I have read on a site on the net that heating oil has a higher heat output that gas does. Maybe that's why we find it way up north more than anywhere else. I know that many places didn't have gas service, so this was the fuel of choice. How many of you use Heating oil? I also didn't know that there was such a thing as oil-fired water heaters. The interworkings of the oil furnace is interesting especially for someone like me who has never seen oil burners. Gas or electricity is all we use here. With so much going for it, you would think it would be more widely available than it is.
Heating Oil vs gas
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Oil-fired central heating has been popular over here for a long time as once you get outside the cities the population becomes rather scattered with one-off homes etc so it's not really economic to hook every home up to gas.
Although, that being said, it's still quite common to find oil-fired systems in areas that are well served by natural gas.
Our central heating system actually has 3 seperate and totally independent heat sources that all heat the same water that circulates through the radiators.
1) Natural Gas
2) Oil
3) Solid Fuel (the boiler's located at the back of the fireplace)
To change fuel is just a simple matter of adjusting a few valves and pump switches.
We haven't used the oil system in quite a while as the price of heating oil is relatively high at the moment and it's just not good value for money compared to natural gas and the fire place only really gets used on special occasions e.g. around christmas time.
Heating systems here typically have 3 circuits of hot water pipes, the radiators in 2 areas (E.g. upstairs and downstairs) connect to two of these while another circuit goes through a heat exchanger immersed in the hot water tank. There is also an electrical heating element in this tank to provide hot water if the central heating is switched off (in summer etc)
There are various different configurations around and controls vary from complex systems of room thermostats and electromechanical valves or thermostatic valves mounted at each radiator. There are also various different levels of sophistication on programmers to control the system. The most simple being an electromechanical time clock the most complex being pretty fancy computerised programmers.
Here's a diagram of the system: (in our case there would be 3 boilers)
The square unit on that system represents the boiler and the cylinder is the hotwater tank.
There are two head tanks in the attic (standard in most UK/Irish homes)... one is the head tank for the heating system the other is for the hot/cold water for bathrooms. Kitchens, washing machines and dishwashers take their cold water directly from the water main coming into the house.
The drawback of this system is that the pressure for showers can be bordering on pathetic as it's gravity fed. However, many homes have a double headded pump that kicks in instantanoulsy once the shower draws water giving you an extremely good high pressure powershower (or multiple power showers).
Although, that being said, it's still quite common to find oil-fired systems in areas that are well served by natural gas.
Our central heating system actually has 3 seperate and totally independent heat sources that all heat the same water that circulates through the radiators.
1) Natural Gas
2) Oil
3) Solid Fuel (the boiler's located at the back of the fireplace)
To change fuel is just a simple matter of adjusting a few valves and pump switches.
We haven't used the oil system in quite a while as the price of heating oil is relatively high at the moment and it's just not good value for money compared to natural gas and the fire place only really gets used on special occasions e.g. around christmas time.
Heating systems here typically have 3 circuits of hot water pipes, the radiators in 2 areas (E.g. upstairs and downstairs) connect to two of these while another circuit goes through a heat exchanger immersed in the hot water tank. There is also an electrical heating element in this tank to provide hot water if the central heating is switched off (in summer etc)
There are various different configurations around and controls vary from complex systems of room thermostats and electromechanical valves or thermostatic valves mounted at each radiator. There are also various different levels of sophistication on programmers to control the system. The most simple being an electromechanical time clock the most complex being pretty fancy computerised programmers.
Here's a diagram of the system: (in our case there would be 3 boilers)
The square unit on that system represents the boiler and the cylinder is the hotwater tank.
There are two head tanks in the attic (standard in most UK/Irish homes)... one is the head tank for the heating system the other is for the hot/cold water for bathrooms. Kitchens, washing machines and dishwashers take their cold water directly from the water main coming into the house.
The drawback of this system is that the pressure for showers can be bordering on pathetic as it's gravity fed. However, many homes have a double headded pump that kicks in instantanoulsy once the shower draws water giving you an extremely good high pressure powershower (or multiple power showers).
Large oil fired boiler.
Here's a rather large oil fired boiler used in a central heating system in a larger house in Ireland. Not unusual over here, I'm not sure if they're used that much in the UK though.
Smaller homes would have a unit that looks physically identical to this but is shorter (about the size of a european washing machine)
The pressure jet burner is the unit sticking out of the front.
It basically consists of a fan, an oil pump, a sparking electrode and some electronic / relay gear to monitor the system.
Basically what happens is this:
Oil (similar to kerosine) is pumped through a very fine nozzle (Atomiser) creating a fine spray. Meanwhile a fan blows air into the combustion chamber. This is ignited by the sparking electrode (Similar to a spark plug on a car). A solar cell (light detecting device) monitors to ensure that the mixture has properly igited.
The user / service person has to adjust the mixture of air and oil correctly to ensure optimal burning. So, you look into the combustion chamber via a little viewing flap and adjust the damper on the boiler until the flame looks the correct colour.
(this generally only has to be done once although changes in fuel oil types can require a readjustment)
They're extremely clean burning, producing no smoke or smell when running efficiently.
They normally have a tall chimney like flue.
The only drawback is that the units are quite noisy creating quite a rumble. So, in many irish homes that were fitted out with these machines in the 1950s-80s they're housed in a small boiler room that is seperate from the house. (typically a few feet away from the main building) or at the very least in a well sound proofed entirely brick built shed that opens to the outside of the house but is still part of the same structure.
Putting your gym equipment into the boiler room is NOT a good idea unless you like sweating!
(again a typical unit is about half this size but pretty much identical otherwise.. this unit is extra large as it's heating a particularly big sprawling house)
Here's a rather large oil fired boiler used in a central heating system in a larger house in Ireland. Not unusual over here, I'm not sure if they're used that much in the UK though.
Smaller homes would have a unit that looks physically identical to this but is shorter (about the size of a european washing machine)
The pressure jet burner is the unit sticking out of the front.
It basically consists of a fan, an oil pump, a sparking electrode and some electronic / relay gear to monitor the system.
Basically what happens is this:
Oil (similar to kerosine) is pumped through a very fine nozzle (Atomiser) creating a fine spray. Meanwhile a fan blows air into the combustion chamber. This is ignited by the sparking electrode (Similar to a spark plug on a car). A solar cell (light detecting device) monitors to ensure that the mixture has properly igited.
The user / service person has to adjust the mixture of air and oil correctly to ensure optimal burning. So, you look into the combustion chamber via a little viewing flap and adjust the damper on the boiler until the flame looks the correct colour.
(this generally only has to be done once although changes in fuel oil types can require a readjustment)
They're extremely clean burning, producing no smoke or smell when running efficiently.
They normally have a tall chimney like flue.
The only drawback is that the units are quite noisy creating quite a rumble. So, in many irish homes that were fitted out with these machines in the 1950s-80s they're housed in a small boiler room that is seperate from the house. (typically a few feet away from the main building) or at the very least in a well sound proofed entirely brick built shed that opens to the outside of the house but is still part of the same structure.
Putting your gym equipment into the boiler room is NOT a good idea unless you like sweating!
(again a typical unit is about half this size but pretty much identical otherwise.. this unit is extra large as it's heating a particularly big sprawling house)
I wouldn't say there is no oil heat anymore here in Canada I've never encountered it in more than 20+. By the 50's in the older urban areas most people went straight from the old coal octupuses in the basements to natural gas except for that brief blip in the 60's with the previously mentioned Live Better Electrically campaign but that was aimed more at the new home market. Country folk tend towards propane (UK bottle gas)as most gas furnaces and appliances are an easy conversion. Hydronic systems of any sort also faded away except in apartment buildings for the most part. Other than the new craze of underfloor heating which is actually an old idea resurrected from the 1950's Wonder Home bungalows that sprouted up all over N.America then disappeared again.
Mrx-thanks for the diagram and accompaning info-Irealize there are many ways to heat a home, oil being an option, nat. gas propane elec. I have been thinking and material shopping on the net trying to design a home that would energy efficient in the southern us where cooling is the big problem- more later.
Pete-propane bills are so high around here, just noses out electricity for cost. Isn't it prohibitively expensive up there? I believe that lp does put out more heat than natural gas if i'm not mistaken.
Pete-propane bills are so high around here, just noses out electricity for cost. Isn't it prohibitively expensive up there? I believe that lp does put out more heat than natural gas if i'm not mistaken.
PeatK,
Hydronic heating is pretty much the absolute standard here but we've a very different climate to most of the US/Canada and it pretty much fits the needs here perfectly.
Forced air systems seem to suit the north american climate better as you've far more extreme winters and I suppose they can also be part of a central air conditing system for the hot humid summer weather too.
There were some ducted air systems tried in homes in the 1970s but the concept was pretty much abandoned in residential settings.
Bulk LPG (propane stored in a tank and delivered by tanker) is another relatively popular alternative in rural Ireland but again, it heats a hydronic system.
Hydronic heating is pretty much the absolute standard here but we've a very different climate to most of the US/Canada and it pretty much fits the needs here perfectly.
Forced air systems seem to suit the north american climate better as you've far more extreme winters and I suppose they can also be part of a central air conditing system for the hot humid summer weather too.
There were some ducted air systems tried in homes in the 1970s but the concept was pretty much abandoned in residential settings.
Bulk LPG (propane stored in a tank and delivered by tanker) is another relatively popular alternative in rural Ireland but again, it heats a hydronic system.
kenmore1978
Well-known member
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- Sep 8, 2004
- Messages
- 2,119
3 way heat
That's sort of unique how does the gas burner fit into the furnace? On the opposite side from the oil burner? A lot of people here converted oil furnaces to gas (you replace the burner). Once converted, oil could no longer be used. Propane is big in rural areas where there is no natural gas. It's more expensive, but usually not as much as electricity. Hydronic systems are still popular in the East and in older homes, but in the hot areas forced air is more common, since central A/C can be added very easily. Forced air can be fueled by oil, natural or propane gas, electric resistance or electric heat pump. Here in Los Angeles only old homes or commercial buildings have steam or hot water heat. Most homes are either gas-fired forced air or have gas wall or floor furnaces. A lot of older homes also have gas-fired "gravity" furnaces where heat rises through ducts by natural convection with no fan assist. Homes built during the heyday of the "Gold Medallion" electricity promotion usually had radiant wires buried in the ceiling. Have also seen apartments where each room had little wall-mounted fan-forced electric heaters.
That's sort of unique how does the gas burner fit into the furnace? On the opposite side from the oil burner? A lot of people here converted oil furnaces to gas (you replace the burner). Once converted, oil could no longer be used. Propane is big in rural areas where there is no natural gas. It's more expensive, but usually not as much as electricity. Hydronic systems are still popular in the East and in older homes, but in the hot areas forced air is more common, since central A/C can be added very easily. Forced air can be fueled by oil, natural or propane gas, electric resistance or electric heat pump. Here in Los Angeles only old homes or commercial buildings have steam or hot water heat. Most homes are either gas-fired forced air or have gas wall or floor furnaces. A lot of older homes also have gas-fired "gravity" furnaces where heat rises through ducts by natural convection with no fan assist. Homes built during the heyday of the "Gold Medallion" electricity promotion usually had radiant wires buried in the ceiling. Have also seen apartments where each room had little wall-mounted fan-forced electric heaters.
kenmore1978
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2004
- Messages
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LP(Propane) vs Natural gas
Yes, propane does have a higher btu content than natural gas.
Yes, propane does have a higher btu content than natural gas.
Re the propane I'm not sure what it's cost would be, though I do know that filling up the 20lb BBQ tank aint as cheap as it used to be.
MrX.. speaking of peat..that must still be used to some extent in the country isn't it?
MrX.. speaking of peat..that must still be used to some extent in the country isn't it?
PeatK,
Peat's really only used for decorative purposes thesedays to be quite honest there are very few homes left that would use a peat fire as their sole source of heat it's just not practical, effective or efficient.
However, there would still be quite a few that have a peat fire burning in the living room just because it creates a nice warm cozy glow etc.
Plenty of "peat fires" in bars and houses are completely fake too and actually consist of fake peat or coals on top of a gas burner! It looks exceptionally authentic though.
As for the 3-way heat.. there are 3 seperate "boilers" a smaller much more energy efficient gas boiler, the big floor mounted oil boiler and the solid fuel boiler is part of the fireplace!
When we decided to put in natural gas we just kept the existing oil-fired unit.. There was no technical reason to remove it. The gas unit uses a "balanced flue" i.e. it's completely sealed. A duct goes through the wall which has a smaller duct inside it.. the hot exhaust gasses are blown out through the centre duct while fresh air is sucked back in through the outer duct and pre-heated on its way in. (these units are generally wall mounted and have a fan running all the time that the burner's working)
The term furnace here generally only applies to huge industrial devices that are used to forge steel.
Boiler tends to get used for the domestic devices, as they heat water...
Heater is more accurate than either furance or boiler to be quite honest
Peat's really only used for decorative purposes thesedays to be quite honest there are very few homes left that would use a peat fire as their sole source of heat it's just not practical, effective or efficient.
However, there would still be quite a few that have a peat fire burning in the living room just because it creates a nice warm cozy glow etc.
Plenty of "peat fires" in bars and houses are completely fake too and actually consist of fake peat or coals on top of a gas burner! It looks exceptionally authentic though.
As for the 3-way heat.. there are 3 seperate "boilers" a smaller much more energy efficient gas boiler, the big floor mounted oil boiler and the solid fuel boiler is part of the fireplace!
When we decided to put in natural gas we just kept the existing oil-fired unit.. There was no technical reason to remove it. The gas unit uses a "balanced flue" i.e. it's completely sealed. A duct goes through the wall which has a smaller duct inside it.. the hot exhaust gasses are blown out through the centre duct while fresh air is sucked back in through the outer duct and pre-heated on its way in. (these units are generally wall mounted and have a fan running all the time that the burner's working)
The term furnace here generally only applies to huge industrial devices that are used to forge steel.
Boiler tends to get used for the domestic devices, as they heat water...
Heater is more accurate than either furance or boiler to be quite honest
Mr. X
Are you in Northern Ireland or south? Somewhere there I have relatives..but most of my clan left for England starting with my grandad, now my father, aunts' and uncles are all gone as well so none of us left either here, in the US or the UK have a clue about who they are..and having a pretty common Irish last name..it would be near hopeless. They were all a pretty tight lipped bunch and would just change the subject. Hmmm maybe they were a bunch of sheep poachers on the lam. lol
Are you in Northern Ireland or south? Somewhere there I have relatives..but most of my clan left for England starting with my grandad, now my father, aunts' and uncles are all gone as well so none of us left either here, in the US or the UK have a clue about who they are..and having a pretty common Irish last name..it would be near hopeless. They were all a pretty tight lipped bunch and would just change the subject. Hmmm maybe they were a bunch of sheep poachers on the lam. lol
hydronic systems
one definite advantage to hydronic systems is that the absence of blowing air makes for a healthier household. And some systems will supply the hot water for the household. Their are 2 ways to go for air conditioning; chilled water or 2) a self-contained separate A/C unit. As much as I would like to forego cooling altogther, it is necessary down in these lower latitudes.
Many of our older homes built before WWII had either a floor furnace, space heaters, or both. When I was a kid I remember strolling across a hot grate of a FF barefoot and got the suprise of my life-waffle feet. I had never spent the night with anyone who had one till then and oboy. You don't forget that. So many older homes in my area have had central air and heat installed, you don't encounter those older methods of heating anymore very often.
one definite advantage to hydronic systems is that the absence of blowing air makes for a healthier household. And some systems will supply the hot water for the household. Their are 2 ways to go for air conditioning; chilled water or 2) a self-contained separate A/C unit. As much as I would like to forego cooling altogther, it is necessary down in these lower latitudes.
Many of our older homes built before WWII had either a floor furnace, space heaters, or both. When I was a kid I remember strolling across a hot grate of a FF barefoot and got the suprise of my life-waffle feet. I had never spent the night with anyone who had one till then and oboy. You don't forget that. So many older homes in my area have had central air and heat installed, you don't encounter those older methods of heating anymore very often.
In this part of Ohio,
it is forced air, and
1) Natural gas
2) Electricity
then
3) Fuel oil
Here in the city/suburbs, it's gas 3 to 1, except in some houses that were built during times of gas connection moratoriums, in the late 70s.
However, in more rural areas, it is fuel oil and propane.
Grandmother Loudenback had oil heat, and her basement always smelled unpleasantly of the stuff.
Even with frequent checks of the tank, and of the burner.
New England has far more oil heat in the cities.
Oil fired hot water happens at least two ways, a coil in the furnace/boiler, or a true, separate stand alone oil fired water heater. Either way, the water from oil fired heaters is extremely hot--often steaming.
I wish, wish, wish I could get my landlord to update my furnace! Had the Gas Man out for a different matter two years ago, and he said that "my" furnace was very old. (40 plus years, and probably no higher than 60% efficiency). However, a landlord is not going to replace something like a furnace until it is beyond repair.
Lawrence/Maytagbear
it is forced air, and
1) Natural gas
2) Electricity
then
3) Fuel oil
Here in the city/suburbs, it's gas 3 to 1, except in some houses that were built during times of gas connection moratoriums, in the late 70s.
However, in more rural areas, it is fuel oil and propane.
Grandmother Loudenback had oil heat, and her basement always smelled unpleasantly of the stuff.
Even with frequent checks of the tank, and of the burner.
New England has far more oil heat in the cities.
Oil fired hot water happens at least two ways, a coil in the furnace/boiler, or a true, separate stand alone oil fired water heater. Either way, the water from oil fired heaters is extremely hot--often steaming.
I wish, wish, wish I could get my landlord to update my furnace! Had the Gas Man out for a different matter two years ago, and he said that "my" furnace was very old. (40 plus years, and probably no higher than 60% efficiency). However, a landlord is not going to replace something like a furnace until it is beyond repair.
Lawrence/Maytagbear
I've never heard of anybody using oil heat around here. Natural gas, propane, electric. Forced air is the norm, but some old larger buildings may have radiators. My high school had hot water in the floors, with a gas-fired boiler. That was in the 1970s and early 80s, no idea if they still have it or have 'updated.'
I had a heat pump at the old house, and also at the new. Here's a pic at the old house minutes before a defrost triggered, although this is an extreme case.
I had a heat pump at the old house, and also at the new. Here's a pic at the old house minutes before a defrost triggered, although this is an extreme case.
Oil fired hot water heaters.
The link below is for Bock brand hot water heaters. They apprear to be a premium brand.
Oil-fired storage-type hot water heaters are sometimes used instead of an instantaneous coil in a hydronic or steam boiler in places that do not have natural gas.
Most homes here that have natural gas and need more hot water than an instantaneous coil can provide tend to install gas- fired storage-type hot water heaters.
The cost here of gas and oil for residentail use and demands is usually somewhat nearly neck-and neck on average with a few years of one being lsee expesvie than the other. Rule of thunb: Normally the dirtier the fuel the less expensive it is.
Clean to dirty:
Electric
Gas
Fuel oil (Residential, Grade #2)
Fuel oil (Commerical, Grade #6)
Gas fired units are chosen over oil fired in that the cost of a gas hot water heater is much less expensive to buy; the oil-burner head is expensive. The head is bought separately from the tank.
www.bockwaterheaters.com
The link below is for Bock brand hot water heaters. They apprear to be a premium brand.
Oil-fired storage-type hot water heaters are sometimes used instead of an instantaneous coil in a hydronic or steam boiler in places that do not have natural gas.
Most homes here that have natural gas and need more hot water than an instantaneous coil can provide tend to install gas- fired storage-type hot water heaters.
The cost here of gas and oil for residentail use and demands is usually somewhat nearly neck-and neck on average with a few years of one being lsee expesvie than the other. Rule of thunb: Normally the dirtier the fuel the less expensive it is.
Clean to dirty:
Electric
Gas
Fuel oil (Residential, Grade #2)
Fuel oil (Commerical, Grade #6)
Gas fired units are chosen over oil fired in that the cost of a gas hot water heater is much less expensive to buy; the oil-burner head is expensive. The head is bought separately from the tank.
Gas, Electric, Oil Water Heaters | Bock Water Heaters | Home
Bock Water Heaters home page
Heating oil vs. gas
Yes, here in New England a/k/a the northeast (being New York State, and from there, all states north and east!) fuel-oil is very frequently seen for heat and hot water, especially outside larger cities where natural gas in not available.
My understanding is that New England is generally fuel-oil territory; and that the mid-west is the biggest user of natural gas. On the east coast, electric resistance and/or heat-pumps become popular from the Carolinas and south.
Oil burning boilers can be converted to natural gas by way of a power-burner. It throws the gas into a boiler as does an oil-burers; one big flame. The oil-burning "head" is removed, and then is replaced by the gas-burning "head".
A gas-boiler may not be converted to oil, in that the multiple burner tubes gas uses do not allow for a one-cubic foot combustion chamber and the intorduction of an oil-type single point-of-entry flame.
Yes, here in New England a/k/a the northeast (being New York State, and from there, all states north and east!) fuel-oil is very frequently seen for heat and hot water, especially outside larger cities where natural gas in not available.
My understanding is that New England is generally fuel-oil territory; and that the mid-west is the biggest user of natural gas. On the east coast, electric resistance and/or heat-pumps become popular from the Carolinas and south.
Oil burning boilers can be converted to natural gas by way of a power-burner. It throws the gas into a boiler as does an oil-burers; one big flame. The oil-burning "head" is removed, and then is replaced by the gas-burning "head".
A gas-boiler may not be converted to oil, in that the multiple burner tubes gas uses do not allow for a one-cubic foot combustion chamber and the intorduction of an oil-type single point-of-entry flame.
Electric to oil conversion.
When making electrcicity as currently done, 2/3 of the total energy input of fossil-fuel is lost as wate heat. Therefore only 1/3 is harnessed.
In most parts of the this country electricity is 3 times more exensive than using a fossil-fuel directly for heat. This is not true in areas that use hydro-electic power--- making that type/source of elctrcicity inexpensive.
When making electrcicity as currently done, 2/3 of the total energy input of fossil-fuel is lost as wate heat. Therefore only 1/3 is harnessed.
In most parts of the this country electricity is 3 times more exensive than using a fossil-fuel directly for heat. This is not true in areas that use hydro-electic power--- making that type/source of elctrcicity inexpensive.
Beckett was the most popular domestic oil-burning head for decades.
Now Riello (Italian)appears to be taking over. There is a red Riello head pictured further back in the thread on that red/orange boiler shown in Ireland/UK. (The one in the weight-room)
There was a nasty rumor at one time that it can burn wine, but this has not been confirmed!! (JOKE!)
Beckett was easy to service and had very standard parts. But it burned "dirty" (incompletely), and Soot buidlup had to be cleaned out of the boiler once a year. (There are doors on a boilers and furnaces that swing open to do this)
Boilers heat water (to make steam or hot-water.)
Furnaces heat air.
Cleaning is included as part of a servcie contract that costs soemthing like $40 per year. For that price replacement of all componets needed to burn or regulate oil and a yearly cleaning are inclued. The logic is that the oil delivery co. will send a techie to fix your unit for free, keep you warm and prevent you from converting to gas.
Now Riello (Italian)appears to be taking over. There is a red Riello head pictured further back in the thread on that red/orange boiler shown in Ireland/UK. (The one in the weight-room)
There was a nasty rumor at one time that it can burn wine, but this has not been confirmed!! (JOKE!)
Beckett was easy to service and had very standard parts. But it burned "dirty" (incompletely), and Soot buidlup had to be cleaned out of the boiler once a year. (There are doors on a boilers and furnaces that swing open to do this)
Boilers heat water (to make steam or hot-water.)
Furnaces heat air.
Cleaning is included as part of a servcie contract that costs soemthing like $40 per year. For that price replacement of all componets needed to burn or regulate oil and a yearly cleaning are inclued. The logic is that the oil delivery co. will send a techie to fix your unit for free, keep you warm and prevent you from converting to gas.
