I don't understand why manual filter dishwashers are so popular...

[thomasortega]

Is there so many differences between "Eco" and "Normal" cycles between manufacturers?

My DW does the main wash at 60°C, plus four rinses and the final rinse/drying at 70°C on normal cycle.

On ECO cycle the only difference is that the main wash washes at 65°C. The drying is at 70°C again

There is another cycle, which i think is ridiculous, the "express" cycle. It washes at 40°C, rinses twice and that's all It doesn't have the heated drying rinse. The user manual says it's recommended only for light dirt or for dishes stored for long time. The whole cycle lasts 19 minutes and it's the only timed cycle. (all the others vary according to the water inlet temperature) 

 

[dj-gabriele]

4 rinses?!?

Never seen a dishwasher that does so many.
Even on the most powerful cycle the most I've seen is three, only the last one heated.

Kenmoreguy89, I have no idea what machines you tried but in mine I even wash the removable splash guard covering the oven ceiling and it does come clean and no filter issues whatsoever.

I may suggest you try a semi-professional SMEG machine, you can even it with three phase connection that is by no means A+++ in the pro-cyles and does the pots&pans one in 16 minutes, I'm sure it will suffice your needs.

 

[mrb627]

Stinky Dishwashers

Come from the lack of an active vent as most dishwashers use a condensate drying method.

Malcolm

 

[logixx]

I, too, was an uneducated consumer when we got our German-made AEG dishwasher back in 1999. I fell for the A-rated ECO cycle that ran for 150 minutes, could clean practically everything and saved energy. Well, some years after we bough this dishwasher, dishes started to reek - especially glasses. I tried everything: Intensive cycle, chlorine bleach, dishwasher cleaner, different detergents. One day, I was ready to just toss the entire upper rack of stinky (yet visibly clean) dishes out of the window. It eventually got replaced with a more frugal Siemens dishwasher that has practically never been used on Eco and runs on sani-rinse every time (only adds five minutes to the cycle anyway). The Siemens has two sensor cycles for normal and heavy soil and it's all I used except for the occasional fast cycle. The Siemens never developed a funky odor and cleans much better than the AEG.

When I moved, I got another (even more frugal) Siemens off fo eBay. The only time I use the Eco cycle is when I have a light load and even then, I add the speed mode to it, which adds extra water and heat.

Gabriele, my Siemens does three heated rinses when using an Intensive cycle with varioSpeed.

 

[dj-gabriele]

my Siemens does three heated rinses when using an Intensive cycle with varioSpeed.

Wow, what model is that?

 

[washer111]

Our DishDrawer never gives smelly glasses:

 

I almost religiously use the Delicates 50º (in the Main-Wash) cycle. Final Rinse, after 2 short intermediate rinses is at 60º. As I've stated before, this cycle is identical to Normal, except for the additional rinse. Normal is actually meant to be longer, but some glitch in the machine's programming causes the Main-Wash to cut back almost 15 minutes... So I don't bother with it. 

I never bother with the other cycles that much, since this produces perfectly clean results most of the time, but I do use Heavy (70 or 65 in the Main-Wash) every week or so to help keep the machine clean. Trying not to wear the machine too much, don't want to break it

 

[logixx]

Gabriele,

it's an A++ model from 2009.

 

[mielerod69]

Miele PG 8082 SCi

This is going to be my next dishwasher. The Miele PG 8082 SCi has a 190L/min pump, 20 amp connection and washes at 65°C for the Short and Medium cycles. Short cycle takes 17 mins with hot water connection and uses 17 litres of water.
I currently have a G 5935 SCi and clean the filter after 60 programmes and there is hardly anything in there.

I love the dishwasher cake test they did in the Miele UK showroom. I have actually met the trainer in the video.

http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWBqc3j4diw

 

[dj-gabriele]

@logix

And what is the exact model? I'm so curious!

And about the cake test... I did it years ago on the BOL Indesit I have at my rental place (with a full load!) and did the same good results, everybody should try for themselves!

 

[passatdoc]

ditto what pulsator wrote

I have a 2001 Bosch 300 series with a manual clean filter. Since I descale the machine, as well as my washer once per quarter using citric acid, this task serves as a reminder to check the DW filter as well. Now and then I'll find a stray bit of paper (label came off a jar that was washed). I scrape but do not rinse, and it can take me 5-7 days to fill the machine, so some loads being run are up to a week old. Everything comes out spotless*, and most of the time I find nothing at all in the filter. It's just something to be checked periodically.

 

*I am still using phosphated Finish Powerball tablets. Several years ago, when reports began to surface on this board that phosphates were being removed from DW detergent, I went to Costco and bought/hoarded four of their large canister packages (some packs have 80 tablets, others 100 tablets). In addition, some friends bought a KA with a detergent door that did not easily close over the Powerballs they had purchased at Costco, so I inherited 2 1/2 large canisters from them. Hence I am sitting on what amounts to a five year supply----some of the inherited ones still say "Electrasol" on their wrappers!! Each tab is individually wrapped, and I get good results from the "Electrasol" tabs, which must date from before 2008. I've heard from some that the phosphate-free detergents don't work as well. An appliance store owner advised me to be sure to prime the hot water line at a nearby sink before starting a DW with phosphate-free detergent, because in most machines the first rinse isn't heated by the DW and the temp will equal the temp of your incoming hot water line. 

 

[appnut]

Me? I don't scrape very well. If it's not deemed excessive by me with what's on the plate, directly in it goes. What's left in/on serving dishes gets put into storage containers for the fridge and whatever is left on those, goes right into the dishwasher) Hence what constitutes part of the parameters of a BobLoad. Why should I scrub out the starchy remnants of rice on the bottom of a sauce pan. The dishwasher will take care of it. (I love hearing rice being ground up and purged from the soil collector). That's what I'm used to. As Gansky1 remarked to a salesman at TNFM when these started showing up in U.S. brands as Whirlpool "I have a friend in Texas. These would never do with how he loads a dishwasher." My appliances have to PERFORM for me thank you very much. And most of you would probably deem it abuse. Wes (Volsboy1) and I are cut from the same dish cloth lol.

 

[logixx]

Gabriele, it's a SN58M552DE made in September of 2009.

I have often wondered about this "Cake Test" videos. Are these cakes mostly made of frosting? I have seen a Whirlpool commercial with chocolate cake and its looked like a lot of frosting. How much actual dough do these cakes have?

 

[henene4]

Next sommer...

... I may try this with our Bosch slimline. And maybe one of my belover choclate cakes will be used. But isn't their a dedicated cake which is used to test the backing abilities of ovens here in Germany? Wouldn't it make sense to use this for such a test....

 

[volsboy1]

They suck bad removable filters I can't stand them.I will not buy a dishwasher that will not pass my 1 quart of hard cat food test.

I dump it in the bottom and if there is anything left I will sell it.My L.G. can barley do it but there is particles everywhere

I did the same with my 1984 Kitchenaid Superba 21 and all of it was gone by the first pre-wash not one particle left anywhere.

I cleaned up that K-Aid there is no rust anywhere that was dirt.The heaters and everything is perfect in that machine

this machine was never used maybe once or twice a year that is it.They make these new dishwasher's and use little 60watt

motors for there main pump now and 5 years ago those were drain motors.They make them run with very little water and make

them run for 4 hours or more to save energy, but this makes no sense in the long run.Dishwasher's used to last 14 years or so I have

been replacing them every 3 or 4 years now.How can that be more efficient throwing away dishwasher's in dumps or having a dishwasher with more power and use a little more water and a 50 min cycle?I tested my K-Aid filled it full with everything

did not rinse nothing threw in a cake and it was all gone in the light cycle everything was.The dishes were spotless and everything

clean and dry in about 40 mins.Yup I am like BOB I wish I could mount my disposer in my dishwasher...LOL

 

[alineber]

Volsboy1 (Wes), appnut (Bob), & washman

You three guys are great! I'm not going to prewash dishes either. If a dishwasher can't cut the mustard or takes 2 to 4 hours, then I don't want it. BTW, I have done my own dishwasher tests just like Wes and Bob. I can take a cookie sheet pan, with burnt pizza remains, throw it in my 1993 KitchenAid and in 1 hr it's completely removed.

 

[whirlcool]

A few months ago we put a 2 qt pan full of cooked pasta in the DW that was still about 1/2 full of food. Except for a few bits around the filter intake at the bottom of our Maytag it got rid of it all. No debris on any dishes.

 

[jlbrazil]

Cleaning filters..

Guys, I really have nothing to complain about this "new" system. I've got a 2010 Whirlpool dishwasher (From the time Whirlpool built dishwashers in Germany) and I clean the filters like every 3-4 months. When I bought the machine I used to clean after each wash, then after each week, month.. One time I forgot to clean the filter for 6 months and it was.. clean.
After that I stopped to worry about cleaning it. lol

On the rinses, I only use it on the Normal (auto) cycle. On the average it does 1 cold and 1 hot rinse. When things are very dirty it does 2 cold rinses and 1 hot (60-70º) rinse. The Normal cycle varies from 1:10 all the way up to 2:10.
The model is almost like the one in the picture, but with a smaller display.

 

[washman]

When phosphates were finally removed

performance died until the manufacturers could come up with something that remotely did the job.

I posted in another thread that very issue with an old school Kitchenaid that suddenly stopped cleaning well. I ran vinegar, dishwasher magic, the works and it just did not clean as well. Even had a guy tear it apart only to find nothing wrong.

With the dishwasher that is.

There was everything wrong with the Finish I used. I noted in the post that the directions clearly stated make sure inlet water is 140 and to fill BOTH cups completely. Which I did yet it did not really improve matters. I ended up having to buy Lemishine to put in the main wash cycle, manually I might add, just to get the dishes clean. The reason? All phosphates were removed!

Which reinforces my take on the "eco" craze that has everyone's attention these days. Sure, on one end I suppose mother earth is thanking us for removing phosphates but on the other side, I have to use twice the amount of detergent which means I buy MORE of the stuff, not less, which means Finish makes MORE to restock the shelves at the store and to top it all off, I have to invest more money to buy boosters to do what the "new improved eco sanctioned" detergent cannot do.

Which is clean my dishes.

 

[washer111]

Agree with you Washman

At least on this front!

 

The thing is, its NOT domestic Phosphate usage that causes the environmental impact, rather the careless and frivolous usage by farmers (and/or industry) who don't bother calculating and experimenting with products or trying other means of improving soil quality (Altering soil pH, resting landing etc.).

I think the actual figures state that since Phosphates were banned in one of the Washington's, the river is still choked with algae from farmers and factories using Phosphate products.

 

If it were more economically viable, I would love to get several cartons of Finish detergent here in Australia to ship over to you guys. We're lucky and still seem to have about 30% Phosphates in Finish and Fairy products. I've just switched back to Finish after a "hiatus" with an "Earth" detergent and "Morning Fresh."

The Finish out-cleans both products and smells nicer too. It also doesn't clog the machine with foam like the Earth product does...

And I'm talking about results with a modern machine* on a SOFTENED water supply. I can't imagine what those here in town without a softener are dealing with...

 

*As you're probably well aware, an F&P DishDrawer from 2011. Use the "Delicates" cycle, since its only an hour and gives me three rinses (I guess Eco-Nazis don't expect people to wash delicates, so they don't screw around with it!)

 

[alineber]

Thank you both

Washman and Washer111

 

I agree 100% with what you guys said.

 

The thing is, its NOT domestic Phosphate usage that causes the environmental impact, rather the careless and frivolous usage by farmers (and/or industry) who don't bother calculating and experimenting with products or trying other means of improving soil quality (Altering soil pH, resting landing etc.).

I think the actual figures state that since Phosphates were banned in one of the Washington's, the river is still choked with algae from farmers and factories using Phosphate products. 

 

<span style="color: #000000;">Hear, Hear!!!!  I've been trying to tell people about this.  Some will listen and some won't.</span>