Lots of Samsung and LG and GE front load washers
Are fully made and assembled in China, check the label to be sure.
John
Are fully made and assembled in China, check the label to be sure.
John
I really like the look of the new Whirlpool Front Loaders
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mark_wpduet
Well-known member
I'm sorry. I thought they were made in South Korea or the USA... I know they have factories in the USA and South Korea... I had no clue they went via China with some of their stuff..
I know GE's FL washers are Chinese
I know GE's FL washers are Chinese
panasonicvac
Well-known member
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whirlpool copying GE
Why is Whirlpool copying GE and vice versa?
Why is Whirlpool copying GE and vice versa?
I do believe my 2020/2021 LG FLer was made in the US here.
washerdude
Well-known member
Samsung + Whirlpool + GE = The New Whirlpool
Seems LGs TurboWash feature with the recirculation pump has had its impact on the market. AFAIK, GE seems to be the only one that isn't using a recirculation pump in any of its front loaders.
There seems to be variation in terms of implementation on how Whirlpool/Maytag, Electrolux, LG and Samsung appear to utilize the recirculation pump during the wash phase.
Whirlpool and Electrolux both appear to utilize the recirculation pump periodically throughout the wash cycle. What they appear to do is saturate the load with the soapy solution, then tumble it around for a bit and repeat and seems to be the case in all their cycles. What this would provide is more mechanical action while in tandem ensuring the load is evenly saturated with the solution and thus would actually improve cleaning performance over LGs Turbowash. In fact on TurboWash models during the Heavy Duty cycle on LG front loaders, the wash portions utilization of the recirculation spray is very similar to what Electrolux and Whirlpool are doing with their implementation. Here LG does not continuously spray the load down while tumbling as seen on other cycles, what they do instead is kick on the recirculation pump in few second bursts and pauses while tumbling the load.
On my 2018 LG WM4370, it appears to be 3 burst sprays during each tumble in any direction on the heavy duty cycle with TurboWash enabled. Each burst spray seems to get weaker signifying that the solution in the outer drum is infact being transferred up into the load and being tumbled around, the process repeats through the entire duration of the long wash portion.
Outside of the Heavy Duty cycle, LG utilizes the recirculation spray all the time while tumbling, the implementation here is exactly what they market it to be...speeding up the wash cycle by ensuring the load is fully saturated at all times with the solution albeit at decreased mechanical action due to the load being more slippery. LG clearly knows of this as the functionality of Turbowash vastly changes on Heavy Duty cycles and mimics similarly to what Electrolux and Whirlpool do with the recirculation spray in all their cycles.
It's worth mentioning that when you compare an LG Non-Turbowash front loader with a LG Turbowash front loader, one of the major differences you can tell is how fast the laundry gets saturated. ALL LG front loaders fill through the outer tub. The fill portion on LG Non-Turbowash front loaders appears that it's meant to gradually and slowly saturate the load until it hits proper saturation levels through fill bursts. IMO it takes ridiculously long and takes up a good chunk of time in the cycle. LG Turbowash front loaders fill through the drum and saturate with the recirculation pump which cuts down on time tremendously. Other players in the industry seem to have always filled through the drum saturating laundry almost immediately. I much prefer this way and what LG TurboWash models do.
Keep in mind that neither LG nor Samsung market this feature to aid cleaning but to reduce cycle times.
Electrolux and Whirlpool actually say nothing about but it is implemented in a way to aid cleaning performance.
I'm actually very much intrigued by these newer Whirlpool front loaders. They look much better than the previous model, however the previous model also was plagued with computer board issues which I have a feeling will transfer over to the newer ones given Whirlpools track record with computers...
Seems LGs TurboWash feature with the recirculation pump has had its impact on the market. AFAIK, GE seems to be the only one that isn't using a recirculation pump in any of its front loaders.
There seems to be variation in terms of implementation on how Whirlpool/Maytag, Electrolux, LG and Samsung appear to utilize the recirculation pump during the wash phase.
Whirlpool and Electrolux both appear to utilize the recirculation pump periodically throughout the wash cycle. What they appear to do is saturate the load with the soapy solution, then tumble it around for a bit and repeat and seems to be the case in all their cycles. What this would provide is more mechanical action while in tandem ensuring the load is evenly saturated with the solution and thus would actually improve cleaning performance over LGs Turbowash. In fact on TurboWash models during the Heavy Duty cycle on LG front loaders, the wash portions utilization of the recirculation spray is very similar to what Electrolux and Whirlpool are doing with their implementation. Here LG does not continuously spray the load down while tumbling as seen on other cycles, what they do instead is kick on the recirculation pump in few second bursts and pauses while tumbling the load.
On my 2018 LG WM4370, it appears to be 3 burst sprays during each tumble in any direction on the heavy duty cycle with TurboWash enabled. Each burst spray seems to get weaker signifying that the solution in the outer drum is infact being transferred up into the load and being tumbled around, the process repeats through the entire duration of the long wash portion.
Outside of the Heavy Duty cycle, LG utilizes the recirculation spray all the time while tumbling, the implementation here is exactly what they market it to be...speeding up the wash cycle by ensuring the load is fully saturated at all times with the solution albeit at decreased mechanical action due to the load being more slippery. LG clearly knows of this as the functionality of Turbowash vastly changes on Heavy Duty cycles and mimics similarly to what Electrolux and Whirlpool do with the recirculation spray in all their cycles.
It's worth mentioning that when you compare an LG Non-Turbowash front loader with a LG Turbowash front loader, one of the major differences you can tell is how fast the laundry gets saturated. ALL LG front loaders fill through the outer tub. The fill portion on LG Non-Turbowash front loaders appears that it's meant to gradually and slowly saturate the load until it hits proper saturation levels through fill bursts. IMO it takes ridiculously long and takes up a good chunk of time in the cycle. LG Turbowash front loaders fill through the drum and saturate with the recirculation pump which cuts down on time tremendously. Other players in the industry seem to have always filled through the drum saturating laundry almost immediately. I much prefer this way and what LG TurboWash models do.
Keep in mind that neither LG nor Samsung market this feature to aid cleaning but to reduce cycle times.
Electrolux and Whirlpool actually say nothing about but it is implemented in a way to aid cleaning performance.
I'm actually very much intrigued by these newer Whirlpool front loaders. They look much better than the previous model, however the previous model also was plagued with computer board issues which I have a feeling will transfer over to the newer ones given Whirlpools track record with computers...
Not Mine
Mine was assembled here
Mine was assembled here
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
They absolutely do look SO MUCH BETTER than previous models
For what it's worth... in 2014 when I got my new Maytag dishwasher, I was so paranoid from reading reviews with control board issues... and I haven't seen a single glitch in over 10 years now...
at any rate, I do wonder if plugging in into an appliance surge protector would prevent control board issues.. I don't know... My duet from 2005 control board went out in 2007 or 2008 (I can't remember) it was replaced and from that point plugged into a surge protector...zero issues after that.. I can only assume the control board was the same as the one it replaced...maybe? I don't know. I remember thinking "God this thing is going to be a NIGHTMARE washer... a total lemon... LOL
For what it's worth... in 2014 when I got my new Maytag dishwasher, I was so paranoid from reading reviews with control board issues... and I haven't seen a single glitch in over 10 years now...
at any rate, I do wonder if plugging in into an appliance surge protector would prevent control board issues.. I don't know... My duet from 2005 control board went out in 2007 or 2008 (I can't remember) it was replaced and from that point plugged into a surge protector...zero issues after that.. I can only assume the control board was the same as the one it replaced...maybe? I don't know. I remember thinking "God this thing is going to be a NIGHTMARE washer... a total lemon... LOL
I had a whole house surge protector about 5 years ago.
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
Appnut... I rememeber you saying that earlier... very smart idea... I do know that guy that does appliance videos on youtube..the one that wears the Maytag uniform...seems like a super nice knowledgeable guy...I remember in one of his videos him saying that with today's sensitive electronics in appliances, it would be wise to plug them into a surge protector. I know there are specific surge protectors for "appliances" I'm not sure if that's different than just a general surge protector... and then some say they don't need surge protectors because they have built in surge protection....
the only appliance that I have that's actually plugged into a surge protector is my front loader. I probably shouold do the dishwasher but I haven't.
I honestly do not know if that indeed helps...but it certainly doens't hurt.
the only appliance that I have that's actually plugged into a surge protector is my front loader. I probably shouold do the dishwasher but I haven't.
I honestly do not know if that indeed helps...but it certainly doens't hurt.
Some appliances have an onboard surge supressor of sorts ... may be called a line filter or line conditioner.
washerdude
Well-known member
You must be talking about Bens Appliance and Junk, I watch him all the time!
I remember 2 years ago, we had a horrible storm - probably the worst one I've ever experienced. This storm knocked down power lines, streetlights and downed trees.
Around 10:30 AM that Saturday morning I put in a load of towels in my LG WM4370, unknowing that a storm was going to hit.
Well 30 minutes later the washer was on an intermittent spin cycle between a rinse ramping up right as the storm outside was also ramping up. I went to check on the unit while it was spinning, floor vibrating from it and simultaneously due to the storm beginning to reach its peak outside, the overhead lights also began to flicker on and off, power rapidly cycling on and off quickly. That happened about 4-5 times in a row before we completely lost power, the machine was on during that...
The power returned at around 5:30 PM but in between we would get brief spikes of power for mere seconds before going out again. When the power returned at 5:30 PM, I started the washer back up and the unit picked up where it left off prior to the power outage. 15-20 minutes later there was a loud explosion in the distance...a transformer blew, power was out right as the machine was entering the end of the final rinse, at this point the power did not come back until the next day.
The next day, when the power returned every single appliance and electronic item was fine, even the LG washer to this day continues to function just fine and hasn't had a single issue even after going through something like that.
No appliances plugged into any surge protector other than electronics like computers, tv, modem etc.
So I do think these appliances have some sort of in line suppressor or filter. I've always thought about plugging it into a Tripp Lite Isoblock but it's just one thing that keeps leaving my mind (LOL). Will have to keep trying! But ultimately I think i'm going to have to look into a whole home surge protector instead.
I remember 2 years ago, we had a horrible storm - probably the worst one I've ever experienced. This storm knocked down power lines, streetlights and downed trees.
Around 10:30 AM that Saturday morning I put in a load of towels in my LG WM4370, unknowing that a storm was going to hit.
Well 30 minutes later the washer was on an intermittent spin cycle between a rinse ramping up right as the storm outside was also ramping up. I went to check on the unit while it was spinning, floor vibrating from it and simultaneously due to the storm beginning to reach its peak outside, the overhead lights also began to flicker on and off, power rapidly cycling on and off quickly. That happened about 4-5 times in a row before we completely lost power, the machine was on during that...
The power returned at around 5:30 PM but in between we would get brief spikes of power for mere seconds before going out again. When the power returned at 5:30 PM, I started the washer back up and the unit picked up where it left off prior to the power outage. 15-20 minutes later there was a loud explosion in the distance...a transformer blew, power was out right as the machine was entering the end of the final rinse, at this point the power did not come back until the next day.
The next day, when the power returned every single appliance and electronic item was fine, even the LG washer to this day continues to function just fine and hasn't had a single issue even after going through something like that.
No appliances plugged into any surge protector other than electronics like computers, tv, modem etc.
So I do think these appliances have some sort of in line suppressor or filter. I've always thought about plugging it into a Tripp Lite Isoblock but it's just one thing that keeps leaving my mind (LOL). Will have to keep trying! But ultimately I think i'm going to have to look into a whole home surge protector instead.
launderess
Well-known member
Whiffy washing machines
Think what many fail to appreciate is that with h-axis washing machines some amount of water remains in sump after cycles are complete. Thus even drying off boot won't prevent growth of icky things if door is closed after wash day. This effect is likely multiplied for those who do warm water rinsing.
Dishwashers also have water remaining in sump after cycles are done. There various means of circulating air have long been devised. Everything from vents to IIRC active fan/air circulating systems. This because obviously one isn't going to leave a dishwasher door open between cycles to interior of machine can air out and residual moisture evaporate.
Even with commercial washers that don't have pumps but simply drain valves can have issues if doors are shut up after wash day. One notices this because attendants at local laundromat are famous for shutting machine doors as part of cleaning place before closing. Almost at once one notices condensation beginning to form on inside surface of glass porthole.
Think what many fail to appreciate is that with h-axis washing machines some amount of water remains in sump after cycles are complete. Thus even drying off boot won't prevent growth of icky things if door is closed after wash day. This effect is likely multiplied for those who do warm water rinsing.
Dishwashers also have water remaining in sump after cycles are done. There various means of circulating air have long been devised. Everything from vents to IIRC active fan/air circulating systems. This because obviously one isn't going to leave a dishwasher door open between cycles to interior of machine can air out and residual moisture evaporate.
Even with commercial washers that don't have pumps but simply drain valves can have issues if doors are shut up after wash day. One notices this because attendants at local laundromat are famous for shutting machine doors as part of cleaning place before closing. Almost at once one notices condensation beginning to form on inside surface of glass porthole.
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
Interesting about the LG / storm story... We had a storm one night at midnight that was raging and lasted 2 hours non-stop.. crazy winds, lightning, extreme rain...and my duet was mid-cycle when it started...I literally went and stopped it, and unplugged it...and I remember being on the phone with internet tech support during that time as well before the storm even started...
Not to change the subject of this thread... but I came across this video.. This guy hates his GE front loader... I want you guys to LOOK at this dispenser design.. OH MY GOD... start the video about 1:21 and go from there.. It explains what he was smelling...and I didn't get the vibe that he was a laundry sinner...
I watched another one of his videos that lead me to that video...He was reviewing his washer a couple of years ago as that vid was 2 years old...he demostrated the normal cycle... I gotta tell ya, watching that wash portion of that normal cycle, I don't ever think I've EVER seen a front loader use that little bit of water.. again, maybe because we all know the normal cycles on machines can be stingy..
Not to change the subject of this thread... but I came across this video.. This guy hates his GE front loader... I want you guys to LOOK at this dispenser design.. OH MY GOD... start the video about 1:21 and go from there.. It explains what he was smelling...and I didn't get the vibe that he was a laundry sinner...
I watched another one of his videos that lead me to that video...He was reviewing his washer a couple of years ago as that vid was 2 years old...he demostrated the normal cycle... I gotta tell ya, watching that wash portion of that normal cycle, I don't ever think I've EVER seen a front loader use that little bit of water.. again, maybe because we all know the normal cycles on machines can be stingy..
Interesting thread
Most appliances have built in surge protectors built in on the boards or ahead of the boards, the small inexpensive surge protectors that you plug things into aren't proven to do much good and can cause failures themselves and be fire hazards as well. ( be careful where you place them and what is around them in case they melt or burn.)
You're much better off putting a whole house surge protector in if you're concerned.
As a whirlpool dealer, we have not seen evidence of large numbers of failures of control boards on whirlpool front load or top load, washers or dishwashers for that matter certainly no more than other brands, the big exception to this statement is GE dishwashers in the past 10 years have had a ton of board failures.
As far as recirculating water in a front load washer, it's certainly fun to watch, and it probably speeds up the cycle a little bit, it does have the drawback of bringing the dirty gunk up from the sump and dumping it over your clothing, so the manufacturers use it judiciously to keep from getting too much gunk ,sediment and lint back in the clothing.
It also adds an additional reliability, problem, and expensive repair potential to washing machines Frigidaire Electrolux front loaders have three pumps in them for example, it's a lot of extra problems potentially.
I will stick with my Speed Queen front loader with one pump to drain the water out the machine does a beautiful job cleaning And even when I max out the settings it's still only about 65 minutes with two washes and three rinses.
John
Most appliances have built in surge protectors built in on the boards or ahead of the boards, the small inexpensive surge protectors that you plug things into aren't proven to do much good and can cause failures themselves and be fire hazards as well. ( be careful where you place them and what is around them in case they melt or burn.)
You're much better off putting a whole house surge protector in if you're concerned.
As a whirlpool dealer, we have not seen evidence of large numbers of failures of control boards on whirlpool front load or top load, washers or dishwashers for that matter certainly no more than other brands, the big exception to this statement is GE dishwashers in the past 10 years have had a ton of board failures.
As far as recirculating water in a front load washer, it's certainly fun to watch, and it probably speeds up the cycle a little bit, it does have the drawback of bringing the dirty gunk up from the sump and dumping it over your clothing, so the manufacturers use it judiciously to keep from getting too much gunk ,sediment and lint back in the clothing.
It also adds an additional reliability, problem, and expensive repair potential to washing machines Frigidaire Electrolux front loaders have three pumps in them for example, it's a lot of extra problems potentially.
I will stick with my Speed Queen front loader with one pump to drain the water out the machine does a beautiful job cleaning And even when I max out the settings it's still only about 65 minutes with two washes and three rinses.
John
<blockquote>Think what many fail to appreciate is that with h-axis washing machines some amount of water remains in sump after cycles are complete.</blockquote> I've surely not seen them all but I've not yet seen any washer or dishwasher that doesn't retain some water in the pump/sump/drain hose. I suppose commercial frontloaders with a dump valve instead of a pump and some early dishwashers with same don't retain any.
panasonicvac
Well-known member
Mark
I just saw the videos of the GE you linked. And I gotta say, wow. I was interested in a GE front loader until not only I saw the dispenser tray but also the normal cycle wash. It reminds me of the Electrolux I used before which I hated and one of the reasons is the amount of water it used. Huge deal breaker to me. My LG uses WAY more water than either machine on normal cycle. So far no issues with the detergent dispenser but I won't be using that anymore once I switch back over to using powder. However, I just quit using vinegar in the fabric softener dispenser because it has been leaking. I hope it's not broken or there's some buildup that needs to be cleaned up. The bleach dispenser does the same thing as well. I'm gonna have to take a closer look at it but if that is a common problem on LG washers, then I may have to consider looking into something else instead but now I doubt it'd be a GE.
I just saw the videos of the GE you linked. And I gotta say, wow. I was interested in a GE front loader until not only I saw the dispenser tray but also the normal cycle wash. It reminds me of the Electrolux I used before which I hated and one of the reasons is the amount of water it used. Huge deal breaker to me. My LG uses WAY more water than either machine on normal cycle. So far no issues with the detergent dispenser but I won't be using that anymore once I switch back over to using powder. However, I just quit using vinegar in the fabric softener dispenser because it has been leaking. I hope it's not broken or there's some buildup that needs to be cleaned up. The bleach dispenser does the same thing as well. I'm gonna have to take a closer look at it but if that is a common problem on LG washers, then I may have to consider looking into something else instead but now I doubt it'd be a GE.
Whiffy Washers
Some of that moisture will also be absorbed and retained by the residue from liquid detergents etc that gets left stuck to the outside of the drum and insides of the tub after the wash, because some of the common ingredients found in liquid detergents are hygroscopic, such as glycol and glycerin. It provides a medium containing moisture and food for odour producing bacteria to grow in.
Also a biofilm coating on the back of the drum is also the main cause of corrosion of the aluminium spider.
I suspect the main benefit of using powder, is most sold in the UK at least contain oxygen bleach, which kills most of the bacteria growing in the machine in every wash.
Surge Protection.
----- ----------
I think any modern washing machine with a microcontroller is likely to have a MOV and other surge protection typically found in any switch mode power supply on the circuit board. The mains filter's purpose is to stop RF interference generated by the motors etc, traveling up the cable into the mains supply and affecting other appliances. I had one explode in a 1980s microtronic machine, and it worked on for years without issue with it removed and bypassed.
I've fixed 3 electronics failures in washing machines we've had since the 1980s. The first was a failed microcontroller (long before the mains filter exploded), I believe this was a known issue with the early microcontroller used in it (not sure, but I think it might have been a 4-bit Texas Instruments one), the replacement board used a different chip (that was about all there was on the board as the replacement didn't need external transistors) and lasted many years until we scrapped the machine. The second was a failed Triac, if my memory serves me right, I think it was the motor speed control one, and my current machine had a stuck/"welded" reversing relay after 14 years of use. The last two at least aren't caused by mains surges, but are likely some of the more common failures.
Some of that moisture will also be absorbed and retained by the residue from liquid detergents etc that gets left stuck to the outside of the drum and insides of the tub after the wash, because some of the common ingredients found in liquid detergents are hygroscopic, such as glycol and glycerin. It provides a medium containing moisture and food for odour producing bacteria to grow in.
Also a biofilm coating on the back of the drum is also the main cause of corrosion of the aluminium spider.
I suspect the main benefit of using powder, is most sold in the UK at least contain oxygen bleach, which kills most of the bacteria growing in the machine in every wash.
Surge Protection.
----- ----------
I think any modern washing machine with a microcontroller is likely to have a MOV and other surge protection typically found in any switch mode power supply on the circuit board. The mains filter's purpose is to stop RF interference generated by the motors etc, traveling up the cable into the mains supply and affecting other appliances. I had one explode in a 1980s microtronic machine, and it worked on for years without issue with it removed and bypassed.
I've fixed 3 electronics failures in washing machines we've had since the 1980s. The first was a failed microcontroller (long before the mains filter exploded), I believe this was a known issue with the early microcontroller used in it (not sure, but I think it might have been a 4-bit Texas Instruments one), the replacement board used a different chip (that was about all there was on the board as the replacement didn't need external transistors) and lasted many years until we scrapped the machine. The second was a failed Triac, if my memory serves me right, I think it was the motor speed control one, and my current machine had a stuck/"welded" reversing relay after 14 years of use. The last two at least aren't caused by mains surges, but are likely some of the more common failures.
GE and water recirculation
I don't understand why GE didn't use water recirculation in any of their front load offerings. To me, it would make more sense to saturate the clothes more quickly during wash and rinse.
I don't understand why GE didn't use water recirculation in any of their front load offerings. To me, it would make more sense to saturate the clothes more quickly during wash and rinse.
launderess
Well-known member
Recirculation only becomes important and or necessary when h-axis washers don't fill with enough water to do without such things.
Many years ago now recall an industry publication that stated domestic front loading washing machines need some sort of recirculation system if water levels drop too low.
Spray/jet/recirculating or whatever you want to call them aren't new. Zanussi had it ages ago, in fact IIRC they invented the thing.
For wetting down laundry fast and so on such systems are great I suppose. But when it comes to rinsing opinions vary.
Until sump is clear such recirculating systems will regurgitate whatever mucky or froth laden water is down there, at least for part of fill. If after enough rinses sump is clear (hopefully) so will be rinses.
Personally one prefers something along lines of Umimac's "OptiSpray" which does spray rinses and also helps with fills, but no recirculation.
https://unimac.com/product/washer-e...nce-hardmount-washer-extractor/45lb-capacity/
https://unimac.com/technology/optispray/
Many years ago now recall an industry publication that stated domestic front loading washing machines need some sort of recirculation system if water levels drop too low.
Spray/jet/recirculating or whatever you want to call them aren't new. Zanussi had it ages ago, in fact IIRC they invented the thing.
For wetting down laundry fast and so on such systems are great I suppose. But when it comes to rinsing opinions vary.
Until sump is clear such recirculating systems will regurgitate whatever mucky or froth laden water is down there, at least for part of fill. If after enough rinses sump is clear (hopefully) so will be rinses.
Personally one prefers something along lines of Umimac's "OptiSpray" which does spray rinses and also helps with fills, but no recirculation.
https://unimac.com/product/washer-e...nce-hardmount-washer-extractor/45lb-capacity/
https://unimac.com/technology/optispray/
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