I have never heard someone get on TV and

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Lee.....

You have to know (I think you do) that it will cost far more than the $940 billion being thrown around..... that is a preliminary number - it will cost far, far, far more than anyone could ever imagine! National sales tax coming down the way before too long.

BTW folks.... Amnesty will be the next biggie coming down the pike and it will be handled just like this health care thing -it will be shoved down our throats in like manner! It's coming so get ready!
 
Wow! I wish I was living in your America!

No one has the right to someone else's time, money, service or talent. If they want to give it freely, then no problem. This is what it means to be in America. The government gets out of your way and the private sector takes care of it. And it does, and it does quite well.

In My America, I can't get insurance I can afford. As I stated the last time I checked my policy premium would be $1600/mo. Why? Because I have pre Barret's esophagus. This is a condition when it advances to Barret's become pre-cancerous. So I'm pre that stage and with meds and tests that's where I"ll stay. But I can't get the coverage to pay for the needed testing. My Doc, gave me meds for over a decade but now he can't get then to give away so I'm buying less effective OTC Prilosec. That sure is Big Business taking care of problems.

I'm fine with free enterprise in many cases, but when it comes to public health, safety and such in my book you sure as hell better not be making a buck off my suffering. You want to make a better widget, go for it, but you better make sure it's safe, and I do not trust any corporation to look out for my good, only their bottom line - so I want over-site. The ONLY way I'll get that over-site is via the Govt. I can't go out and hire inspectors or labs to test products. These are things Govt. can and should do and even if they have problems doing it it's better than nothing. I think part of the problem with the Govt. is that some people WANT it to fail so they can privatize everything, then we can all be raped by big business.
 
To all

I AM NOT saying that we DONT need it WE DO I know first hand.. We need anything that will keep the insurance companies from rapeing us all. But taking away money from hospitals and healthcare providers and expecting us to do more is dummer than stupid..
 
why shouldn't it be possible in the USA?

Beacuse the Gov. won't leave things ALONE! And seems to think their fingers must be up everyones ass.
 
It may not be perfect, but at least its a step in the right direction.

The comments racing around here don't seem to be dissimiliar to the campaign run by various groups to discriminate against gays. If we let gays adopt, it'll be the end of the family unit as we know it, vs if we give everyone health cover its the end of the world.

Universal health care is never going to be perfect, but it works pretty well in almost all of the world, excluding the US. In Australia, approximately 3% of your income goes into the Medicare levy (A Tax) and this pays for a proportion of the Universal health care. It still isnt free to see a GP, but it is to go to hospital, you only pay up to $32 per script and should you have a pre-existing illness you still have coverage.

Medicare has been run by the Australian Tax Office since the beginning in the 70's and it simplifies matters really, they collect the medicare levy and these days once you spend more than $900/$1400 as a single/couple on health care you get more money back in your tax return.

Yes the public system has issues, there are waiting lists for elective surgery and it has other problems, but it is highly unusual for someone to die whilst waiting for treatment and nobody ever dies because they are trying to save to afford a proceedure.

If you want to go around the public system, you then have the choice to purchase Private cover which entitles you to private hospitals and doctors of your choice within much shorter time frames. Our health insurers cannot discriminate against existing conditions, you just have to pay 12 months of premiums before you can claim against an existing issue. Even the Health insurance price increases are fixed by the Government. This years increase is 6%, but thats still only $130 per month for almost top level hospital cover and top level extras.

My mum is on a low income and has been diabetic for 55years, she struggles to pay for her private health cover, but with a pre-existing condition, she pays the same as I do despite the fact she is 30 years older and is now receiving regular treatment for the side effects of diabetes and old age. Tell me how that is a bad thing? All the money that she spends on diabetic equipment, Physio's, hand surgeons, endocrinologists, most is part paid by Heath insurance and she gets a proportion back of the rest come tax return time. Death would be her only alternative without that support from the Govt. And before anyone suggests she should work harder, her only crime was getting married at 19 and having kids and then getting divorced in her mid 40's after 25 years as a housewife. She works fulltime, but $40K only goes so far

People seems to be getting very excited about too Much government regulation, it seems to have worked here very well for the last 35 years.
 
Nobody likes big government, but . . .

Who else is going to take on the insurance industry and trial lawyers? As Peter pointed out, the huge costs of lawsuits and malpractice insurance are an important part of our out of control costs. So far nobody has been able to do much at all about this situation and it continues to get worse and worse. Having the government take a part in this is a last resort, but there's literally no one else who has the power to do it.
 
Hi brisnat,

You were probably too young at the time to remember, but there was a brief period during the early 1980s when the Fraser government dismantled Medibank and gave us a completely private health insurance system. The only difference, insurance companies couldn't discriminate or drop their clients for chronic and pre-existing conditions. The largest insurance companies were governemtn backed as well.

Now, in regards to medication scripts only costing $32 per item, let us clarify a couple of points. Firstly, for medicines to only cost $32 they have to be listed under the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme. There are a lot of medicines, particularly new ones, that are not listed under that scheme and they can cost an absolute fortune. Even if all the meds one requires are covered by the PBS, requiring several medications under the same script can still make it very expensive. If you are a pensioner or on some kind of social security benefit, with a health care card entitlement, the cost of each medication comes to only $5. Though, for those who do not qualify for a health care card there is little financial relief. Believe it or not, but there are lots of working people who go without essential meds, because they can't afford them.

On a different note, do you remember the Edelsten medical centers that popped up everywhere during the 1980s? Each one came with chandeliers, grand pianos, plush carpet, plush lounge chairs and sofas, big screen televisions and they were supposed to be state of the art in every respect. Only poor Dr Edelsten ended up in jail for larceny.

I've noticed that fewer medical centers now bulk-bill for GP consults. The one that I frequent charges $30 per visit, unless one is a pensioner or under 16. The biggest benefit is that the waiting room doesn't get quite as busy anymore and I don't have to wait so long to see my doctor.

regards

Olav
 
Amazing article today on Huffpo:

"We watched Obama master the mechanics of legislative politics, cobbling together a majority one vote at a time. And we observed the Republican right reduced to sputtering frustration.

What a splendid shift from the Obama who less than a month ago went imploringly to reason with the House Republican Caucus.

Until very recently, the press treated this battle as a symmetrical stand-off. Now, with the president at last regaining control of the narrative, the Republicans are revealed as pure obstructionists. As the bill takes effect and citizens actually experience benefits (and as Obama said, "Lo and behold, nobody is pulling the plug on Grandma,") the Republicans will lose both as the party of No, and as a party that tried and failed to block a beneficial reform that citizens will come to value.

It has taken more than fourteen months for Obama to vindicate as president the leadership potential that we saw on the campaign trail; fourteen months to give up on the fantasy of bipartisanship; fourteen months to start truly inspiring ordinary people as he did as a candidate.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi deserves to share this moment. She never gave up on this legislation, and she kept after Obama and his aides to be tougher, smarter, and unapologetically partisan. She as much as Obama did the hard work of pulling together a majority, and kept Obama from caving in to Rahm Emanuel's advice to seek a puny bill that the Republicans might support.

The media is notorious for exaggerating the ups and downs of a president. A few weeks ago, Obama and health reform were doomed and Obama was not up to the job. In the coming days, we will see a jubilant Obama on the cover of newsmagazines. He will be lionized as a giant-killer. His approval ratings will rise, both because more Americans are paying attention to the beneficial features of the bill as opposed to the Republican caricatures and because Americans love a winner."

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www.huffingtonpost.com
 
"One of a doctor's biggest expense is malpractice insurance (there is that pesky insurance company again). Tort reform and limit to lawsuits would lower this cost significantly."

That is one of the bigger issues regarding health care costs that needs to be dealt with. But many, if not most, politicians are lawyers and will protect their own. Lawsuits affect not only malpractice insurance costs, but equipment costs, drug costs, etc. Reigning in the frivolous lawsuits, along with other reforms, will help to bring down some of the high costs of health care.
 
Huffington is alway overly exaggerated.......

They are so far left they can't see right. No, somebody has to say no so on with the show Repbulicans...... not obstructionest - just simply right in this case. This is a travesty and Obama is not God. I long ago washed my hands of this guy and you will not ever see me refer to him as anything other than Obama or Mr. Obama.... never president.
 
This guy is FUNNY. Did you read his 3/18 entry (Obama on Fox "News"(or Python Eats Kangaroo)? Hysterical!
 
"1) Any 2700+ page bill is bad legislating by bad legislators."

Such bills that include altering or expanding existing legislation are typically long because they must quote the existing law, with strikeouts and such to indicate where the changes go. Most of the bill, as a result, is repetition of existing law.

"2) 30M uninsured people now being forced to buy insurance -- being forced to increase insurance profits by the government."

They are not forced to buy health insurance. They can opt instead to pay a relatively small fine (which is indexed to income). They are also free to cut off their noses to spite their faces, something the Teabaggers seem to excel at.

"3) Nothing in here to help medical providers to lower cost.

I said it months ago, I'll say it again: This is nothing more than a government enforced insurance scam.

And it is going to be enforced by the IRS and 4 new bureaucracies.

Not to mention it is probably unconstitutional. Bring on the law suits.

Here comes a national sales tax to pay for all this.

Can't wait for November... "

Nobody is talking about a national sales tax, period. Plus, as I recall, Obama and the Dems wanted to add a government run "public option" to force the private insurance companies to offer competitive rates along with real policies (not the ridiculous highly limited policies they are trying to pass off as decent coverage). But the conservatives and the Republicans (in which company you apparently belong) waged a fierce and unrelenting campaign AGAINST the public option. So please don't come whining now about how the bill rewards private insurance companies. It's what you WANTED, after all.
 
See..... it's worked out just fine!

This thread has been rather civil I think - I mean I started it off equating Nancy Pelosi to a witch.... even the CA folks didn't beat on me too bad - they just figure I'm a poor misguided southern type that has spent too long in the mountains - LOL! No, I'm not the brighest bulb in the box but not the dark one either so thanks for being civil about things - do like the passion on both sides though.

Yes, of course the system needs to be worked on I just don't know that complete government control is the answer to all the problems we face in this area. One thing I didn't count on is a president hell bent on sticking the finger of government into just about every aspect of life along with a willing group of like minded senators and representatives. Federal goverment needs to remain very limited per the original intent of the founders providing for the common defense of the country (good strong military) etc and leave the rest of governing the people to the "many states" and local goverment.
 

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