Ideas why Miele W1 might be tripping waterproof error?

[launderess]

Told you so!

Good for you!

As along veteran of battles with Miele sometimes one simply must take a very firm line indeed.

There is no reason other than poor build quality for a basically new machine to have issues like your's. Even worse is Miele's high handed response, which again sadly is often too common.

After paying nearly $2k for a washing machine, to be without for nearly a month and counting is just unacceptable. Worse you never know what else will happen down the line.... No best to cut losses and start with a new machine. Let Miele palm that defective washer off on someone else.

 

[launderess]

Miele has repair person issues

Which have been going on for some time now. Like others they cannot find enough qualified applicants willing to go though training/apprenticeship required.

Miele USA tried teaming up with third party services like Mr. Appliance or something, with results often being less than satisfactory.

Worse many of the older techs have either retired or left the company. Some became senior in house techs or other similar positions,but they too are reaching retirement age and or leaving.

In any case with these people go a wealth of knowledge built up over years. The new machines are more electronically complicated but quite honestly don't have build quality of old.

After spending a few thousand on an appliance, only to have it go out of order, then have to battle with Miele to get it fixed, then wait two, three, four or more weeks is why the company has issues expanding in USA.

 

[sgt10]

It was interesting to hear Miele's quality assurance person struggle to find a capable installer for the new machine. They dismantled their "Miele Concierge" install team (the ones who installed it 11 months ago). And now they have their repair teams but no installation. Since I had experienced difficulty on the initial install, I asked him not send the "B" or "C" team to do the install. But in reality, I don't think they have any team to send.

I agree with the point of seemingly few capable techs on the repair side. But really, why should the machine require any repairs after 11 months?

Could one make an argument that Miele has gone from the best build quality to one of the worst? Or perhaps LG, Samsung, WP and others do break at 11 months, we just don't hear about it.

 

[launderess]

There are lots of jobs that need doing

But not nearly enough want to do them......

Appliance repair belongs to one of many trades that young people for years have been shunning. It is one thing to be an independent repairman (or woman), but working for Miele, Kenmore or who ever is another matter.

IIRC Miele techs are on the clock; they are allotted only certain amount of time based upon what was booked, then they have to move on to keep schedule. Not everyone has the temperament and people skills to do home repair work. Quite frankly over years have spoken with and had in our home some people I'd like to have whacked with a mallet.

Big issue these days is less and less in terms of appliances are meant to be repaired. Sadly this seems to be affecting Miele.

Any new appliance can have a run of bad luck. Indeed most consumer groups are unanimous in saying that if something is to go wrong with a new appliance, it will happen in about 18 months or so. This is why they warn people off extended warranties.

As have said Miele can be rather stubborn when it comes to dealing with repair issues. Their first line response always seems to be "no, the machine cannot be doing that". If you insist that is indeed what is happening then response is "what did *YOU* do to the machine?". If it is a washing machine MieleUSA's pat response is "you must have used too much or the wrong detergent...".

For reasons of their own Miele assumes all Americans are ignorant oafs or silly housewives that haven't a clue how to operate their precious bits of German engineering. Which makes you wonder why they even bother selling them in USA at all.

Once leak was discovered coming from a place it shouldn't, that was time to offer a replacement. That the tech couldn't trace cause of leak on his own, requiring assistance from supervisor over telephone was another clue. This sort of thing isn't supposed to happen and that is obvious as no one at Miele had a clue.

Their response was to replace water path control, and hope that was cause of leak. Maybe it would cure the issue, then again maybe not. If the latter what happens next? Another month or so without an operable washing machine? Or one that barely completes a week or so of use before that dreaded anti-flooding system is again activated.

Fact that Miele still only offers a one year warranty on such expensive washers and dryers is worrying. Even SQ and LG do better IIRC.

 

[ozzie908]

Miele warranty

When registering my W1 washer I was told that it had a free 5 year warranty and they have sent me a certificate that proves it so I have with a little luck nothing to worry about until 2024

We will see

 

[lorainfurniture]

@sgt10

I really like LG front loaders, more so the ones with turbo wash. My experience with LG is that they typically go 7 years before their first repair, which is almost always a water pump. I always sell my customers the water pump, hall sensor, and motor wire harness, along with a single outlet surge suppressor. That will all but guarantee another 7 years.

 

[sgt10]

The end of vocational education

Yes, I would say we have paid a price for ending vocational education in our schools (largely for budgetary reasons I think, but who knows what else is behind it). So there are very few qualified repair people coming on line. It seems a pity as trades are genuinely needed, and why can’t we train people here? It’s clear that college doesn’t suit everyone.

With respect to Miele, I don’t know what type of training Miele gives their repair people, but it doesn’t seem up to the task. Although I have had to get Miele machines repaired in the past, this is the first time where my machine has been out for over a month. Even if I accepted their proposed repair, they told me they couldn’t get back to install the part until November 26 (my machine initially went down October 18).

I personally don’t have room to have a “back up” machine. So even though I like Miele’s wash performance, my experience with the W1 has certainly proved expensive for me (although I know many other W1 owners are very pleased and haven’t had theirs break).

I’m not even sure Miele cares about selling to North America. They certainly don’t behave as if they do.

 

[launderess]

Ending (Largely) Vocational Education

In many if not most school systems across USA had nothing to do with budget concerns.

No, it was rather pushed by liberal progressive democrats who believed such education was some how unfair and consigned certain students to a lower track education with a second tier life (blue collar).

Goal was to push every high school student into college bound academics so they would go onto higher education after graduation. This was part and parcel of huge push of all American high school grads going onto college, this regardless if they were prepared academically or mentally.

People based their efforts on declining manufacturing in USA that took hold by the 1970's and 1980's. They simply felt *all* high school graduates (this includes minorities, young women, etc...) should have the benefit of higher education which in turn would open doors.

Germany of course has a strong vocational/apprenticeship scheme, and their manufacturing base is envy of world. Yes, there is "tracking", but overall system is far less cruel than stringing some "C -" high school student along into college. There he or she after attending and basically seat warming for four years graduates with same low GPA, *and* now often thousands in debt thanks to student loans.

 

[sgt10]

College for all and the end of vocational training

Very well put. While I think that the push towards college for all independent of ability, preparation, or proclivity was an extremely important factor in the death of vocational education (and, as an aside,
has not been good for colleges either) I would add the additional complication that vocational education was/is typically only step one in following a trade. One then often needs an apprenticeship and license/union card. That’s where the need for connections and potential corruption plays a role.

And as a further aside, education tends to open doors only when the students have enough ability and have learned something valued by the market during their college experience. One must choose one’s educational course wisely, as the market may not value, say, an environmental justice degree as fully as ones college would have one believe.

 

[sgt10]

Final update on leaking Miele w1 - replaced machine

My W1 leak errors started on Oct 18. Today, finally, my new washing machine was installed (Dec 9, so just a little short of two months since the initial problem followed by numerous service visits). Once I negotiated the exchange to a new machine, I opted to double down on Miele (I may kick myself, but I was tired of having a machine that didn’t work), and I paid the extra amount to “upgrade” to the Little Giant, which is supposed to be a more rugged build.

The installers (arranged by Miele) were not familiar with the machine, and were in fact convinced that this machine (like the W1) had the built in TwinDos detergent dispensers. Hopefully they still knew enough to properly install the machine. I was a little worried when they arrived in an open bed pickup truck with my new machine in the back, wrapped in plastic wrap but not boxed, exposed to the elements (I am in Southern California, so this is not as bad as it might have been, still, it has been raining over the past couple of days so I was surprised about the open bed delivery).

I know that many W1 owners have been very pleased with their machines, so my experience has likely been the exception.

 

[ozzie908]

@sgt10 Your little giant

Hello I had a little giant washer its absolutely bullet proof, I sold it to a friend who had a pub and it was used to wash all manner of articles they had a SQ top loader as well which sadly was prone to going wrong so the Miele picked up the slack and as far as I know 3 years later is still going. It was connected to a 20amp supply so the 2nd heater was reconnected which made the machine incredibly fast.

I have upgraded to a W1 and so far its been superb, Lets hope that you won't be disappointed with this new one..

I am in the throws of making my mind up and buy the new Miele heat pump dryer its £1300 which is a fair chunk of cash but should be worth it

 

[aamassther]

Great to hear you’ve received your replacement. I’ve had a Little Giant for 3 years now. It’s very, very versatile! I’ve you have any questions, I’m happy to answer!

 

[sgt10]

Little Giant ok with bleach??

The Little Giant seems to be doing fine. One thing I haven’t been able to figure out is the insert in the pre-wash area of the dispenser drawer, which is labeled for prewash detergent or liquid bleach. The manual does not discuss bleach, so I am not sure whether they mean chlorine bleach or hydrogen peroxide. Whichever is the case, does it seem right that bleach would work best in the prewash cycle. Usually a prewash is cold water — wouldn’t bleach work better in hotter water?

 

[launderess]

In commercial/industrial settings

Chlorine bleach is never used in pre-wash, but usually first rinse after final wash cycle (often there can be one, two, or three), then followed by a few more rinses.

Reasons are first and foremost better and clearer chlorine bleaching takes place in cleaner water. Next if chlorine bleach is being used for sanitation it does better work (with less of it), with less organic matter/soil present.

Finally chlorine bleach cycles aren't supposed to be very long. Chlorine bleach does all work it is going to do in five minutes or less after addition. Higher water temps means faster action. This covers stain removal, whitening, brightening and disinfection/sanitation. Marks that aren't removed in five minutes of contact time (even in cold water) and chlorine bleach likely will not be removed with increased contact time. All that does in promote damage to textiles by leaving them in contact with corrosive properties of bleach longer.

This being said IIRC for Miele Little Giants one is not supposed to use chlorine bleach at all. With their powerful heating capability and still able to deliver fast cycles, any good oxygen bleach would give very good results.

 

[jerrod6]

I don't like using chlorine bleach and have not used it in any front loader I have had and still, not my W1 although you can go into the settings and enable the dosing of it. I would check in your user manual for the Little Giant and see if there is anything in the settings to enable it, and explain how you use it. If not, skip using it and just use oxygen bleach if you want to whiten something.

 

[aamassther]

No provision for bleach dispensing in the Little Giant. It’s a true European machine, so not even mentioned in the manual. On the rare occasion I use it, I run what needs bleaching on a quick wash (full dose of bleach/ small amt of neutral detergent) at 30c then follow with a full load on Cottons or cottons Hygiene at a higher temp and a powder with bleach. I like to use Clorox crystals, it makes dispensing easier. I know my process is the reverse of conventional wisdom but I also use the follow up wash to neutralise the chlorine. But quite honestly, you really don’t need chlorine in this machine.

 

[sgt10]

Agree that chlorine bleach not needed

I was curious because the manual doesn’t mention bleach, but the liquid prewash insert for the detergent drawer has “heavy soil/ bleach” printed on it. I am now assuming that this means hydrogen peroxide, which would then be released into the pre-wash, begging the question of whether, from a washing efficiency perspective, the pre-wash is the ideal time for hydrogen peroxide to be added.

 

[mrboilwash]

You could put some plain tap water into the prewash dispenser next time when you`re doing a regular cotton cycle (without prewash) and see if it gets released.
I suppose the water will still be there at the end of the cycle but then again it`s not that uncommon that washers come with different programming patterns for different markets, so who knows...

Directions on German chlorine bleach bottles are usually "add to pre- or mainwash diluted in 1 liter of water". Adding bleach to the prewash is not ideal, but since the use of bleach for laundry purposes is generally considered as a very last resort before throwing clothes away and our washers don`t have room for a dedicated bleach compartment it wouldn`t surprise me if they really meant to use it in the prewash.

 

[jerrod6]

I downloaded the user manual for your machine and it has most of the cotton cycles going from 140F to 86F like the W1, but the Hygiene or sanitize program is at 203F. There is a note in the dispensing section that says not to use additional liquid bleach. They are expecting to get a detergent with bleach already in it which would work great at 203F or even 140F.

Miele powdered detergent for whites contains oxygen bleach as well as Tide with Bleach if you can find that, or Persil Universal or Persil Megaperls for whites.

It looks like a very nice machine.

 

[launderess]

Generally when European laundry market speaks of bleach they are referring to oxygen/hydrogen peroxide. Across the pond in USA OTOH word nearly universally means chlorine based products.

My AEG Lavamat washers have a compartment for "stain treatment/bleach" but they mean oxygen based products. Idea is to have enzyme based detergent have a go first, then later in cycle oxygen bleach is added so not to harm enzyme activity. There are other bits, but that is general gist.

Outside of perhaps healthcare (and not always even then), chlorine bleach is almost unknown in Europe for laundry purposes. Standard has always been boil washes with oxygen bleach. As washing machine market developed in Europe boiling moved from stove/range top to washers with built in heating ranging from solid fuels to gas and electricity. European housewives and others long recognized the destructive powers of "eau de Javel". As such it was used infrequently or not at all for laundry. Housecleaning is another matter. In France and elsewhere you find chlorine bleach not in laundry section at shops, but with cleaning supplies.

American housewives and others stopped boiling when automatic or semi automatic washing machines came in; but used copious amounts of chlorine bleach to deal with a multitude of laundry day sins.