Is gas on its way out as a cooking fuel?

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Oh, about gas in general....

I've heard some pretty wild and woolly prognostications regarding the price of gas in the future....

I guess it only makes sense, if you redo your kitchen, to have the facility to switch easily to an electric oven, if you have to.

It's hard to believe that natural gas could become so expensive that we couldn't afford to cook with it, but.....

I hate cooking, but I know that if I COULDN'T, let's just say, bake something I was in the mood for because of the cost, it would really make me nuts. I'm by no means cheap, but I was brought up to be hyper-thrifty energy-wise, and that kind of conditioning is hard to shake (especially when you know it is sensible)....I would have loved to get a solar water heater but was told it would not be effective at this position in North America....
 
I have used coil top and smooth top electric, and I much prefer gas. The only electric I'd consider instead might be induction. Out here gas service is pretty much universal. In older homes gas stoves are more common, but in new construction it's probably about 50/50.

As far as shortages go, normal residential cooking doesn't use that much energy. Home heating and water heating uses a lot more.
 
electricity or gas? or something else?

I have experiences with electricity (we had at home), gas and coal-burners (my grandma had).
Later I lived in Wiesbaden (near Frankfurt) where I had coal/wood-burner and gas.
At the moment we have electricity with solid plates, which is really stupid, as in Germany the fuel you use for heating is the cheaper one and as we have gas central-heating it not understandable why we have an electric water-heater and an electric stove....
I have also experiences with different electric hot plates: solid plates (even the old massiv ones), coils, ceramic hobs with light burners or coils underneath and induction.
I do not like the massiv and solid plates, as they are too slow and difficult to regulate. Coils are fine - easy to regulate, easy to keep clean (except the very old ones with open wires in a massiv plate of fireclay as they are difficult to keep clean and very delicate to handle, but you only still find them in foreign countries, like Egypt and in antique stoves).
I had a ceramic hob a while ago in my own flat in Wuppertal. I found it better to regulate than solid plates but not as powerful as gas-burners especially those with light-burners.
Induction is very powerful - even stronger than many gas-hobs - but: not suitable for people with pace-makers of any kind!! And we are all getting older and live longer and more and more people will live with these helping apparatus'!
What I liked best: solid-fuel burners and gas! Solid-fuel burners are so super versatile, no others can top that!
But for a quick cooking and especially in summer-time gas is excellent! The problem with the fumes can be handled with an exhauster. Our next home must have a gas-stove definitely and, if possible, a wood/coal-burner, too!
Also, primary energy (gas, wood, coal, turf and oil) are always much more efficient than electricity - 1KW/h of electricity needs 3KW/h of fuel energy to be produced!!
Ralf
 
Just to re-iterate:
1KW/h of electricity needs 3KW/h of fuel energy to be produced!!
So unless you have hydroelectric in your area, GAS is generally better for the environment than electric, when a choice exists.

Odydol/Scotty:
P.C Richard and son sells Avanti brand. There is one on Queens Boulevard in Forest Hills, Queens near where the fag bar *Breadsticks* used to be. Think: west of the fire-house; east of the synagogues, IIRC. Probably east of "Our Lady, Queen of Martyrs" church as well."

http://www.pcrichard.com/home.jsp
 
I'm under the impression that in the NYC area, electric heating/clothes drying/cooking is much more expensive than gas, due to our insane per-killowathour electrical costs. This makes gas seem much more reasonable and its the reason why gas is more prevalent around here.

My sister in virginia has all electric in her condo, even tho just down the road her inlaws have gas. She is not thrilled!
 
When my partner and I remodeled our kitchen over 15 years ago we chose a "dual fuel" stove. Gas cooktop but electric oven and broiler. We have the best of both worlds. I grew up with an electric stove and it didn't take me long to appreciate gas. The only thing that would cause me to switch from gas would be induction and I haven't seen much out there on those yet.
As for gas cooktops creating deadly fumes or whatever, isn't that what stove hoods/fans are for? At least the ones that actually vent to outside the house?
I lived in a 1930's home with a big kitchen for a while back in the 80's. It had a beautiful Wedgewood trash & gas stove that was original to the house. If I could accomodate something like that, I would have that stove as my daily driver. Unfortunately my small stamped out 1950's kitchen won't allow for anything other than a 30" range.
 
Toggle, thanks for the rec...I have business in Union Square tomorrow and will probably check them out on 14th tommorrow...

The sales folks at PCR by me in Jersey are obnoxious and need a good beating (and I don't mean the fun kind, either, LOL...)

They seem to be very reasonably priced, given the big-brand alternatives, and would fit my needs if I invest in a four-family dwelling and rent out the other three...

I believe such a stove would meet my needs.
 
GURRRL I no longer risk breaking a nail cleaning anyone else

~I believe such a stove would meet my needs.

An inexpensive 30" (75cm) self-cleaner with sealed burners can be had for circa $340. (See "White-We-stink-house" badge by Electrolux. (Ducks and runs)).

Smaller sizes are seen as a specialty item and tend to be be more $.

At least with the above-described, the tenants can't get grime under the surface and the oven can be cleaned for the next tenant without you having to be their maid/servant, or having to replace the cooker. I'm all for charging a $200 cleaning deposit and handing out pics of conditon in which apt, was received. If they leave a mess you can hire a service with the deposit they just forfeited.
 
Depending on how your electricity is generated!

If your electricity isn't coming from a very high percentage of renewable and environmentally friendly souces or from nuclear, your humble gas stove is vastly more efficient in terms of carbon output than any electric equivilant.

To get power to your electric stove:
The power co burns gas / oil etc .. (energy lost) --- a % of that boils steam --- more energy lost --- that drives a generator -- more energy lost -- then it runs through the transmission network --- yet more energy lost!
Finally it gets to your stove which looses even more energy heating the oven / stovetop.

So, over all, from a CO2 or fuel usage perspective, gas used directly at point of heating is the best.

Can definitely see why you'd want a vent hood though.
 
Depending how electricity is generated...

Hi MRX!
You are right to say so even there are two little mistakes...
Nuclear power is the WORST thing mankind has ever used! Nobody - and I mean nobody! - knows where to store the very dangerous nuclear waste-materials really safe! Their half-life period is 24.000 years!!
The second is not really a mistake, better to say you forgot to add the loss of energy during transport via cables and the loss in transformer stations!

Using electricity for heating of any kind should therefor be forbidden actually! But still....who cares??

Ralf
 
I hope to never see the day

when homeowners can't decided for themselves what cooking fuel to use! Even the best-intentioned legislation often becomes pointless and annoying once it is applied to the real world.

Case in point: by law in California the first switch in a row of switches operating the lights in a kitchen or bathroom must control a fluorescent fixture. The intent is to save energy, which is a noble idea. However, most people dislike fluorescent lighing in their home due to poor color rendition, especially in the bath where women put on makeup and men shave. So what really happens is one of two situations: 1) the fluorescent fixtures are installed in non-essential locations like over the tub, but the switch is in a primary spot and will be relocated by the electrician after the Certificate of Occupancy is obtained, or 2) the fluorescent lamps are in recessed cans which are installed but changed out by the electrician after the C of O.

Some stupid state legislator has now proposed making it illegal to install any non-fluorescent fixture! I can only imagine trying to tell a client spending hundreds of thousands of dollars for a remodel or millions for a new home that their dining room table will have be lit not by a chandelier with small incendescent bulbs but by fluorescent lamps. Modern fluorescent lamps are much better than the old really dreadful ones, but they're still not great and won't fit a lot of fixtures. I'm hoping that new technology in super-efficient LED lamps will soon let us get away from incandescants but still allow good color rendition and a variety of lamp sizes and shapes.

As far as gas cooking goes, pretty much every high-end client I've ever dealt with wants a gas burners by Viking, Dynasty, Thermador, etc. I don't see any indication of this changing any time soon, although I wouldn't be surprised to see some combined use of a gas rangetop with an induction rangetop in a kitchen large enough to handle it.
 
Toggle,

Yep, one of the first things I did afer I bought this house was to extend the gas line to the laundry closet, and replace the electric dryer with a gas unit (a WCI that I already had). Unfortunately that also led me to split up the matched '78 pair. I saved the washer, but donated the dryer to charity.

I am probably also going to replace the vintage Frigidaire drop in electric range on the patio with a gas unit (Modern Maid). Just have to get up the enthusiasm to crawl under the house to do the pipe work.

Water heater is gas, of course. I am thinking of getting a second water heater - this time an on-demand gas unit - for the workshop that's in a completely separate building (and too far away to pipe hot water from the house). That way I could set up a washer section back there with real hot water.

When I win the lotto ;-)
 
I'm actually excited by the California lighting initiative. Yes, I know that there will be people that cheat, and I realize that it will be wasteful in the short term. But necessity is the mother of invention, and I believe it will force the lighting industry to come up with new solutions.

The auto industry b*****d and moaned about seatbelts and other safety devices when forced on them by the government - until they realized that it was something the consumers wanted. This is the same sort of thing.

But back to gas: What exactly IS natural gas? Methane? If so, that might be the most eco-friendly alternative, as they are starting to find ways to capture the methane that escapes from landfills. King County (home of Seattle) has a few pilot programs dealing with that right now. I'm sure other municipalities are doing the same.
 
Toggle,

I don't think the Modern Maid is self-cleaning, but the previous owner left the oven (and entire range) quite spotless. It was real nice to see such care.

As for crawling under the house... yes, there was a time when I actually enjoyed that. Part the thrill of discovery and a complete change from my desk job listening to others bloviate ad nauseum. Now I have a job in the trades (machinist) and my idea of a change of pace at home is to sit at my desk here and bloviate ad nauseum ;-). OK, it's not that black and white, but for whatever reasons I no longer view home and yard work as great a treat as I once did. There is, however, the pleasure that comes from doing a job right from start to finish. Someday I'll have to try that.

Hydralique,

The patio is practically a room of the home. Although it's on ground level, the floor is well paved with real mortared brick, and all four walls are enclosed, as well as a sturdy ceiling. Part of the walling is corrugated fiberglass, but more as an accent and light source than as a cheap alternative to sturdier materials. It's dry in there but not heated during the winter (there is a wall heater in there, but I never use it because it would cost a small fortune to bring the room up to temp). It is a great place to cook and entertain from spring to fall. Well, except for the couple of weeks of 90+ temps we get each summer, when I retreat to the cooler house.
 
sudsmaster - OK, I see, it is a regular indoor range just installed in an unheated rec room. Right now I'm involved in designing an "outdoor kitchen" with trellis, fireplace, grill, refrigerator, warming drawer, sink, etc., and of course everything has to be rated for outdoor installation as there is no roof. I just wondered if Frigidaire had actually offered outdoor appliances once upon a time, before being gutted by WCI and then Electrolux, and forced to become a sort of bargain brand. It's just the sort of creative thing they might have done 40 years ago.

dalangdon - you might find being forced to purchase only fluorescent fixtures exiting, but I can guarantee that those of us who earn a living pleasing demanding residential clients would be in a huge amount of hurt. In particular, it would put most lighting designers and fixture suppliers out of business because clients would just go to out of state sources, not to mention local manufacturers of fixtures. Design professionals would be in the position of having to coordinate installation of potentially illegal fixtures. It would be similar to demanding that all washers sold be short cycle front loaders with no heater and no hot water inlet, so as to require short cold water washes. I don't think many here are AW would be happy with this sort of meddling in personal choice, but there is no question that such a law would save some energy.

Ultimately, as I noted, LEDs will probably be the solution here but it will take some more development. They are already starting to appear in some specialty fixtures such as step lights, and because they have exceptionally long service lifes they will be a natural for fixtures that are difficult to relamp, like a chandelier on a tall ceiling.
 

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