Ideas why Miele W1 might be tripping waterproof error?

[aamassther]

Heavy soil/ bleach- Mine says that too. My guess is that the part is also used on other models. It’s just a liquid detergent insert for the prewash side. It’s a straight up traditionally functioning, European machine that’s highly customisable in the settings menu. Therefore no provisions for chlorine bleach.

 

[sgt10]

So it seems this insert should never be used for bleach

It would appear that neither chlorine bleach nor liquid hydrogen peroxide is especially suited for release in the prewash cycle. And chlorine should probably not be used in this machine at any time. It seems that if one wanted to use liquid hydrogen peroxide, there’s not an easy (correct) way to do it with this machine. Perhaps better off using a powdered product if oxygen bleaching is necessary.

 

[mrboilwash]

Doesn`t Miele have a customer service number in the US?
I mean this thread gives us more guesswork than answers because the dispenser clearly says bleach. At least they could do some research and call you back.

 

[logixx]

As far as I know, there is a bleach dispense on/off setting somewhere in the service menu - at least on the previous generation. From what I recall, it's dispensed towards the end of the main wash. Turning the setting off shortened the main wash.

As for the general usage of LCB: Miele does not encourage the use of it. Even their Professional models advice against it unless absolutely needed.

 

[bewitched]

Here in Italy peroxid hydrogen is used to desinfect small wounds. the chlorine bleach is sodium hypochlorite. Older machines had a compartment and a specific program for bleaching clothes. the bleach was added before the start of the mainwash. It is not used now as a proper washing machine usually cleans without chlorine and Miele makes no exceptions to this rule. Speaking about the leak problem, the dispenser is not made integrated to the washer. During production a piece can be defective. This certainly doesn’t mean the machine is not poorly made. I read many SQ complaints on new machines not to mention LG and Samsung that have only the advantage of being cheap and in some cases over engineered. Also Mercedes, Bmw and Volskswagen can have problems with a defective parts in their cars that show up when new. My opinion is Miele personnel in your country is not correctly trained and has few experience with sophisticated appliances.

 

[foraloysius]

I remember a toploader (a Bosch?) that had a designated dispenser for chlorine bleach. It was marked by a chlorine symbol.

 

[mrboilwash]

Actually there used to be quite a lot of washers that had chlorine bleach dispensers additionally to boil wash cycles in Europe.
A very short wash time like only ten minutes after the target temperature has been reached was not that uncommon back then in Italian and French washers so washing at 95°C may not always have been enough for proper stain removal and whitening.

There has been Thomson (see in picture #8)

http://www.lamachinealaver.ptibook.com/galerie/78

 

[mrboilwash]

Vedette (#9)

http://www.lamachinealaver.ptibook.com/galerie/83

 

[mrboilwash]

And Candy (#6)
just to name a few
Unfortunately haven`t seen the webmaster of Lamachinealaver for a long time on AW, I`m sure he could shed some light on the subject.

http://www.lamachinealaver.ptibook.com/galerie/31

 

[toploader55]

Just got caught up with this thread.

Sorry to hear of all your trouble.

I am the member in Massachusetts who has the "Dreaded" Miele 4842.

I bought it in 2012. My first issue was the detergent drawer would pop open slightly at the start of the cycle. 3 drawers later, that was fine. The dealer I bought it from had their own service tech replace them.

4 months later the Main Bearing went. The Dealer Tech told me it was because I was using Persil Powder.Nice young man but I told him there is no way detergent could have caused a bearing failure. The Young man also said it was not the bearing. I told him I have been in the restaurant business as a chef and am surrounded by all sorts of machinery and I know th sound a failed bearing makes. Now, the dealer calls Miele. Miele did send a tech up to Mass. from New Jersey. They usually send the tech to this area for a week and covers all the "difficult" issues.

This guy was wonderful. I think his name was Sheldon. First thing I did before he touched the machine was spin the tub by hand producing th "Grinding" sound a shot bearing will make. He looked rather shocked and then we began to talk. Hooked up his Laptop and went on diagnosing th problem.

First Miele wanted to pick up my machine, take it to their shop in New Jersey, repair it then ship it back.

I told them NO WAY is that machine to be repaired. I paid $1900.00 for a Washer and IT WILL BE REPLACED.

I was kind to the Tech as he agreed with me. Miele was telling him bout the pick up nonsense. I said in a loud voice while Sheldon was on the phone" Well, I will call my attorney if this machine is not replaced".

I was told a New Machine will be delivered in 4 days.

As tis was my first Front Load, I had to experience the learning curve. Alexander from Germany was kind enough to send me the Service Manual and proceeded to go into Programmig and add "Water Plus" plus week a few things.

I hope this is not the Kiss of Death, but the Machine has served me well. I never overload it and also never use Maximum Spin. I use High. I just feel this is fast enough and saves a bit on the bearing. Just my thought.

Use Persil Universal Powder or Rosalie's. Bleach occasionally nd a touch of White Vinegar once a week.

I never ever had any odors or moldy boot issues. I attribute it to Never washing in cold water and liquid detergents or Fabric Softener. Washes are either Hot, Very Warm or Warm.

So back to the thread (Sorry about the ramble). I am Happy they replaced your machine. The Service can get one a bit "Heated" when dealing with them on the phone.

Enjoy your machine and hope this one is "Immer Besser"

 

[aamassther]

So it seems this insert should never be used for bleach

It would appear that neither chlorine bleach nor liquid hydrogen peroxide is especially suited for release in the prewash cycle. And chlorine should probably not be used in this machine at any time. It seems that if one wanted to use liquid hydrogen peroxide, there’s not an easy (correct) way to do it with this machine. Perhaps better off using a powdered product if oxygen bleaching is necessary.

While I’ve not used H2O2 in the prewash, you certainly can. I often do a prewash with just ammonia followed by a very hot main wash with Miele ultrawhite, you could do the same with H2O2. While you can do the same with chlorine, I prefer not to. I like it rinsed before the main wash. One easy way to mix powder and liquid supplies in one load is to put powder in the drawer and the liquid in a dosing ball, mine’s silicone.
There is no provision for turning bleach on or off in the menus- bleach is not discussed in the manual either. Full stop. My dispenser has the same thing on it. If you want to use bleach you’re left to figure it out on your own. That’s why I do it in a quick wash prior to the main cycle, and only very occasionally. I much prefer regular use of oxygen bleaches to maintain white.

 

[launderess]

Hydrogen peroxide will do next to nothing in a pre-wash cycle.

There is too much organic matter present on laundry for the stuff to even make a dent in germ count. Then fact cycle is short and uses cool water means whatever other benefits (stain removal, whitening, etc....) would be limited to nil.

You shouldn't wash in dirty water, nor bleach if possible.

Ammonia OTOH is nothing but an alkaline gas dissolved in water. It is the pH properties one is after thus adding that substance as a "break" is no different than using washing soda, sodium metasilicate, lye, caustic soda, or any of the other base substances used to raise pH of water. What you're basically doing is creating a saponifying reaction by base combining with fats/oils (found on laundry), to "break" the soil away from textiles.

 

[jerrod6]

The W1 is the machine that has the setting for chlorine bleach. Since I don't use chlorine bleach I have never turned it on. If you use it, it is poured into the prewash cup and is dispensed a few minutes before the wash completes. If you have the setting enabled you cannot do a prewash.

As delivered the setting is off and you have to enable it in the settings if you want to use it. There is really no need to do so with the machine since it mixes I think,10% hydrogen peroxide in with the detergent while it is washing.

 

[sgt10]

Postscript on washer replacement by Miele

As of Dec 16, I have finally reached (for now) the end of my Miele repair journey. What I haven't shared yet is just how difficult it was to get a successful install of the new replacement washer. The installation team retained by Miele was sloppy and uninformed. During their installation, they managed to kick loose the dryer vent from the dryer. After they left and I did my first load of laundry and loaded it into the dryer, I realized that the dryer was venting in the room, not outside. I also realized that I could not fix this myself. The washer and dryer sit in a drain pan and are under a heavy (removable) shelf. I managed to maneuver a camera in place to confirm the problem, but other than that, I was out of luck. I simply could not move the washer out of the way myself to reattach the vent. So I had to contact Miele quality assurance again and tell them the problem. It took TWO more repair visits and two more days off work and another week of doing laundry off site to correct their sloppy and careless install. I am pleased that all is working now, but extremely frustrated that it took so much of my time and money to get to a stable situation for a problem with an 11 month old Miele washer.

Lessons learned? I'm not sure. I now know that Miele's service network leaves much to be desired, and that the installation options for a Miele are terrible too. What would be better? It depends on what one means by better. If by better one means a machine that will not break, then perhaps one wants what some suggested above, a Speed Queen. If by better, one means a machine that offers equivalent washing performance AND does not break or can be easily repaired if it does break, then I am stumped.

Just for fun, here's a photo of how the Miele-hired installer delivered the new Little Giant...in an open bed pick-up truck, unsecured by any restraints to keep it from moving around.

 

[jerrod6]

I think Miele in the California location you live in needs better training. I have never had a Miele product delivered in an open truck like that. My W1 came in a covered truck and in a box and the installers had to open that first before getting to it.

If these are the authorized installers I would share this picture with Miele in NJ. Better yet, send a letter to the headquarters in Germany. Completely unacceptable - the service you have received.

How is the new washer performing?

 

[launderess]

As Have Said....

Miele has struggled with recruiting and retaining service/installation techs, but then again so have many other appliance places. Miele's woes are greater because of obstacles needing to be overcome by their pretty much having been a niche east coast brand.

IIRC in past they had hired out installation and service for parts of California, and results were mixed to bad. So Miele brought things back in house, now it seems they're all over the place.

Believe Miele closed their California tech/call center and moved things out to Utah. This could have been in reaction to various issues from wages to talent or whatever.

Miele unlike say Kenmore or other well known USA appliance giants doesn't have luxury of a decades old nationwide tech/repair force. Even though Sears long has since sliced repair/service away, it still was in a better position than Miele.

Then you have fact so much about Miele appliances is proprietary; parts, service manuals, etc.. at least in North America. In EU one can buy Miele spares "off the shelf" as it were any where. Now one can hunt down specific Miele repair manuals but there isn't any promise you'll find exact one needed.

All this being said, welcome to the new economy. No one wants to keep service techs, installers, etc... on payrolls; so everything is either outsourced or done on contract. As myself and others have stated; if you live in northeast, in particular PA, NJ, NY, Conn, Boston, etc.... Miele service, sales and installation is slightly better thanks to home court advantage. Further west or whatever one goes things become a dice shoot.

Cannot imagine paying nearly two grand for a washing machine, and far more for new heat pump dryer only to have thing break down. Kicker is having to do without said appliance for one, two, three or more weeks.

 

[sgt10]

Jerrod- I actually did send the pickup truck photo to the Quality Assurance department of Miele USA , and described the shoddy delivery process as well. My Miele contact agreed that the delivery was not all he had hoped for, but vague regret was about all he offered. The delivery team were in fact Miele authorized installers. They told me they have Miele “training” once per year.

And the Laundress is right. California was one of the last places that Miele maintained its Miele Concierge service, where they handled all installations (including those sold from local retailers) in house. Jan 1, 2019, they dismantled this network and made individual retail outlets responsible for installations. Miele still has their red Miele trucks, but these are for repairs, not installations. And the Miele dispatchers for their repair calls do seem to be located in Utah, at least that’s what they said when I called to complain about the long wait time.

Given these inadequacies, it would seem that Miele is destined to be a niche product here, and they don’t appear to care much. Architects are pleased to specify them as they fit small spaces (and under counters), and meet some perceived upscale hurdle, and those of us who appreciate good washing performance (and cross our fingers that nothing will go wrong with the machine) may also purchase them, but they clearly have many drawbacks, some of which only become crystal clear after purchase.

If my Miele T9820 gas dryer quits, I would not even consider a Miele dryer. I would rather replace it with another gas dryer. I do feel a bit like I am living on borrowed time with the dryer. After all, it was the death of my matching W4840 washer which led last December to my purchase of the Miele W1, whichl leaked and was replaced. . And almost every time a Miele tech came to try to “repair” the W1, they looked at the dryer and commented ominously that they couldn’t get many replacement parts for the dryer any more.

 

[launderess]

You cannot get another Miele gas dryer "new" as it was; since after the fiasco of that huge dryer (that matched 48XX washers), Miele no longer offers them in North America for residential use. Not sure about commercial laundry appliances.

For awhile it was only electric condenser (non vented), now Miele also offers heat pump dryers as well (electric), but that is all.

IIRC Miele had never built a gas dryer for domestic use previously, and had all sorts of problems with that large unit. Hence they threw in towel on both washer and dryer withdrawing both from market.

 

[foraloysius]

As a matter of fact Miele has built a gas dryer for the European market, the T478G. It was their first and last attempt to sell gas dryers here, there is only a niche market for them here. A lot of people on the European continent have their washer and dryer in a bathroom. People are reluctant to install gas appliances in bathrooms due to a high number of deaths caused by carbon monoxide from water heaters that were installed in bathrooms. Here's a picture of a G478G that is for sale near me. It doesn't sell even though the price is only 50 euros.

 

[sgt10]

And forgot to mention

Jerrod- In answer to your question, the new Little Giant is performing well, certainly up to expectations. And while I had gotten used to the TwinDos dispensing of the W1 (useful to me only after Miele started selling the Sensitive version of TwinDos), I do find the greater ability to customize cycles appealing. (I can specify up to 5! rinses on Cottons, and add a pre-wash and even a pre-rinse in the same cycle if I want. I do like being able to do both prewash and extra rinse at the same time, which I couldn’t do in the W1. Each machine has its quirks. The W1 has a soak cycle, but not the Little Giant (a cycle which seems to come and go in Miele machines. My older Miele 1100 would allow for a soak, but no extra rinse). The W1 also has a hand wash cycle, and the Little Giant doesn’t (but the Little Giant does have both a silks and a woolens cycle, which I think come very close to the hand wash cycle). And then the Little Giant has some specialty cycles which can be useful (like a Sluice cycle which is good for rags: it adds two pre-rinses before the wash cycle to get rid of debris).