radiators in 2 areas (E.g. upstairs and downstairs) connect to two of these while another circuit goes through a heat exchanger immersed in the hot water tank. There is also an electrical heating element in this tank to provide hot water if the central heating is switched off (in summer etc)
There are various different configurations around and controls vary from complex systems of room thermostats and electromechanical valves or thermostatic valves mounted at each radiator. There are also various different levels of sophistication on programmers to control the system. The most simple being an electromechanical time clock the most complex being pretty fancy computerised programmers.
Here's a diagram of the system: (in our case there would be 3 boilers)
The square unit on that system represents the boiler and the cylinder is the hotwater tank.
There are two head tanks in the attic (standard in most UK/Irish homes)... one is the head tank for the heating system the other is for the hot/cold water for bathrooms. Kitchens, washing machines and dishwashers take their cold water directly from the water main coming into the house.
The drawback of this system is that the pressure for showers can be bordering on pathetic as it's gravity fed. However, many homes have a double headded pump that kicks in instantanoulsy once the shower draws water giving you an extremely good high pressure powershower (or multiple power showers).
Large oil fired boiler.
Here's a rather large oil fired boiler used in a central heating system in a larger house in Ireland. Not unusual over here, I'm not sure if they're used that much in the UK though.
Smaller homes would have a unit that looks physically identical to this but is shorter (about the size of a european washing machine)
The pressure jet burner is the unit sticking out of the front.
It basically consists of a fan, an oil pump, a sparking electrode and some electronic / relay gear to monitor the system.
Basically what happens is this:
Oil (similar to kerosine) is pumped through a very fine nozzle (Atomiser) creating a fine spray. Meanwhile a fan blows air into the combustion chamber. This is ignited by the sparking electrode (Similar to a spark plug on a car). A solar cell (light detecting device) monitors to ensure that the mixture has properly igited.
The user / service person has to adjust the mixture of air and oil correctly to ensure optimal burning. So, you look into the combustion chamber via a little viewing flap and adjust the damper on the boiler until the flame looks the correct colour.
(this generally only has to be done once although changes in fuel oil types can require a readjustment)
They're extremely clean burning, producing no smoke or smell when running efficiently.
They normally have a tall chimney like flue.
The only drawback is that the units are quite noisy creating quite a rumble. So, in many irish homes that were fitted out with these machines in the 1950s-80s they're housed in a small boiler room that is seperate from the house. (typically a few feet away from the main building) or at the very least in a well sound proofed entirely brick built shed that opens to the outside of the house but is still part of the same structure.
Putting your gym equipment into the boiler room is NOT a good idea unless you like sweating!
(again a typical unit is about half this size but pretty much identical otherwise.. this unit is extra large as it's heating a particularly big sprawling house)
Here's a rather large oil fired boiler used in a central heating system in a larger house in Ireland. Not unusual over here, I'm not sure if they're used that much in the UK though.
Smaller homes would have a unit that looks physically identical to this but is shorter (about the size of a european washing machine)
The pressure jet burner is the unit sticking out of the front.
It basically consists of a fan, an oil pump, a sparking electrode and some electronic / relay gear to monitor the system.
Basically what happens is this:
Oil (similar to kerosine) is pumped through a very fine nozzle (Atomiser) creating a fine spray. Meanwhile a fan blows air into the combustion chamber. This is ignited by the sparking electrode (Similar to a spark plug on a car). A solar cell (light detecting device) monitors to ensure that the mixture has properly igited.
The user / service person has to adjust the mixture of air and oil correctly to ensure optimal burning. So, you look into the combustion chamber via a little viewing flap and adjust the damper on the boiler until the flame looks the correct colour.
(this generally only has to be done once although changes in fuel oil types can require a readjustment)
They're extremely clean burning, producing no smoke or smell when running efficiently.
They normally have a tall chimney like flue.
The only drawback is that the units are quite noisy creating quite a rumble. So, in many irish homes that were fitted out with these machines in the 1950s-80s they're housed in a small boiler room that is seperate from the house. (typically a few feet away from the main building) or at the very least in a well sound proofed entirely brick built shed that opens to the outside of the house but is still part of the same structure.
Putting your gym equipment into the boiler room is NOT a good idea unless you like sweating!
(again a typical unit is about half this size but pretty much identical otherwise.. this unit is extra large as it's heating a particularly big sprawling house)
I wouldn't say there is no oil heat anymore here in Canada I've never encountered it in more than 20+. By the 50's in the older urban areas most people went straight from the old coal octupuses in the basements to natural gas except for that brief blip in the 60's with the previously mentioned Live Better Electrically campaign but that was aimed more at the new home market. Country folk tend towards propane (UK bottle gas)as most gas furnaces and appliances are an easy conversion. Hydronic systems of any sort also faded away except in apartment buildings for the most part. Other than the new craze of underfloor heating which is actually an old idea resurrected from the 1950's Wonder Home bungalows that sprouted up all over N.America then disappeared again.
Mrx-thanks for the diagram and accompaning info-Irealize there are many ways to heat a home, oil being an option, nat. gas propane elec. I have been thinking and material shopping on the net trying to design a home that would energy efficient in the southern us where cooling is the big problem- more later.
Pete-propane bills are so high around here, just noses out electricity for cost. Isn't it prohibitively expensive up there? I believe that lp does put out more heat than natural gas if i'm not mistaken.
Pete-propane bills are so high around here, just noses out electricity for cost. Isn't it prohibitively expensive up there? I believe that lp does put out more heat than natural gas if i'm not mistaken.
PeatK,
Hydronic heating is pretty much the absolute standard here but we've a very different climate to most of the US/Canada and it pretty much fits the needs here perfectly.
Forced air systems seem to suit the north american climate better as you've far more extreme winters and I suppose they can also be part of a central air conditing system for the hot humid summer weather too.
There were some ducted air systems tried in homes in the 1970s but the concept was pretty much abandoned in residential settings.
Bulk LPG (propane stored in a tank and delivered by tanker) is another relatively popular alternative in rural Ireland but again, it heats a hydronic system.
Hydronic heating is pretty much the absolute standard here but we've a very different climate to most of the US/Canada and it pretty much fits the needs here perfectly.
Forced air systems seem to suit the north american climate better as you've far more extreme winters and I suppose they can also be part of a central air conditing system for the hot humid summer weather too.
There were some ducted air systems tried in homes in the 1970s but the concept was pretty much abandoned in residential settings.
Bulk LPG (propane stored in a tank and delivered by tanker) is another relatively popular alternative in rural Ireland but again, it heats a hydronic system.
kenmore1978
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2004
- Messages
- 2,119
3 way heat
That's sort of unique how does the gas burner fit into the furnace? On the opposite side from the oil burner? A lot of people here converted oil furnaces to gas (you replace the burner). Once converted, oil could no longer be used. Propane is big in rural areas where there is no natural gas. It's more expensive, but usually not as much as electricity. Hydronic systems are still popular in the East and in older homes, but in the hot areas forced air is more common, since central A/C can be added very easily. Forced air can be fueled by oil, natural or propane gas, electric resistance or electric heat pump. Here in Los Angeles only old homes or commercial buildings have steam or hot water heat. Most homes are either gas-fired forced air or have gas wall or floor furnaces. A lot of older homes also have gas-fired "gravity" furnaces where heat rises through ducts by natural convection with no fan assist. Homes built during the heyday of the "Gold Medallion" electricity promotion usually had radiant wires buried in the ceiling. Have also seen apartments where each room had little wall-mounted fan-forced electric heaters.
That's sort of unique how does the gas burner fit into the furnace? On the opposite side from the oil burner? A lot of people here converted oil furnaces to gas (you replace the burner). Once converted, oil could no longer be used. Propane is big in rural areas where there is no natural gas. It's more expensive, but usually not as much as electricity. Hydronic systems are still popular in the East and in older homes, but in the hot areas forced air is more common, since central A/C can be added very easily. Forced air can be fueled by oil, natural or propane gas, electric resistance or electric heat pump. Here in Los Angeles only old homes or commercial buildings have steam or hot water heat. Most homes are either gas-fired forced air or have gas wall or floor furnaces. A lot of older homes also have gas-fired "gravity" furnaces where heat rises through ducts by natural convection with no fan assist. Homes built during the heyday of the "Gold Medallion" electricity promotion usually had radiant wires buried in the ceiling. Have also seen apartments where each room had little wall-mounted fan-forced electric heaters.
kenmore1978
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2004
- Messages
- 2,119
LP(Propane) vs Natural gas
Yes, propane does have a higher btu content than natural gas.
Yes, propane does have a higher btu content than natural gas.
Re the propane I'm not sure what it's cost would be, though I do know that filling up the 20lb BBQ tank aint as cheap as it used to be.
MrX.. speaking of peat..that must still be used to some extent in the country isn't it?
MrX.. speaking of peat..that must still be used to some extent in the country isn't it?
PeatK,
Peat's really only used for decorative purposes thesedays to be quite honest there are very few homes left that would use a peat fire as their sole source of heat it's just not practical, effective or efficient.
However, there would still be quite a few that have a peat fire burning in the living room just because it creates a nice warm cozy glow etc.
Plenty of "peat fires" in bars and houses are completely fake too and actually consist of fake peat or coals on top of a gas burner! It looks exceptionally authentic though.
As for the 3-way heat.. there are 3 seperate "boilers" a smaller much more energy efficient gas boiler, the big floor mounted oil boiler and the solid fuel boiler is part of the fireplace!
When we decided to put in natural gas we just kept the existing oil-fired unit.. There was no technical reason to remove it. The gas unit uses a "balanced flue" i.e. it's completely sealed. A duct goes through the wall which has a smaller duct inside it.. the hot exhaust gasses are blown out through the centre duct while fresh air is sucked back in through the outer duct and pre-heated on its way in. (these units are generally wall mounted and have a fan running all the time that the burner's working)
The term furnace here generally only applies to huge industrial devices that are used to forge steel.
Boiler tends to get used for the domestic devices, as they heat water...
Heater is more accurate than either furance or boiler to be quite honest
Peat's really only used for decorative purposes thesedays to be quite honest there are very few homes left that would use a peat fire as their sole source of heat it's just not practical, effective or efficient.
However, there would still be quite a few that have a peat fire burning in the living room just because it creates a nice warm cozy glow etc.
Plenty of "peat fires" in bars and houses are completely fake too and actually consist of fake peat or coals on top of a gas burner! It looks exceptionally authentic though.
As for the 3-way heat.. there are 3 seperate "boilers" a smaller much more energy efficient gas boiler, the big floor mounted oil boiler and the solid fuel boiler is part of the fireplace!
When we decided to put in natural gas we just kept the existing oil-fired unit.. There was no technical reason to remove it. The gas unit uses a "balanced flue" i.e. it's completely sealed. A duct goes through the wall which has a smaller duct inside it.. the hot exhaust gasses are blown out through the centre duct while fresh air is sucked back in through the outer duct and pre-heated on its way in. (these units are generally wall mounted and have a fan running all the time that the burner's working)
The term furnace here generally only applies to huge industrial devices that are used to forge steel.
Boiler tends to get used for the domestic devices, as they heat water...
Heater is more accurate than either furance or boiler to be quite honest
Mr. X
Are you in Northern Ireland or south? Somewhere there I have relatives..but most of my clan left for England starting with my grandad, now my father, aunts' and uncles are all gone as well so none of us left either here, in the US or the UK have a clue about who they are..and having a pretty common Irish last name..it would be near hopeless. They were all a pretty tight lipped bunch and would just change the subject. Hmmm maybe they were a bunch of sheep poachers on the lam. lol
Are you in Northern Ireland or south? Somewhere there I have relatives..but most of my clan left for England starting with my grandad, now my father, aunts' and uncles are all gone as well so none of us left either here, in the US or the UK have a clue about who they are..and having a pretty common Irish last name..it would be near hopeless. They were all a pretty tight lipped bunch and would just change the subject. Hmmm maybe they were a bunch of sheep poachers on the lam. lol
hydronic systems
one definite advantage to hydronic systems is that the absence of blowing air makes for a healthier household. And some systems will supply the hot water for the household. Their are 2 ways to go for air conditioning; chilled water or 2) a self-contained separate A/C unit. As much as I would like to forego cooling altogther, it is necessary down in these lower latitudes.
Many of our older homes built before WWII had either a floor furnace, space heaters, or both. When I was a kid I remember strolling across a hot grate of a FF barefoot and got the suprise of my life-waffle feet. I had never spent the night with anyone who had one till then and oboy. You don't forget that. So many older homes in my area have had central air and heat installed, you don't encounter those older methods of heating anymore very often.
one definite advantage to hydronic systems is that the absence of blowing air makes for a healthier household. And some systems will supply the hot water for the household. Their are 2 ways to go for air conditioning; chilled water or 2) a self-contained separate A/C unit. As much as I would like to forego cooling altogther, it is necessary down in these lower latitudes.
Many of our older homes built before WWII had either a floor furnace, space heaters, or both. When I was a kid I remember strolling across a hot grate of a FF barefoot and got the suprise of my life-waffle feet. I had never spent the night with anyone who had one till then and oboy. You don't forget that. So many older homes in my area have had central air and heat installed, you don't encounter those older methods of heating anymore very often.
maytagbear
Well-known member
In this part of Ohio,
it is forced air, and
1) Natural gas
2) Electricity
then
3) Fuel oil
Here in the city/suburbs, it's gas 3 to 1, except in some houses that were built during times of gas connection moratoriums, in the late 70s.
However, in more rural areas, it is fuel oil and propane.
Grandmother Loudenback had oil heat, and her basement always smelled unpleasantly of the stuff.
Even with frequent checks of the tank, and of the burner.
New England has far more oil heat in the cities.
Oil fired hot water happens at least two ways, a coil in the furnace/boiler, or a true, separate stand alone oil fired water heater. Either way, the water from oil fired heaters is extremely hot--often steaming.
I wish, wish, wish I could get my landlord to update my furnace! Had the Gas Man out for a different matter two years ago, and he said that "my" furnace was very old. (40 plus years, and probably no higher than 60% efficiency). However, a landlord is not going to replace something like a furnace until it is beyond repair.
Lawrence/Maytagbear
it is forced air, and
1) Natural gas
2) Electricity
then
3) Fuel oil
Here in the city/suburbs, it's gas 3 to 1, except in some houses that were built during times of gas connection moratoriums, in the late 70s.
However, in more rural areas, it is fuel oil and propane.
Grandmother Loudenback had oil heat, and her basement always smelled unpleasantly of the stuff.
Even with frequent checks of the tank, and of the burner.
New England has far more oil heat in the cities.
Oil fired hot water happens at least two ways, a coil in the furnace/boiler, or a true, separate stand alone oil fired water heater. Either way, the water from oil fired heaters is extremely hot--often steaming.
I wish, wish, wish I could get my landlord to update my furnace! Had the Gas Man out for a different matter two years ago, and he said that "my" furnace was very old. (40 plus years, and probably no higher than 60% efficiency). However, a landlord is not going to replace something like a furnace until it is beyond repair.
Lawrence/Maytagbear
I've never heard of anybody using oil heat around here. Natural gas, propane, electric. Forced air is the norm, but some old larger buildings may have radiators. My high school had hot water in the floors, with a gas-fired boiler. That was in the 1970s and early 80s, no idea if they still have it or have 'updated.'
I had a heat pump at the old house, and also at the new. Here's a pic at the old house minutes before a defrost triggered, although this is an extreme case.
I had a heat pump at the old house, and also at the new. Here's a pic at the old house minutes before a defrost triggered, although this is an extreme case.
toggleswitch
Well-known member
Oil fired hot water heaters.
The link below is for Bock brand hot water heaters. They apprear to be a premium brand.
Oil-fired storage-type hot water heaters are sometimes used instead of an instantaneous coil in a hydronic or steam boiler in places that do not have natural gas.
Most homes here that have natural gas and need more hot water than an instantaneous coil can provide tend to install gas- fired storage-type hot water heaters.
The cost here of gas and oil for residentail use and demands is usually somewhat nearly neck-and neck on average with a few years of one being lsee expesvie than the other. Rule of thunb: Normally the dirtier the fuel the less expensive it is.
Clean to dirty:
Electric
Gas
Fuel oil (Residential, Grade #2)
Fuel oil (Commerical, Grade #6)
Gas fired units are chosen over oil fired in that the cost of a gas hot water heater is much less expensive to buy; the oil-burner head is expensive. The head is bought separately from the tank.
http://www.bockwaterheaters.com/
The link below is for Bock brand hot water heaters. They apprear to be a premium brand.
Oil-fired storage-type hot water heaters are sometimes used instead of an instantaneous coil in a hydronic or steam boiler in places that do not have natural gas.
Most homes here that have natural gas and need more hot water than an instantaneous coil can provide tend to install gas- fired storage-type hot water heaters.
The cost here of gas and oil for residentail use and demands is usually somewhat nearly neck-and neck on average with a few years of one being lsee expesvie than the other. Rule of thunb: Normally the dirtier the fuel the less expensive it is.
Clean to dirty:
Electric
Gas
Fuel oil (Residential, Grade #2)
Fuel oil (Commerical, Grade #6)
Gas fired units are chosen over oil fired in that the cost of a gas hot water heater is much less expensive to buy; the oil-burner head is expensive. The head is bought separately from the tank.
http://www.bockwaterheaters.com/
toggleswitch
Well-known member
Heating oil vs. gas
Yes, here in New England a/k/a the northeast (being New York State, and from there, all states north and east!) fuel-oil is very frequently seen for heat and hot water, especially outside larger cities where natural gas in not available.
My understanding is that New England is generally fuel-oil territory; and that the mid-west is the biggest user of natural gas. On the east coast, electric resistance and/or heat-pumps become popular from the Carolinas and south.
Oil burning boilers can be converted to natural gas by way of a power-burner. It throws the gas into a boiler as does an oil-burers; one big flame. The oil-burning "head" is removed, and then is replaced by the gas-burning "head".
A gas-boiler may not be converted to oil, in that the multiple burner tubes gas uses do not allow for a one-cubic foot combustion chamber and the intorduction of an oil-type single point-of-entry flame.
http://www.wardburner.com/power_burners.cfm
Yes, here in New England a/k/a the northeast (being New York State, and from there, all states north and east!) fuel-oil is very frequently seen for heat and hot water, especially outside larger cities where natural gas in not available.
My understanding is that New England is generally fuel-oil territory; and that the mid-west is the biggest user of natural gas. On the east coast, electric resistance and/or heat-pumps become popular from the Carolinas and south.
Oil burning boilers can be converted to natural gas by way of a power-burner. It throws the gas into a boiler as does an oil-burers; one big flame. The oil-burning "head" is removed, and then is replaced by the gas-burning "head".
A gas-boiler may not be converted to oil, in that the multiple burner tubes gas uses do not allow for a one-cubic foot combustion chamber and the intorduction of an oil-type single point-of-entry flame.
http://www.wardburner.com/power_burners.cfm
toggleswitch
Well-known member
Electric to oil conversion.
When making electrcicity as currently done, 2/3 of the total energy input of fossil-fuel is lost as wate heat. Therefore only 1/3 is harnessed.
In most parts of the this country electricity is 3 times more exensive than using a fossil-fuel directly for heat. This is not true in areas that use hydro-electic power--- making that type/source of elctrcicity inexpensive.
http://www.electric-to-oil.com/facts.html
When making electrcicity as currently done, 2/3 of the total energy input of fossil-fuel is lost as wate heat. Therefore only 1/3 is harnessed.
In most parts of the this country electricity is 3 times more exensive than using a fossil-fuel directly for heat. This is not true in areas that use hydro-electic power--- making that type/source of elctrcicity inexpensive.
http://www.electric-to-oil.com/facts.html
toggleswitch
Well-known member
Beckett was the most popular domestic oil-burning head for decades.
Now Riello (Italian)appears to be taking over. There is a red Riello head pictured further back in the thread on that red/orange boiler shown in Ireland/UK. (The one in the weight-room)
There was a nasty rumor at one time that it can burn wine, but this has not been confirmed!! (JOKE!)
Beckett was easy to service and had very standard parts. But it burned "dirty" (incompletely), and Soot buidlup had to be cleaned out of the boiler once a year. (There are doors on a boilers and furnaces that swing open to do this)
Boilers heat water (to make steam or hot-water.)
Furnaces heat air.
Cleaning is included as part of a servcie contract that costs soemthing like $40 per year. For that price replacement of all componets needed to burn or regulate oil and a yearly cleaning are inclued. The logic is that the oil delivery co. will send a techie to fix your unit for free, keep you warm and prevent you from converting to gas.
http://www.beckettcorp.com/home.htm
Now Riello (Italian)appears to be taking over. There is a red Riello head pictured further back in the thread on that red/orange boiler shown in Ireland/UK. (The one in the weight-room)
There was a nasty rumor at one time that it can burn wine, but this has not been confirmed!! (JOKE!)
Beckett was easy to service and had very standard parts. But it burned "dirty" (incompletely), and Soot buidlup had to be cleaned out of the boiler once a year. (There are doors on a boilers and furnaces that swing open to do this)
Boilers heat water (to make steam or hot-water.)
Furnaces heat air.
Cleaning is included as part of a servcie contract that costs soemthing like $40 per year. For that price replacement of all componets needed to burn or regulate oil and a yearly cleaning are inclued. The logic is that the oil delivery co. will send a techie to fix your unit for free, keep you warm and prevent you from converting to gas.
http://www.beckettcorp.com/home.htm
toggleswitch
Well-known member
Riello oil burners
BLAH BLAH BLAH. watch me ramble on!
Riello burners are now showing up in this country. I have one and they really are great! Combusiton is complete, and they burn clean-as-a-whistle. My serviceperson laughed when he saw the burner becasue he knew he would not have to clean the boiler.
http://www.riello-burners.com/
BLAH BLAH BLAH. watch me ramble on!
Riello burners are now showing up in this country. I have one and they really are great! Combusiton is complete, and they burn clean-as-a-whistle. My serviceperson laughed when he saw the burner becasue he knew he would not have to clean the boiler.
http://www.riello-burners.com/
Most oil burners here are swedish
Almost all of the oil burners you come across here are made by a swedish company called Bentone. They seem to have been on the market for a LONG time as you see boilers from the early 1960s with Bentone burners sticking out the front.
Installers and service engineers seem to just prefer them as they're reliable and they always have the parts.
The older models wern't as neatly packaged as that square Bentone burner sticking out of the boiler in the picture.
I've also seen old burners made by Danfoss.
They seem to be extremely reliable as they run for decades with minimal servicing.
There are definitely some differences in terms of the equipment that's been traditionally popular in the Republic of Ireland and the UK. Oil fired hydronic heating was very popular here over the decades. It runs on a very light fuel oil that's classified as Gasoil, sometimes a blend of gasoil and kerosine and burns extremely cleanly with those pressure jet Bentone burners. Until the late 1970s there was no natural gas in Ireland at all. The first gas fields were discovered off the south coast in the mid-1970s. Old-fashioned "town gas" which was made from gassifying oil or coal was available in the cities but was really confined to gas cooking applications and was becoming completely uneconomic to run.
Also, unlike the UK, boilers / heating systems are usually housed in a seperate boiler room / boiler house that isn't attached to the house directly. This is for fire regulations but also because oil-fired pressure jet units make a continious rumble when they're running.
The entire city gas networks had to be rebuilt to safely handle natural gas, so the 1980s saw the towns and cities along the new natural gas grid being completely rebuit for natural gas. Many suburban areas got gas for the first time as the older local gas networks had never been extended that far (the old gas companies were struggling to survive never mind extending their networks)
Anyway, natural gas began to take over in urban areas by the mid 1980s. Although, there are still a signifigant number of homes heated by oil-fired systems. They're very easy to convert to gas.. just remove the old oil bentone burner and pop in a new gas one! The fuel was cheaper, there were various special offers to encourage people to switch over as it reduced pollution (particulates) in urban areas. It also reduced the problem of having to phone up and order 1500Liters of oil every so often and having it delivered by tanker.
Natural gas rapidly replaced oil in power plants too, by the mid 80s most of our energy was being generated by "combined cycle" natural gas power plants.. i.e. the gas is burned first in a gas turbine which generates power, then the hot exhaust from that turbine's fed into the normal power plant to raise steam to drive "traditional" turbines.
The Irish gas fields off the south coast are now almost empty, but there's a big interconnecter that feeds gas in from Northern Europe (Norway, UK, Russia etc) so it'll be heating homes for quite a while yet!
And, I'm in the Republic of Ireland (right on the south coast)
Below is a typical LPG tank for the other popular fuel source in rural areas LPG
Almost all of the oil burners you come across here are made by a swedish company called Bentone. They seem to have been on the market for a LONG time as you see boilers from the early 1960s with Bentone burners sticking out the front.
Installers and service engineers seem to just prefer them as they're reliable and they always have the parts.
The older models wern't as neatly packaged as that square Bentone burner sticking out of the boiler in the picture.
I've also seen old burners made by Danfoss.
They seem to be extremely reliable as they run for decades with minimal servicing.
There are definitely some differences in terms of the equipment that's been traditionally popular in the Republic of Ireland and the UK. Oil fired hydronic heating was very popular here over the decades. It runs on a very light fuel oil that's classified as Gasoil, sometimes a blend of gasoil and kerosine and burns extremely cleanly with those pressure jet Bentone burners. Until the late 1970s there was no natural gas in Ireland at all. The first gas fields were discovered off the south coast in the mid-1970s. Old-fashioned "town gas" which was made from gassifying oil or coal was available in the cities but was really confined to gas cooking applications and was becoming completely uneconomic to run.
Also, unlike the UK, boilers / heating systems are usually housed in a seperate boiler room / boiler house that isn't attached to the house directly. This is for fire regulations but also because oil-fired pressure jet units make a continious rumble when they're running.
The entire city gas networks had to be rebuilt to safely handle natural gas, so the 1980s saw the towns and cities along the new natural gas grid being completely rebuit for natural gas. Many suburban areas got gas for the first time as the older local gas networks had never been extended that far (the old gas companies were struggling to survive never mind extending their networks)
Anyway, natural gas began to take over in urban areas by the mid 1980s. Although, there are still a signifigant number of homes heated by oil-fired systems. They're very easy to convert to gas.. just remove the old oil bentone burner and pop in a new gas one! The fuel was cheaper, there were various special offers to encourage people to switch over as it reduced pollution (particulates) in urban areas. It also reduced the problem of having to phone up and order 1500Liters of oil every so often and having it delivered by tanker.
Natural gas rapidly replaced oil in power plants too, by the mid 80s most of our energy was being generated by "combined cycle" natural gas power plants.. i.e. the gas is burned first in a gas turbine which generates power, then the hot exhaust from that turbine's fed into the normal power plant to raise steam to drive "traditional" turbines.
The Irish gas fields off the south coast are now almost empty, but there's a big interconnecter that feeds gas in from Northern Europe (Norway, UK, Russia etc) so it'll be heating homes for quite a while yet!
And, I'm in the Republic of Ireland (right on the south coast)
Below is a typical LPG tank for the other popular fuel source in rural areas LPG
btw
We use gas for exactly the same things as you do in the USA...
Natural gas or bulk LPG for:
Space heating / water heating.
Clothes dryers (tumble dryers)
Cooking.
Cylinders of LPG (Propane or Butane)
Patio heaters
BBQ
You can also get very large tall cylinders of propane that are installed in a mini "farm" with an automatic switching regulator rather than bulk-LPG deliveries. They're used in some rural areas where it's difficult to get access safely with a large bulk LPG tanker... e.g. remote farms / houses / small hotels in rugged areas.
The cylinders just make delivery easier and safer, but the result is exactly the same.
We use gas for exactly the same things as you do in the USA...
Natural gas or bulk LPG for:
Space heating / water heating.
Clothes dryers (tumble dryers)
Cooking.
Cylinders of LPG (Propane or Butane)
Patio heaters
BBQ
You can also get very large tall cylinders of propane that are installed in a mini "farm" with an automatic switching regulator rather than bulk-LPG deliveries. They're used in some rural areas where it's difficult to get access safely with a large bulk LPG tanker... e.g. remote farms / houses / small hotels in rugged areas.
The cylinders just make delivery easier and safer, but the result is exactly the same.
Oddly enough, Carrier Corporation...one of the biggest American air conditioning companies used Riello burners exclusively on their oil fired equipment (boilers and furnaces)
Back in the pre central-air conditioning days here in the USA...well, at least in my hometown of Richmond, and parts further northeast, oil fired hot water heat was the way to go for both simplicity and minimal building expense. This was the system employed by many mid-century developers and architects such as William Levitt, who built in New England and mid Atlantic areas, and by Henry Eichler who built even more modern style homes on the west coast. Many other builders used these systems as well.
Oil fired systems used in many mid-century homes have baseboard radiators in wood-frame homes, which is basically a finned pipe behind a metal cover at the bottom edge of the floor. If the home is built slab-on-grade, the pipes are simply buried in the concrete slab when the house is built. The heating pipes are imbedded in the slab heat the floor of the home. The radiant floor system is really nice for giving out comfortable draft-free heat that many users say is comfortable at a lower thermostat setting than forced-air heating. The baseboard systems have almost the same comfort level as the radiant floor systems as well. Domestic hot water is heated by the same boiler by using a hot water loop within the boiler's heating water tank. If Domestic hot water is needed when the home does not need heating, the boiler's burner will kick in, but the circulator pump for the heating system does not run.
Oil fired hot water heat was cheap for the builder and developer because gas lines did not need to be installed when the infrastructure of the new subdivision was put in place. It was also more inexpensive for the builder, since it elimintates one mechanical system, the hot water heater, due to the fact that the boiler is doing double-duty providing water for both systems. There is also the advantage that the home's frame does not need to be constructed to accommodate the extra "tin" needed for large ductwork in a forced-air system. It's much easier to hide a 3/4 inch pipe behind a wall than a 12 inch round air duct. There's also the advantage that another tech was not needed for the installation. The same plumber that hooked up the bathrooms and sinks can be used to install the heating system.
For a breif while around here, electric baseboard heat, with separate hot water systems got slightly popular, but quickly faded as electricity prices in the seventies got high...Oddly enough, oil caught back on until the late 70's when heat pumps came on the scenes, and homeowners started demanding central air conditioning in new homes. Nowadays, heat pumps seem to be the defacto standard in new homes. I imagine this is done for the same reasons hot-water baseboard systems became popular...because of minimal building expense and to mimimize mechanical equipment the builder needs to install. The other factor is that homes are much larger now than they were back in the 50's and 60's (1200 sq/ft versus 2500 sq/ft0, and the ductwork is easier to accommodate in the larger rooms. If a hot-water system is used, the new home buy is still going to want air conditioning, which will require ductwork, and a separate mechanical system. Elecric hot water heaters today are much cheaper than a separate central air conditioner. For that reason the heat pump is used, which will serve the purpose for both heating and cooling with a separate electric water heater for domestic water. The problem is that while air conditioning provided by the heat pump makes the home very comfortable during the summer, the heat pump provides cool, drafty, minimal heating comfort during the winter months. Most people end up upgrading their heat pumps after the home is built with a gas backup system fueled by natural gas if the lines come through their neighborhood, or by propane bottles, if there are not gas lines.
Back in the pre central-air conditioning days here in the USA...well, at least in my hometown of Richmond, and parts further northeast, oil fired hot water heat was the way to go for both simplicity and minimal building expense. This was the system employed by many mid-century developers and architects such as William Levitt, who built in New England and mid Atlantic areas, and by Henry Eichler who built even more modern style homes on the west coast. Many other builders used these systems as well.
Oil fired systems used in many mid-century homes have baseboard radiators in wood-frame homes, which is basically a finned pipe behind a metal cover at the bottom edge of the floor. If the home is built slab-on-grade, the pipes are simply buried in the concrete slab when the house is built. The heating pipes are imbedded in the slab heat the floor of the home. The radiant floor system is really nice for giving out comfortable draft-free heat that many users say is comfortable at a lower thermostat setting than forced-air heating. The baseboard systems have almost the same comfort level as the radiant floor systems as well. Domestic hot water is heated by the same boiler by using a hot water loop within the boiler's heating water tank. If Domestic hot water is needed when the home does not need heating, the boiler's burner will kick in, but the circulator pump for the heating system does not run.
Oil fired hot water heat was cheap for the builder and developer because gas lines did not need to be installed when the infrastructure of the new subdivision was put in place. It was also more inexpensive for the builder, since it elimintates one mechanical system, the hot water heater, due to the fact that the boiler is doing double-duty providing water for both systems. There is also the advantage that the home's frame does not need to be constructed to accommodate the extra "tin" needed for large ductwork in a forced-air system. It's much easier to hide a 3/4 inch pipe behind a wall than a 12 inch round air duct. There's also the advantage that another tech was not needed for the installation. The same plumber that hooked up the bathrooms and sinks can be used to install the heating system.
For a breif while around here, electric baseboard heat, with separate hot water systems got slightly popular, but quickly faded as electricity prices in the seventies got high...Oddly enough, oil caught back on until the late 70's when heat pumps came on the scenes, and homeowners started demanding central air conditioning in new homes. Nowadays, heat pumps seem to be the defacto standard in new homes. I imagine this is done for the same reasons hot-water baseboard systems became popular...because of minimal building expense and to mimimize mechanical equipment the builder needs to install. The other factor is that homes are much larger now than they were back in the 50's and 60's (1200 sq/ft versus 2500 sq/ft0, and the ductwork is easier to accommodate in the larger rooms. If a hot-water system is used, the new home buy is still going to want air conditioning, which will require ductwork, and a separate mechanical system. Elecric hot water heaters today are much cheaper than a separate central air conditioner. For that reason the heat pump is used, which will serve the purpose for both heating and cooling with a separate electric water heater for domestic water. The problem is that while air conditioning provided by the heat pump makes the home very comfortable during the summer, the heat pump provides cool, drafty, minimal heating comfort during the winter months. Most people end up upgrading their heat pumps after the home is built with a gas backup system fueled by natural gas if the lines come through their neighborhood, or by propane bottles, if there are not gas lines.
Levitt used boilers made by York-Shipley, and were tiny little units that were actually installed underneath the kitchen countertop in the lower cabinet! This gave very fast hot water service to the kitchen appliances, and to the bathroom that backed up to the kitchen. Larger (non Levitt-built) homes had the boilers installed in actual utility rooms, where it's noise would not be a factor similar to the way you describe MRX.
The Beckett oil burners have been the standard here in the USA for quite some time. They are actually an older design that used to be produced by several different manufacturers over the years, but they are the only ones left. These units are extremely easy for even the homeowner to service. About once a year the electrodes, spray nozzle, and the filter needs to be changed, and the oil-water separater emptied. The firebox is cleaned and you are good to go for another year. This periodic service requirement has made lots of money for HVAC techs, as many homeowners have no interest in dealing with the black, sooty components, and having stinky fuel oil run all over the kitchen floor.
The Beckett oil burners have been the standard here in the USA for quite some time. They are actually an older design that used to be produced by several different manufacturers over the years, but they are the only ones left. These units are extremely easy for even the homeowner to service. About once a year the electrodes, spray nozzle, and the filter needs to be changed, and the oil-water separater emptied. The firebox is cleaned and you are good to go for another year. This periodic service requirement has made lots of money for HVAC techs, as many homeowners have no interest in dealing with the black, sooty components, and having stinky fuel oil run all over the kitchen floor.
jasonl
New member
new england heaters and honeywell thermostats
Most of the houses in NE I've seen were oil or steam radiant and a few houses (like the one I'm in now) has forced air gas which is plenty powerful even on the really cold nights.
EVERYONE and their mama here has an old Honeywell round thermostat. I've yet to see another brand of thermostat here. The "Roundies" are definitely my favorite and I've had both the analog and digital one setup in my trailer back home. The digital version is extremely accurate and it never overheated the house like the previous cheap thermostat that was there.
Most of the houses in NE I've seen were oil or steam radiant and a few houses (like the one I'm in now) has forced air gas which is plenty powerful even on the really cold nights.
EVERYONE and their mama here has an old Honeywell round thermostat. I've yet to see another brand of thermostat here. The "Roundies" are definitely my favorite and I've had both the analog and digital one setup in my trailer back home. The digital version is extremely accurate and it never overheated the house like the previous cheap thermostat that was there.
toggleswitch
Well-known member
Honewwell
Agreed- Honeywell rounds are indeed the standard here. These are 24 volt (low-voltage) units that control the gas solenoid or oil burner motor directly or through a relay to turn on a circulator. (Riello brand oil-burners require a realy in that they dont have one built-in)
I believe they may also be used with mili-volt systems where a tiny pilot-light hits a thermocouple to generate a tiny voltage. Coupled with a mili-volt gas solenoid valve and a steam system, this will run even in a power outage.
With their heat-anticipators they are accurate to 1/2 degree Fareheit (or 1/4 degree celcius.)
The heat-anticipator is a small resistor that heats up the mercuy tub and bi-metal coil. It shuts the heat off sooner so that any residual in the radiators/convetors will bring the room to temp. without overheating it. (In the summer it serves to start the A/C sooner.)
I read that even such a tiny amount of mercury as found within is hugely toxic and can pollute huge acres and acres of lakes/rivers etc, etc.
Line voltage thermostats tend to be accurate to within 2-5 degrees F and are not very well coveted. Their temperature swings are not comfortable or economical.
Slowly electronic thermostats are taking over. Believe it or not the unheard-of "Lux" brand seems to be overtaking electronic Honeywell brands, at least in my area.
Still, with my steam system the electronic themostat cuts-off the boiler (in mild weather) before the steam can come up ..which takes 8 minutes to heat up and 13 minutes to pressurize the pipes to the max 2.5 psi. Of course in colder weather when the room temp rapidly sinks, this is not a problem.
Agreed- Honeywell rounds are indeed the standard here. These are 24 volt (low-voltage) units that control the gas solenoid or oil burner motor directly or through a relay to turn on a circulator. (Riello brand oil-burners require a realy in that they dont have one built-in)
I believe they may also be used with mili-volt systems where a tiny pilot-light hits a thermocouple to generate a tiny voltage. Coupled with a mili-volt gas solenoid valve and a steam system, this will run even in a power outage.
With their heat-anticipators they are accurate to 1/2 degree Fareheit (or 1/4 degree celcius.)
The heat-anticipator is a small resistor that heats up the mercuy tub and bi-metal coil. It shuts the heat off sooner so that any residual in the radiators/convetors will bring the room to temp. without overheating it. (In the summer it serves to start the A/C sooner.)
I read that even such a tiny amount of mercury as found within is hugely toxic and can pollute huge acres and acres of lakes/rivers etc, etc.
Line voltage thermostats tend to be accurate to within 2-5 degrees F and are not very well coveted. Their temperature swings are not comfortable or economical.
Slowly electronic thermostats are taking over. Believe it or not the unheard-of "Lux" brand seems to be overtaking electronic Honeywell brands, at least in my area.
Still, with my steam system the electronic themostat cuts-off the boiler (in mild weather) before the steam can come up ..which takes 8 minutes to heat up and 13 minutes to pressurize the pipes to the max 2.5 psi. Of course in colder weather when the room temp rapidly sinks, this is not a problem.
toggleswitch
Well-known member
Tumble dryers used in Ireland
MrX:
May I request a link to such gas-fired dryers used by you and your "home-ies" [People of your area home-town or in this case used to mean country]
I thought most there were electric "plug & play" (right Jon? LOL) and of the condenser variety.
Thanks.
MrX:
May I request a link to such gas-fired dryers used by you and your "home-ies" [People of your area home-town or in this case used to mean country]
I thought most there were electric "plug & play" (right Jon? LOL) and of the condenser variety.
Thanks.
I posted this picture before but I thought it would be appropriate in this thread. It's a picture of the system that heats my apartment and also is a water heater. It's a small appliance that runs on natural gas and it hangs on the wall. The appliance below it is my wringer washer (without wringer), so it's only the appliance with the pipe coming out of the top.
And here's a picture of the thermostat, an electronic Honeywell named Chromotherm III. I forgot to tell that the heating system is a hot water system.
I just noticed those Honeywell digital roundies the other day when I was poking around. I'll get one for my mom, she likes things uncomplicated and when they put in her new furnace/ac all they gave her was a cheap rectangular manual job that you can't really tell where it's set. I was going to put her in a set-back like my Honeywell, but she says it's too complicated and fussy, for her anyways.
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