IFA 2025

[henene4]

Have not had the motivation or luck to look for much in advance, so just relied on press releases so far.
Official start is Friday, with most press events scheduled for tomorrow.


Miele has quietly changed their DW lineup. Even the cheapest model is now class A efficiency with upper end models going as low as A-10%.
Further, they will launch extra wide built in fridge freezers - which with all likelihood come from BSH.
They'll show off a new cooktop which moves a lot of hardware to the pots and pans with sensors and such. Sounds honestly stupid to me.
But, on the other hand, they'll show off a drawer style steamer. Instead of having a full size steam oven, you get just steaming in the space of a warming drawer. Sounds pretty great and useful actually.


LG will launch a new range of very high efficiency cooling appliances - currently as low as A-20%, with A-40% to follow next year. Even the typically less efficient french door models will come in A now.
They'll futther launch new washers and dryers as well as new heat pump washer dryer combo. The current pictures aren't particularly well labelled - but the combo *might* no longer be a Centum style machine, eliminating many issue these combos had before with items makeing their way into the sump.


ELux will launch a completely overhauled DW platform with noise ratings as low as 35dB in silence mode, or 37dB in regular mode. They claim improved load sensing and thus reduced usage overall with the new Eco cycle going as low as 8,4l and/or A-10%.
Honestly needed - their DWs have been pretty terrible in many regards in the past few years, even scoring pretty low in StiWa here in Germany.

 

[phillymatt53]

Have not had the motivation or luck to look for much in advance, so just relied on press releases so far.
Official start is Friday, with most press events scheduled for tomorrow.


Miele has quietly changed their DW lineup. Even the cheapest model is now class A efficiency with upper end models going as low as A-10%.
Further, they will launch extra wide built in fridge freezers - which with all likelihood come from BSH.
They'll show off a new cooktop which moves a lot of hardware to the pots and pans with sensors and such. Sounds honestly stupid to me.
But, on the other hand, they'll show off a drawer style steamer. Instead of having a full size steam oven, you get just steaming in the space of a warming drawer. Sounds pretty great and useful actually.


LG will launch a new range of very high efficiency cooling appliances - currently as low as A-20%, with A-40% to follow next year. Even the typically less efficient french door models will come in A now.
They'll futther launch new washers and dryers as well as new heat pump washer dryer combo. The current pictures aren't particularly well labelled - but the combo *might* no longer be a Centum style machine, eliminating many issue these combos had before with items makeing their way into the sump.


ELux will launch a completely overhauled DW platform with noise ratings as low as 35dB in silence mode, or 37dB in regular mode. They claim improved load sensing and thus reduced usage overall with the new Eco cycle going as low as 8,4l and/or A-10%.
Honestly needed - their DWs have been pretty terrible in many regards in the past few years, even scoring pretty low in StiWa here in Germany.

With all the global greed and corruption going on, I refuse to be convinced as to "claims" on products.
Just because "they say" it, doesn't mean it's true.
Call me a skeptic, I don't care.

 

[logixx]

The AEG/Electrolux dishwashers sound like they might reuse rinse water for the next pre-wash. The press release kinda gave me that impression.

The BSH dryers rely on, as you predicted, higher airflow to bump the energy efficiency to A. But now that viewing window has gotten as small as the one in Gorenje dryers. I was surprised to see robo vacs (again) from Bosch... but Ecovacs largely makes them for Bosch, it seems. I wonder who makes the Bosch air fryers?

Haven't looked into LG or Samsung yet.

Miele doesn't seem to have a whole lot to show this year. Steamer drawer (which coincidentally was also launched from BSH) and the new "smart" cookware. Yeah, I don't know if I need sensors and a control panel on my cookware...

I would assume Haier showcases their large combo?

 

[henene4]

Those new BSH dryers are kinda interesting.
They even removed the acess panels on the front completely...
And they FINALLY added speed control to their inverter motors on dryers. They had fixes speed inverters for a decade for really no apparent reason.
I do think - even though the viewing window is kinda small now - that solution is going to be better than Eluxs in terms of items getting stuck in the filter area.

AEG had water reusage for their DWs for the longest I'd guess. And going from 11l to 8,4l sounds like just about what those water pockets often hold.
So you might be right...


It's really interesting though that BSHs steamer drawer looks like it's completely independently designed - the 'layout' looks completely different from Mieles offering ...

 

[logixx]

Oh, the new dryers are going to be 57dB and 95% condensation efficiency.

 

[logixx]

I just should have went in their websites, as the models are already on there...

Seems like the design is very similar to what AEG have done.

 

[henene4]

Those dryers are slow... But they are quieter than the ELux offerings.
Nice to see, that there still is a flap you can vut out for cleaning the condenser in case if service - just unfortunate you'll have to remove the complete front for that.
The air path in the back is pretty interesting - keen to see how they manage driving the fan (belt placement and replacement etc.).

AEGs DWs are online as well.
No parts diagram so far, but there is no mention of the typical periodic water storage tank disinfection cycle from what I gather that would be typical for a water reuse design.
But there isn't really a mention of anything that would attack the big drawback of these DWs which is drying performance. But that might just be solved by cycle optimisation...

 

[logixx]

The press conference that was just streamed didn't go into much detail.

For the dishwasher presentation, they went back to the 90s where they resigned their dishwasher platform to make it more efficient and quieter (at 45dB). Continuing to highlight the N.E.W. aspect of their 9000 range (noise, efficiency, water savings) that's pretty much all we got. No further detail on how it's done. They made pizza in their new oven and had a video of their new robo vacuum (with very standard features).

 

[henene4]

8,4l isn't unheard of either - but it's not to far off BSH who do a more comparable Eco cycle profile than let's say Miele.

Haier has their heat pump washer dryer on the German website as well - but the compact one, not the big one.
Their first IFA press statement says something about "the heat pump also applied to washing for excellent results and maximum energy saving" which sounds a lot like they found a way around the VZug patent.
But for what ever reason, they had their press conference a month ago?!?
But with their brands, their appearance online is a bit more scattered anyway...

Samsung appears to have a more or less only AI focused appearance?
A voice activated door on a fridge (and DW and on the large washer dryer)... Wow...

 

[foraloysius]

There’s no 9000 freestanding model more on the German website, which means there’s no freestanding model anymore with Comfortlift. The Comfortlift would be the only reason to buy an AEG dishwasher.

 

[henene4]

The series naming has/will change - there are 9000 series DW without ComfortLift now.

And I don't think there ever was a freestanding ComfortLift DW? At least here in Germany there wasn't...


My oldest brother has an IKEA branded ELux machine that's going on to 15 years now. Only thing he had to replace was the pressure switch at some point.
If they improve the drying, getting an adequately priced DW that's as quiet as my fridge would be a pretty good reason to go with ELux in my opinion...

 

[foraloysius]

I’m sorry, I should have checked the Dutch website. There still is a freestanding 9000 model with Comfortlift on the website. But there is a note it’s not available.

https://www.aeg.nl/kitchen/dishwashing/dishwashers/dishwasher-60-cm/ffb83816pm/

 

[henene4]

I just skipped through the Haier press conference from yesterday.
They show a picture with the large combo - but haven't caught them explicitly announcing it.

What they showed of is a camera in the washer.
Honestly thought about that myself and I think that's one of the things where visual recognition might make a lot of sense.
The washer can check laundry color, laundry volume and stuff like suds residues. Means it can finally perfectly assess the type of fabric: Weight, absorbency and volume when wet and dry in relation to each other should be enough to actually nail down what the fabric is.
It's certainly not necessary - but far from the worst idea.



They also explicitly announced the 3-drum machine under the Candy brand.
Still think it looks horrible, but it is unique thing for sure.

 

[logixx]

Thanks for the link, that was interesting.

I see the usual suspects Roborock/Dreame/Mova releasing more floor care. At this point, I feel like they are just dumping products on the market and no one is able to really tell the differences between the models any more. Stair-climbing is the new thing. Dreame will eventually also release major appliances.

I saw a promo video of the BSH dryers and it depicted the heat exchanger being flushed twice: left side, then right side.

Looking forward to Midea. Maybe a PortaSplit 2?

 

[pstehle]

I just skipped through the Haier press conference from yesterday.
They show a picture with the large combo - but haven't caught them explicitly announcing it.

What they showed of is a camera in the washer.
Honestly thought about that myself and I think that's one of the things where visual recognition might make a lot of sense.
The washer can check laundry color, laundry volume and stuff like suds residues. Means it can finally perfectly assess the type of fabric: Weight, absorbency and volume when wet and dry in relation to each other should be enough to actually nail down what the fabric is.
It's certainly not necessary - but far from the worst idea.



They also explicitly announced the 3-drum machine under the Candy brand.
Still think it looks horrible, but it is unique thing for sure.

ok, that'll work maybe 3 cycles before the lens gets crudded up with soap and you get a fault code!

 

[henene4]

I mean... Does your door glas become more than 25% intransparent after 3 cycles?

 

[l86810]

Looks like a new range from Gorenje, "SimpliCare", with an internal fresh air fan and a vent on the front of the cabinet.
Also, includes a ShoeWash, which uses an internal rack. They're nice-looking machines.

Dryers have a 38°C gentle cycle and what sounds like infrared sensing (similar to AEGs) and possibly a separate motor for the fan, enabling true reverse tumbling.

Press link is here... https://ifa2025.hisense-europe.com/...360-degree care for your laundry_popravek.pdf

LG is interesting... the VX models (with the central control dial & screen) are out of stock in the UK across almost all retailers. The few left are discounted. So, assuming the new models are about to land. However, press releases do not mention any actual changes in the new line-up. So, I'm unsure whether it's worth grabbing one of the currently discounted models or waiting.

 

[henene4]

I am not 100% shure if I'm just missing something, but I don't think the press release you linked actually mentiones a separate fan motor for the dryer. The "tangle free" system they mention could just be their TwinAir system, which wasn't a separate fan motor either.
But I have the faint hope BSHs new dryers have a separate fan motor as well - so maybe?

AEGs 3D scanning actually (as far as I understand) isn't infrared, it's capacitive.
Their websites actually states what system which dryer uses - at least here in Germany.
"Kapazitive" means capacitive, "Leitwertmessung" means conductivity sensing.
Either way, Gorenjes dryers were OK at sensing already - but if they took that step forward I don't see that being anything bad.

 

[l86810]

Oh yeah, you're right. I'd forgotten about their TwinAir system. Saw the update and the trend of other announcements of true reverse technology, and just put two and two together.

AEG is a surprise, though. You're probably right, but I was sure that was infrared.
Do they use infrared in Haiers Ultra Sense? I know when it was launched the year before, in their sub-brand Casarte, it was confirmed as such.

 

[henene4]

The current TOL Haier dryer I know of is the one with the seperate fan - and that one does not according to the service manual.
Only one moisture sensor mentioned, and it does have conductivity sensing strips.

 

[henene4]

Midea now explicitly mentioned a US size heat pump washer dryer.
Why or how on earth Midea goes live with such an announcement and Haier has not for the EU is beyond me - but that machine does not look like something we have seen before?

So, Samsung was the third to launch theirs in total, but the first to the EU.
Haier was the second to bring theirs to the EU - but so far only on paper.
LG does not appear to have even thought about doing that at all.
And now Midea has such a machine?
That market strategy just is so odd in that field...

 

[logixx]

I've briefly seen it mentioned here.

 

[henene4]

The new LG compact HP combo apparently no longer is based on the Centum design.
Given it was pretty much the last Centum model model, that's not surprising.



If the time stamp didn't work, skip to 2:44.



Small Eulogy to the Centum system:
Really interesting - completely unnecessary nowadays and pretty inefficient.
Basically, the idea was to have the drum moving inside the tub, with it being directly suspended.
Apparently allowed for more space efficient design allowing for what I think the first 80+ liter drums in a standard cabinet size.
It was particularly useful in the HP combo as any components for the drying could be mounted directly to the tub as the tub is stationary.

Downside was that the space between drum and tub was larger, meaning especially with smaller loads the machine could sometimes use SIGNIFICANT amounts of water to get any water level in the drum.
And if any component of the suspension goes bad (any of the half-dozen damper-components or the balancing rings on the drum) repairs could be complicated.

A novel and for the time useful idea - now LG has 80l class drums in similar size machines with just some clever suspension magic and a vibration sensor.

 

[logixx]

Not a whole lot to see but a little insight into the set-up.

 

[henene4]

But I think you just might have shown me enough.

2 clues:
On the exploded view at 0:19, you see a hint of coils (like the stator of a direct drive motor) on the very back air path.
Second is that there is just a tiny hole behind the motor backing.



This could be just how the animation is designed, but - and that's a HUGE but - this MIGHT just be another thing pointing to what I was hoping for:
This might be a dual motor dryer design.
From a German brand.
Let's hope. I would be stoked

 

[johnb300m]

With all the global greed and corruption going on, I refuse to be convinced as to "claims" on products.
Just because "they say" it, doesn't mean it's true.
Call me a skeptic, I don't care.

 

[washerfinatic2]

https://www.appliancecity.co.uk/lau...9kg-series-8-heat-pump-condenser-dryer-white/

https://www.appliancecity.co.uk/lau...b-9kg-iq-700-heat-pump-condenser-dryer-white/

13% reduction compared to A+++ -10% model so would guess that’s now -25% to compete with AEG. Same drying time 265min but 1db louder at 59db than mine - quite impressive if the airflow has been increased dramatically.

Would be interesting to see how cool it now is, considering mine barely hits 50c on a normal cycle.

Also nice to see the all metal front now that the plastic section with cooling fan is gone.

 

[henene4]

The complete parts for the new BSH dryer platform is online - and it is a dual motor design.

So you get an A class tumble dryer with dual motors for cheaper than Haiers design - that's actually made in Germany?
It's almost like things got great again.

 

[logixx]

Damn, I was JUST about to post this here.

Seems it's also rinsing both the evaporator and the condenser.

 

[henene4]

Just had a minute to look at the diagram a bit more.

The pump is now at the left front, so access for clean out should be as easy as removal of the side panel - which is a bit more hassle than currently, but still simple enough to do every few years.
The pump appears to go to a valve that appears to allow 3 paths.
One is "drain" (either to the tank or direct drain), 2 are for flushing the heat exchanger.
Curiously, the drawings show that while it is split in 2 halves (left and right), the distributor plate at the top of the heat exchanger appears to channel water in a way that it will ALWAYS flush both condenser and evaporator.
They used to have a system flushing both for the (now defunct) design that had automatic lint filter cleaning that would run periodically.

This now flushes everything every cycle with pump pressure.
Interesting - the valve is an additional failure point and in theory the diverter paths could clogg over time, leading to a more involved repair (you'd have to remove the drum to access that).
But I think over all this might still have a slight edge over the gravity flush system.