I just saw this on Walmart's web site. Looked on Tide's web page and it still has the old box image. Appears to be adding more "bleaching" ingredients to encourage more to wash in cold water (ick)
"Improved" Tide with Bleach alternative powder
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Original Tide Powder
I always use original Tide powder. As long as they keep that formula I’ll be happy.
-Shannon
I always use original Tide powder. As long as they keep that formula I’ll be happy.
-Shannon
Why don't you list the ingredients or are they not listed on the website or P&G's?
Tom, as stated, this new formula isn't even on Tide's web site yet.
launderess
Well-known member
Likely P&G has increased ratio of sodium percarbonate and NBOS (bleach activator) to give TwB more ooph.
P&G has long since done this for versions of Ariel powder detergent sold in EU (under various names). Those "professional" and "antibacterial" versions contain a higher oxygen bleach to activator ratio than Tide.
Ariel Professional:
https://dgduupz79pcvd.cloudfront.net/documents/fusion/fus392065msds.pdf
Regarding cold water and oxygen bleaching.
There's cold water, and there's "cold" water. Long as we're discussing cold water as say 86 degrees F to about 90 degrees F, activated oxygen bleaching systems can work rather well. Sodium percarbonate will bleach very well at lower temperatures, but exposure time might need to be increased.
In Japan cold water dominates for laundry, including whites. Yet in keeping with one of the cleanest cultures on earth, whites are often brilliant and colors quite bright.
Japanese powder detergents long ago adopted oxygen bleach and activators. Like USA NBOS is favored over TAED. This likely has something to do with like North America Japan initially favored top loading washing machines. They may have had impellers instead of central beaters, but never the less.
Ratio of oxygen bleach to activator is constant. This is because basically you're created a new chemical (peracetic acid).
Peracetic acid is a far more powerful bleach than hydrogen peroxide, but is very unstable. When bleaching activator and oxygen bleach (sodium percarbonate or perborate) are combined in water both are used up to create finite amount of peracetic acid. Thus merely adding more of one but not the other won't do much.
This means adding additional sodium percarbonate or sodium perborate neat to a detergent that already has a bleaching activator and bleach won't do much.
P&G has long since done this for versions of Ariel powder detergent sold in EU (under various names). Those "professional" and "antibacterial" versions contain a higher oxygen bleach to activator ratio than Tide.
Ariel Professional:
https://dgduupz79pcvd.cloudfront.net/documents/fusion/fus392065msds.pdf
Regarding cold water and oxygen bleaching.
There's cold water, and there's "cold" water. Long as we're discussing cold water as say 86 degrees F to about 90 degrees F, activated oxygen bleaching systems can work rather well. Sodium percarbonate will bleach very well at lower temperatures, but exposure time might need to be increased.
In Japan cold water dominates for laundry, including whites. Yet in keeping with one of the cleanest cultures on earth, whites are often brilliant and colors quite bright.
Japanese powder detergents long ago adopted oxygen bleach and activators. Like USA NBOS is favored over TAED. This likely has something to do with like North America Japan initially favored top loading washing machines. They may have had impellers instead of central beaters, but never the less.
Ratio of oxygen bleach to activator is constant. This is because basically you're created a new chemical (peracetic acid).
Peracetic acid is a far more powerful bleach than hydrogen peroxide, but is very unstable. When bleaching activator and oxygen bleach (sodium percarbonate or perborate) are combined in water both are used up to create finite amount of peracetic acid. Thus merely adding more of one but not the other won't do much.
This means adding additional sodium percarbonate or sodium perborate neat to a detergent that already has a bleaching activator and bleach won't do much.
It wouldn`t surprise me if P&G had silently downgraded the formula of Tide with Bleach some time ago to make more profit for a while and for the sake of coming up with a new and improved formula which then can be aggressively advertised again.
They do it all the time and usually they do it in wise intervals in accordance with expected consumer tests.
For instance the German FS Lenor had always had 5-15% cationic surfactants as the active softening ingredient listed on the bottle.
Since a couple of weeks all the perfumy versions are <5% and the basic versions stayed the same.
In a year or so they will ramp it up again and advertise it as "softer than ever before" or "now with 50% more softness".
They do it all the time and usually they do it in wise intervals in accordance with expected consumer tests.
For instance the German FS Lenor had always had 5-15% cationic surfactants as the active softening ingredient listed on the bottle.
Since a couple of weeks all the perfumy versions are <5% and the basic versions stayed the same.
In a year or so they will ramp it up again and advertise it as "softer than ever before" or "now with 50% more softness".
launderess
Well-known member
Am actually rather shocked P&G is doing anything at all for TWB powder detergent.
In general one has to look quite hard and far to find powdered detergents from any brand in shops. Online things are a bit easier but since one detests Amazon with heat of many suns, that is out.
Shelves of P&G detergent offerings on this side of pond long have been dominated by liquid and now those pod offerings.
In general one has to look quite hard and far to find powdered detergents from any brand in shops. Online things are a bit easier but since one detests Amazon with heat of many suns, that is out.
Shelves of P&G detergent offerings on this side of pond long have been dominated by liquid and now those pod offerings.
lakewebsterkid
Well-known member
Frightening
This is slightly scary considering the damage P$G has done the last few years to their lineup. If the scent is decent and the formula is in fact improved, it will be welcome. However as others have stated, I’m not going to be shocked if it leaves a lot to be desired for their sake of profit margins. With that said, I will gladly try a box when I find one.
As Laundress stated, both oxygenated bleach and activator have to be increased at the same amount. That is would be a welcome boost.
This is slightly scary considering the damage P$G has done the last few years to their lineup. If the scent is decent and the formula is in fact improved, it will be welcome. However as others have stated, I’m not going to be shocked if it leaves a lot to be desired for their sake of profit margins. With that said, I will gladly try a box when I find one.
As Laundress stated, both oxygenated bleach and activator have to be increased at the same amount. That is would be a welcome boost.
Notice the asterisk and the fine print,
*Vs Tide Original Powder. Sounds like just marketing to me. I would imagine this is the same formula as usual with bold new marketing to make you think it's a new formula when in fact it is a comparison to regular Tide.
Geoff
*Vs Tide Original Powder. Sounds like just marketing to me. I would imagine this is the same formula as usual with bold new marketing to make you think it's a new formula when in fact it is a comparison to regular Tide.
Geoff
angus
Well-known member
Hope they have changed the fragrance. I used to use TWB powder for years, but the latest fragrance, even with careful dosing and rinsing just leaves an unpleasant scent in the finished laundry (I realize this is a clearly personal matter).
launderess
Well-known member
"*Vs Tide Original Powder. Sounds like just marketing to me."
Likely because marketing is just what it is....
Tide "original" powder in the orange boxes is not same as TWB or now called Tide Plus Bleach.
We shall have to wait for SDS and other information on this new Tide powder. Then can compare against TWB/TPB and or regular original Tide powder.
Likely because marketing is just what it is....
Tide "original" powder in the orange boxes is not same as TWB or now called Tide Plus Bleach.
We shall have to wait for SDS and other information on this new Tide powder. Then can compare against TWB/TPB and or regular original Tide powder.
Hi Geoff . Do you still have your KA washer .
launderess
Well-known member
Maddening Thing About This Version of TWB
Is as with so many other P&G offerings one can only purchase from certain vendors.
Walmart and Target have this new version of TWB (at least online), but Amazon does not apparently (go figure).
Many local shops or supermarkets that do have Tide powdered detergent only have previous version, not this new one.
It's same with so many other brans from P&G such as Downy; one has to hunt down what is wanted across various vendors.
Is as with so many other P&G offerings one can only purchase from certain vendors.
Walmart and Target have this new version of TWB (at least online), but Amazon does not apparently (go figure).
Many local shops or supermarkets that do have Tide powdered detergent only have previous version, not this new one.
It's same with so many other brans from P&G such as Downy; one has to hunt down what is wanted across various vendors.
Laundress
That's true. For example I cannot seem to find some Persil liquids anywhere yet they are on the Persil (Canada) website. I did contact them and got the response to mention it to my local store managers. Right on it LOL As it is right now in every grocery store in town I've checked, from small ones to superstore sized, there might be 2 versions of Persil taking up no more that a foots width on two shelves while there are 3 shelves at least 20 feet long full of Tides and their lesser products. If I was a betting man, actually I am, I could see Persil disappearing from the Canadian market over the next few years if not sooner.
That's true. For example I cannot seem to find some Persil liquids anywhere yet they are on the Persil (Canada) website. I did contact them and got the response to mention it to my local store managers. Right on it LOL As it is right now in every grocery store in town I've checked, from small ones to superstore sized, there might be 2 versions of Persil taking up no more that a foots width on two shelves while there are 3 shelves at least 20 feet long full of Tides and their lesser products. If I was a betting man, actually I am, I could see Persil disappearing from the Canadian market over the next few years if not sooner.
launderess
Well-known member
Tide Coldwater "Free and Clean" is available up north, but not in USA.
https://tide.ca/en-ca/shop/type/liquid/coldwater-clean-free-he-liquid
https://tide.ca/en-ca/shop/type/liquid/coldwater-clean-free-he-liquid
I was just wondering, does anyone use the Tide Free & Gentle on a fairly regular basis? I was thinking about switching to it permanently. Had recently washed a load of soiled, stained linens in regular Tide (had been using a lower shelf detergent) and could not believe how clean and fresh the clothes came out. It was the difference of night and day. I was amazed. I have sensitive skin and have to be careful with P&G detergents after a bad, frightening experience with Gain. I also don’t want to breathe fumes from “scents,” don’t think that is healthy for me. Also does it fade dark colors?
Just asking.
I appreciate any responses.
Barry
Just asking.
I appreciate any responses.
Barry
Barry, I use Tide F&G. I've tried all their unscented varieties and the Ultra Stain Release (USR) free version only available at Target is by far the best version to get. The regular F&G version is great too but if you want the best cleaning, try the USR. I also really like their F&G powder. I use that regularly as well. I've had no issues with fading.
launderess
Well-known member
Have been using Tide Free and Gentle since it arrived on shelves; quite fancy it!
Add some oxygen bleach of various sorts when required and you can't fail can you?
Add some oxygen bleach of various sorts when required and you can't fail can you?
Thank you Laundress. I was so impressed, I’m willing to pay more. The difference in cleanliness was quite noticeable, even linens that I thought were clean to begin with. There was no dinginess to them.
After I use my stash up, I’m switching over.
David, I will keep a sharp eye out for the F&G Stain Release. Thank you for mentioning the fading.
Again, thank you guys!
Barry
After I use my stash up, I’m switching over.
David, I will keep a sharp eye out for the F&G Stain Release. Thank you for mentioning the fading.
Again, thank you guys!
Barry
angus
Well-known member
I use both the powder F&G and liquid Ultra Stain release versions for my sister's laundry as she is way too sensitive to scents, etc... Also, I use the liquid Ultra Stain release for spot treating since I use a few different products for my own general laundry and don't want to have to have competing fragrances. Mind you I am not a fan of the overly heavy fragrances and "12 weeks of freshness" nonsense- but I do like some fragrance. Anyway, I digress - the F&G formula in both powder and liquid Ultra Stain release perform very well on both soil and stains as well as general brightening (with the liquid leading the pack). Here in Connecticut, the powder F&G is only available at WalMart and as mentioned earlier, only Target carries the F&G Ultra Stain release liquid. So being the good little detergent hoarder that I am, just stock up whenever I am in either store. Most of our supermarkets no longer carry any powders other than Tide original - everything else is pod or liquid (mostly Tide, Gain and some All products along with Arm & Hammer and Xtra). And I have noticed that supermarkets that carry Persil are few and far between.
Has anyone
Tried this new Tide?
Plain Tide original scent is o.k (it doesn’t leave much)
I’m wondering if this has some horrid scent added that will leave one?
Tried this new Tide?
Plain Tide original scent is o.k (it doesn’t leave much)
I’m wondering if this has some horrid scent added that will leave one?
angus
Well-known member
If you mean the new Tide with Bleach powder (TWB) shown in the first posting here, yes, I have started using it for most of my laundry. I think this fragrance is the third iteration of scents with TWB. The first and original was around from its inception in the late 80's up to around 5 years ago - that one was really the best one. Then it changed to something really awful and I stopped using it - even careful dosing would leave a heavy unpleasant scent on the clothes - whether line or machine dried. Then this new version with its new packaging was introduced two or so years ago (don't recall the exact timing). Scent is not nearly as strong and with careful dosing any remaining scent is fairly faint and not objectionable. So I have gone back, since I like powders and have exhausted my stash of US Persil powder which no longer exists. The TWB powder still does a great job.
Thanks Angus
I may give it a try
I may give it a try
Just happed to
look at my box of Tide original and noticed “sodium carbonate peroxide” and Bleach activator TAED.
So plain old Tide has some kind of bleaching action to it, otherwise why would it contain the TAED?
look at my box of Tide original and noticed “sodium carbonate peroxide” and Bleach activator TAED.
So plain old Tide has some kind of bleaching action to it, otherwise why would it contain the TAED?
launderess
Well-known member
How interesting that P&G has switched to TAED bleach activator.
P&G poured tons of R&D into developing activated bleaching systems based upon sodium nonanoyloxybenzenesulfonate. NOBS is particularly suited to lower water temperatures and higher dilution washing historically found in USA laundering. This because obviously Americans historically used top loading washing machines with central beaters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_nonanoyloxybenzenesulfonate
https://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/10/business/technology-laboring-in-the-green-laundry-lab.html
Stan's box of Tide states it uses TAED plus sodium percarbonate as activated bleaching system. TAED long has been popular in Europe and American products for laundry and dishwasher that wanted an activated bleaching system but needed to get around P&G having patents for NOBS systems sewn up.
Late as 2015 TWB contained NOBS:
https://content.oppictures.com/Master_Images/Master_PDF_Files/pgc84998ct_sds.pdf
So why the switch? Will have to investigate.
P&G poured tons of R&D into developing activated bleaching systems based upon sodium nonanoyloxybenzenesulfonate. NOBS is particularly suited to lower water temperatures and higher dilution washing historically found in USA laundering. This because obviously Americans historically used top loading washing machines with central beaters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_nonanoyloxybenzenesulfonate
https://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/10/business/technology-laboring-in-the-green-laundry-lab.html
Stan's box of Tide states it uses TAED plus sodium percarbonate as activated bleaching system. TAED long has been popular in Europe and American products for laundry and dishwasher that wanted an activated bleaching system but needed to get around P&G having patents for NOBS systems sewn up.
Late as 2015 TWB contained NOBS:
https://content.oppictures.com/Master_Images/Master_PDF_Files/pgc84998ct_sds.pdf
So why the switch? Will have to investigate.
launderess
Well-known member
@stan
Like regular Persil in Europe to best one one's knowledge most if not all versions of Tide powdered detergent contain oxygen bleach and an activator. Question is how far up the ingredient list they are which indicates how powerful the bleaching system is overall.
TWB and Tide "Turbo HE" powders have sodium peroxide carbonate and NOBS in top six ingredients.
https://www.whatsinproducts.com/types/type_detail/1/17451/standard/p class="p1">Tide%20Plus%20Bleach%20Laundry%20Detergent%20Powder,%20Original-04/20/2015/p>/16-030-758
https://www.whatsinproducts.com/types/type_detail/1/17442/standard/p class="p1">Tide%20HE%20Turbo%20Clean%20Laundry%20Detergent%20Powder,%20Original-04/17/2015/p>/16-030-749
But notice TWB has higher concentrations of oxygen bleach and activator than Tide "HE Turbo" powder.
Tide "Ultra Oxi" powder also has high concentrations of oxygen bleach and activator.
https://www.whatsinproducts.com/types/type_detail/1/22893/standard/p class="p1">Tide%20Ultra%20OXI%20Powder%20Laundry%20Detergent-09/29/2017/p>/16-033-624
Tide "Free and Gentle" powder has just small amount of oxygen bleach, but no activator.
https://www.whatsinproducts.com/types/type_detail/1/22894/standard/p class="p1">Tide%20Free%20and%20Gentle%20Powder%20Laundry%20Detergent-04/20/2015-1/p>/16-033-625
Like regular Persil in Europe to best one one's knowledge most if not all versions of Tide powdered detergent contain oxygen bleach and an activator. Question is how far up the ingredient list they are which indicates how powerful the bleaching system is overall.
TWB and Tide "Turbo HE" powders have sodium peroxide carbonate and NOBS in top six ingredients.
https://www.whatsinproducts.com/types/type_detail/1/17451/standard/p class="p1">Tide%20Plus%20Bleach%20Laundry%20Detergent%20Powder,%20Original-04/20/2015/p>/16-030-758
https://www.whatsinproducts.com/types/type_detail/1/17442/standard/p class="p1">Tide%20HE%20Turbo%20Clean%20Laundry%20Detergent%20Powder,%20Original-04/17/2015/p>/16-030-749
But notice TWB has higher concentrations of oxygen bleach and activator than Tide "HE Turbo" powder.
Tide "Ultra Oxi" powder also has high concentrations of oxygen bleach and activator.
https://www.whatsinproducts.com/types/type_detail/1/22893/standard/p class="p1">Tide%20Ultra%20OXI%20Powder%20Laundry%20Detergent-09/29/2017/p>/16-033-624
Tide "Free and Gentle" powder has just small amount of oxygen bleach, but no activator.
https://www.whatsinproducts.com/types/type_detail/1/22894/standard/p class="p1">Tide%20Free%20and%20Gentle%20Powder%20Laundry%20Detergent-04/20/2015-1/p>/16-033-625
launderess
Well-known member
Knew read something awhile back....
P&G was going to terminate their agreement with supplier of NOBS (FutureFuels), Corp back in 2015. Two sides came to an later agreement and extended things until 2018.
https://www.happi.com/contents/view_breaking-news/2015-10-07/pg-extends-futurefuel-contract
https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis...s-futurefuel-expects-adverse-impact-from.html
What things came down to is something we all here long have known; sales of powdered laundry and automatic dishwashing detergents have declined, a lot. P&G like Henkel, and Lever Bros largely has liquid/gel format products for laundry and automatic dishwashing, none of which of course can have oxygen bleach in any form. No oxygen bleach then no activator is needed.
P&G like Henkel, Lever Bros and some others still do offer powdered laundry detergents, boosters, and rest. There you still find oxygen bleaching systems and usually activators (at TOL and MOL range at least).
P&G was going to terminate their agreement with supplier of NOBS (FutureFuels), Corp back in 2015. Two sides came to an later agreement and extended things until 2018.
https://www.happi.com/contents/view_breaking-news/2015-10-07/pg-extends-futurefuel-contract
https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis...s-futurefuel-expects-adverse-impact-from.html
What things came down to is something we all here long have known; sales of powdered laundry and automatic dishwashing detergents have declined, a lot. P&G like Henkel, and Lever Bros largely has liquid/gel format products for laundry and automatic dishwashing, none of which of course can have oxygen bleach in any form. No oxygen bleach then no activator is needed.
P&G like Henkel, Lever Bros and some others still do offer powdered laundry detergents, boosters, and rest. There you still find oxygen bleaching systems and usually activators (at TOL and MOL range at least).
Dear
I’m so glad this caught your attention as I figured you’d be one that would get to the bottom of it.
My interpretation is..plain old Tide ain’t so bad.
Plus the Tide original dose not have a horrid scent.
Maybe Angus can post a side pic showing ingredients of the new Tide version. So we can at least see order of ingredient placement ect
I’m so glad this caught your attention as I figured you’d be one that would get to the bottom of it.
My interpretation is..plain old Tide ain’t so bad.
Plus the Tide original dose not have a horrid scent.
Maybe Angus can post a side pic showing ingredients of the new Tide version. So we can at least see order of ingredient placement ect
I have almost gone through a 15 pound box of Tide Ultra Oxi powder and can highly recommend it for use, at least in a top loader. It's one of the very few detergents I like so far since I've been trying different brands.
It cleans well in all temps (85F, 120F, 160F), breaks down very fast in cooler (85F) temps, haven't noticed any residue even on black clothing but I use top loaders that rinse very well. No noticeable fading, which was a big concern. Fragrance is very light to almost undetectable. It has trumped a few of their liquids I have tried and doesn't leave a horrific scent.
This will most likely become the daily driver as long as they don't mess around with the formula and f- it up or discontinue it, both of which P&G is famous for.
[this post was last edited: 3/23/2023-20:15]
It cleans well in all temps (85F, 120F, 160F), breaks down very fast in cooler (85F) temps, haven't noticed any residue even on black clothing but I use top loaders that rinse very well. No noticeable fading, which was a big concern. Fragrance is very light to almost undetectable. It has trumped a few of their liquids I have tried and doesn't leave a horrific scent.
This will most likely become the daily driver as long as they don't mess around with the formula and f- it up or discontinue it, both of which P&G is famous for.
[this post was last edited: 3/23/2023-20:15]
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