Here's the control panel
KA bites the dust again: A shoppping I will go
- Thread starter petek
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Pete
We like our 7 year old kenmore Elite with the power wash in the back it does a great job. Never a problem with it. It replaced a 1986 Whirlpool that got so loud you could hear it outside the house.
Bob/appnut has one and really like his too.
We like our 7 year old kenmore Elite with the power wash in the back it does a great job. Never a problem with it. It replaced a 1986 Whirlpool that got so loud you could hear it outside the house.
Bob/appnut has one and really like his too.
And the potscrubber jets on the back. They did a good job on my loaf pans which had that sticky PAM residue, like glue. Haven't had a chance yet to try them with the burnt on remains from scalloped potatoes in the Corningware etc. While it was running you could hear the metal pans getting sprayed intermittently, not continually, so not sure whether they run continually or sort of cycle during the wash.
On the front to the right of the handle is a tiny light which is blue when washing and rinsing, then goes red for drying and I think it goes green if you're using the sanitizing cycle.
On the front to the right of the handle is a tiny light which is blue when washing and rinsing, then goes red for drying and I think it goes green if you're using the sanitizing cycle.
Thanks for the control panel pic. My KA has the rinse/hold but not the 1 hr wash...otherwise all the cycles/options are the same. I believe the pro scrub jets alternate with the lower wash arm - it's as if there is not enough power to the pump to supply water to both.
Gary
Gary
Yikes, I just did a full load of dishes that to be truthful were not very dirty, the dirtiest dish is the one in the picture above with some leftover spaghetti sauce on it. The rest were not much at all thanks to Pip always doing a little prewash, as well some "new" old Corningware I'd bought I wanted to wash.
On the ProWash cycle, the one they recommend, it took 2 hours and 10 minutes to get to the dry cycle.. yikes. That's way too long. I'd like to try it with a load of real dirty dishes and see if it takes the same amount of time,, in which case the whole "sensor thing" about adjusting time etc.. would be a bunch of..
we'll see.
On the ProWash cycle, the one they recommend, it took 2 hours and 10 minutes to get to the dry cycle.. yikes. That's way too long. I'd like to try it with a load of real dirty dishes and see if it takes the same amount of time,, in which case the whole "sensor thing" about adjusting time etc.. would be a bunch of..
we'll see.
jerrod6
Well-known member
Does the prowash cycle use the soil sensor? I ask because on my USA configured 2006 Miele DW the cycle labeled NORMAL...the one you would expect to use all the time.... does not use the soil sensor. No soil sensor, no load size sensor...So even if you wash one clean plate the machine will go through an almost 2 hr cycle using a maximum water fill level, with a water temperature no higher than 120F. That was 2006...don't know how NORMAL works in 2012.
On the other hand the cycles that use the soil sensor will adjust the wash time, the wash temperature and the number of water changes to the size of the load and the amount of soiling. The cycle time for these can be 2 hrs 10 minutes for very heavily soiled dishes especially if the load contains many dishes covered with starch or oil, but the cycle times can be as short at 1 hour 25 minutes for lightly soiled loads. Consequently the Normal cycle is one I NEVER use.
So just because they recommend a cycle may not mean it is the best for your conditions.
On the other hand the cycles that use the soil sensor will adjust the wash time, the wash temperature and the number of water changes to the size of the load and the amount of soiling. The cycle time for these can be 2 hrs 10 minutes for very heavily soiled dishes especially if the load contains many dishes covered with starch or oil, but the cycle times can be as short at 1 hour 25 minutes for lightly soiled loads. Consequently the Normal cycle is one I NEVER use.
So just because they recommend a cycle may not mean it is the best for your conditions.
jerrod6
Well-known member
Another Thought
I think I read somewhere that Whrilpool/KA DW calibrate the soil sensor on the first few washes, so if the Prowash cycle is using the sensor perhaps it was doing the calibration during this first run and following cycles will be shorter.
I don't know what is going on during this calibration but I think I read that you are NOT supposed to open the door or interrupt the cycle. Not sure if this applies to your model and I can't really tell you where I read this info but I know I read it..No way I could have dreamed this up.
I think I read somewhere that Whrilpool/KA DW calibrate the soil sensor on the first few washes, so if the Prowash cycle is using the sensor perhaps it was doing the calibration during this first run and following cycles will be shorter.
I don't know what is going on during this calibration but I think I read that you are NOT supposed to open the door or interrupt the cycle. Not sure if this applies to your model and I can't really tell you where I read this info but I know I read it..No way I could have dreamed this up.
jerrod6
Well-known member
Country guy said:
"I believe the pro scrub jets alternate with the lower wash arm - it's as if there is not enough power to the pump to supply water to both."
Did you have the plate with pasta sauce placed in the back of the machine so that the jets would hit it?
"I believe the pro scrub jets alternate with the lower wash arm - it's as if there is not enough power to the pump to supply water to both."
Did you have the plate with pasta sauce placed in the back of the machine so that the jets would hit it?
It's somewhat confusing, so I've scanned the charts,, although the Pro Wash cycle is the only one that shows it adjusts for time, soil level etc and the chart shows different times for soil levels etc.. so does the normal wash..
And if you look at the times for the Pro Wash it says for "light to medium" 110-150 minutes.. I would figure that what I had in there was very lightly soiled
There's really not much difference at all between it and the Normal cycle.
Unless I'm missing something
And if you look at the times for the Pro Wash it says for "light to medium" 110-150 minutes.. I would figure that what I had in there was very lightly soiled
There's really not much difference at all between it and the Normal cycle.
Unless I'm missing something
Is there a Bosch factory in South Carolina too?There is one here in Eastern North Carolina-New Bern-used to be a former Bosch power tool factory.Now they build Bosch appliances there.This NC Bosch factory is about 20miles south of Greenville NC.
Nice Dishwasher!
It is so nice to see that they give you the option to have a 1 hour wash and use a little more water! I bet this cycle would do just fine for cleaning a regular load.
Have you figured out how many final rinses it has?
Thanks for the scans and pictures.
Brent
It is so nice to see that they give you the option to have a 1 hour wash and use a little more water! I bet this cycle would do just fine for cleaning a regular load.
Have you figured out how many final rinses it has?
Thanks for the scans and pictures.
Brent
william637
Well-known member
Use the 1 hour wash
I pulled out the electrical diagram and cycle logic chart when I was installing mine, and found a little nugget of information. The cycle with the hottest water is the 1 hour wash (I do not have the sani option on mine, so I can't speak to how that will change water temps throughout the cycle). It keeps it up at around 145 after the second fill. I have found that this wash actually does better than the heavy wash with the hi-temp scrub option (takes over 2 hours and only heats the water to about 130 - 135 if I remember correctly).
Hope this helps.
I pulled out the electrical diagram and cycle logic chart when I was installing mine, and found a little nugget of information. The cycle with the hottest water is the 1 hour wash (I do not have the sani option on mine, so I can't speak to how that will change water temps throughout the cycle). It keeps it up at around 145 after the second fill. I have found that this wash actually does better than the heavy wash with the hi-temp scrub option (takes over 2 hours and only heats the water to about 130 - 135 if I remember correctly).
Hope this helps.
william637
Well-known member
Are they serious?
I was just looking at the scan of your owner's manual. The normal wash temp is only 105 degrees unless you opt to have a high temp scrub of 120? Since when is 120 a high temp scrub? Now I am going to have to go back and look at my cycle logic chart as well. Since I only use the 1 hour wash, I have forgotten what the parameters of the other cycles are.
What are the engineers thinking? You might as well pee on your dishes - it's going to be about the same temp and you may even get a better flow. 105 degree water isn't going to acheive any hygienic standard, I don't care how long you leave them in there. I hand wash in water hotter than that.
I was just looking at the scan of your owner's manual. The normal wash temp is only 105 degrees unless you opt to have a high temp scrub of 120? Since when is 120 a high temp scrub? Now I am going to have to go back and look at my cycle logic chart as well. Since I only use the 1 hour wash, I have forgotten what the parameters of the other cycles are.
What are the engineers thinking? You might as well pee on your dishes - it's going to be about the same temp and you may even get a better flow. 105 degree water isn't going to acheive any hygienic standard, I don't care how long you leave them in there. I hand wash in water hotter than that.
jerrod6
Well-known member
The engineers are thinking ENERGY STAR rating so that the company can get a discount on their Federal taxes....that's all. I think this year the normal cycle must be the one used to get the ENERGY STAR rating, so a wash temp of 105F will certainly help reduce electricity use. Of course it may not really clean much but then it may take 150 minutes too.... but hey you can use the energy boost which is excluded from the ENERGY STAR ratings criteria and then the performance may improve.
Nothing is done for the consumer...everything is done for the corporation.
Nothing is done for the consumer...everything is done for the corporation.
I think you're seeing 105 minutes, not degrees LOL . It's all geared towards using 120 deg water.
It looks to me like the soil sensor must work on all cycles except the 1 hr wash. since they all give varying degrees of time depending on how dirty the dishes are. So I'm still stumped as to what exactly extra the PRO WASH cycle does that the others don't.
It looks to me like the soil sensor must work on all cycles except the 1 hr wash. since they all give varying degrees of time depending on how dirty the dishes are. So I'm still stumped as to what exactly extra the PRO WASH cycle does that the others don't.
william637
Well-known member
Nope - 105 water
Nope - I just double checked. Look at the description of the hi-temp scrub option. It says it increases the water temp from 105 to 120.
Nope - I just double checked. Look at the description of the hi-temp scrub option. It says it increases the water temp from 105 to 120.
See what you mean.. odd still though because it's supposed to heat the water in all cycles at least up to 120, so why do they just mention it there and if the other cycles are also heated up to 120,, then what's the point of the high temp scrub in the first place.. lol
Pete, we have at my mother's house the exact same machine, bought last year, only in stainless steel. Is yours the "Architect series"? One tip is that is nothing is caked on, the china crystal cycle is enough and it does not take as long. Our stickers on the door are different, they recommend Finish powerballs. That Cascade we would buy at Sams Club is awful.
Dumb question perhaps, but does the machine somehow cool your water to 105? Seems to me the determining factor is the water inlet temp, not the machine. I keep my water in the 150 range all the time, so my DW gets close to that and it cleans spotless every time.
william637
Well-known member
Cooling Water
Mattl
Dishwashers do not cool the water as an intended part of the cycle, but unless the water is being heated inside the machine during the cycle, it will never be as hot as what is in your water heater.
First, there is the issue of clearing the cold water out of your pipes when the machine fills. Then, the thermal mass you have to heat (the dishes and the dishwasher itself), is relatively high compared to the amount of water that comes in for each fill, so that cools the water off considerably. Finally, you have the thermal losses from conduction (dishwasher to surroundings - generally small now that they are well insulated), and water evaporating and exiting through the vent.
This was probably more information than you wanted to know, sorry about that. My favorite engineering courses in college were by far heat transfer and thermodynamics, so even simple things like thinking about the energy transfers in a dishwasher fascinate me.
As a side note, you are like me - my water heater is as hot as it will go - my tap water is about 155 - 160. When I remodeled the kitchen two years ago, I put in two top of the line frigidaire gallery professional series dishwashers. I was very excited about getting those two dishwashers - I have a previous professional series with the precision wash that is about 14 years old now. It may be the most kick-ass plastic tub dishwasher ever. In fact, I will put it up against many older machines. I digress..
I always purge the hot water lines before starting the dishwasher. One of numerous problems that I had with these new dishwashers is that if I selected "sanitize", I would never get the "sanitized" light to come on at the end of the two hour cycle. The repairman came and worked on it three times, replaced temeprature sensors and the circuit board. We talked to Frigidaire about it. Their answer (I can't make this up): "The water in your house is too hot. It confuses the dishwasher". That, coupled with several other problems, made me rip them out and put the kitchenaids in.
Mattl
Dishwashers do not cool the water as an intended part of the cycle, but unless the water is being heated inside the machine during the cycle, it will never be as hot as what is in your water heater.
First, there is the issue of clearing the cold water out of your pipes when the machine fills. Then, the thermal mass you have to heat (the dishes and the dishwasher itself), is relatively high compared to the amount of water that comes in for each fill, so that cools the water off considerably. Finally, you have the thermal losses from conduction (dishwasher to surroundings - generally small now that they are well insulated), and water evaporating and exiting through the vent.
This was probably more information than you wanted to know, sorry about that. My favorite engineering courses in college were by far heat transfer and thermodynamics, so even simple things like thinking about the energy transfers in a dishwasher fascinate me.
As a side note, you are like me - my water heater is as hot as it will go - my tap water is about 155 - 160. When I remodeled the kitchen two years ago, I put in two top of the line frigidaire gallery professional series dishwashers. I was very excited about getting those two dishwashers - I have a previous professional series with the precision wash that is about 14 years old now. It may be the most kick-ass plastic tub dishwasher ever. In fact, I will put it up against many older machines. I digress..
I always purge the hot water lines before starting the dishwasher. One of numerous problems that I had with these new dishwashers is that if I selected "sanitize", I would never get the "sanitized" light to come on at the end of the two hour cycle. The repairman came and worked on it three times, replaced temeprature sensors and the circuit board. We talked to Frigidaire about it. Their answer (I can't make this up): "The water in your house is too hot. It confuses the dishwasher". That, coupled with several other problems, made me rip them out and put the kitchenaids in.
Hey Bob... yes it is. I'll give that a go soon as I build up enough dirty dishes.. It usually takes us 2-3 days around here.
I did try the 1 hr. wash last night (without the dry cycle added). It cleaned well though at the beginning the machine seemed to be filling and purging, then running a minute, then draining a little,then adding a tiny amount of water, then running again etc. in a most odd manner I couldn't quite figure out. Why it doesn't just fill, pre rinse, drain, then wash, I dunno. I probably wouldn't have noticed had I been upstairs, but my pc is literally right underneath the thing in the basement and I'm sitting surfing etc and it's like what the hell is that machine doing up there.
I did try the 1 hr. wash last night (without the dry cycle added). It cleaned well though at the beginning the machine seemed to be filling and purging, then running a minute, then draining a little,then adding a tiny amount of water, then running again etc. in a most odd manner I couldn't quite figure out. Why it doesn't just fill, pre rinse, drain, then wash, I dunno. I probably wouldn't have noticed had I been upstairs, but my pc is literally right underneath the thing in the basement and I'm sitting surfing etc and it's like what the hell is that machine doing up there.
william637
Well-known member
Cycle logic
Yeah, I know what you are talking about. Mine doesn't purge the water during fills, but EVERY fill sequence is like this:
Fill (approx 15-20 seconds, motor off)
Fill with motor on (approx 5 seconds)
Fill off and motor off (approx 10-15 seconds)
Fill with motor on (approx 10-15 seconds)
Fill off and motor off (approx 10-15 seconds)
Fill (until float switch engaged) with motor on (approx 15-20 seconds)
Fill off and motor off (approx 5-10 seconds)
One more motor off sequence and then it goes into the cycle.
If you open the door to pause the cycle, and then restart, as it restarts it goes through the same type of deal. 3 or 4 times the motor turns on and off before it resumes the cycle.
I would love someone to explain the rationale behind this. I can only come up with the following:
Turbidity sensors are generally engaged to check water clarity when the water is stationary. Perhaps even though turbidity is only monitored a few times in the cycle, they only wrote one fill sequence.
If anybody knows why the cycle logic is so crazy in these machines, I am all ears. I have been trying to figure it out.
Yeah, I know what you are talking about. Mine doesn't purge the water during fills, but EVERY fill sequence is like this:
Fill (approx 15-20 seconds, motor off)
Fill with motor on (approx 5 seconds)
Fill off and motor off (approx 10-15 seconds)
Fill with motor on (approx 10-15 seconds)
Fill off and motor off (approx 10-15 seconds)
Fill (until float switch engaged) with motor on (approx 15-20 seconds)
Fill off and motor off (approx 5-10 seconds)
One more motor off sequence and then it goes into the cycle.
If you open the door to pause the cycle, and then restart, as it restarts it goes through the same type of deal. 3 or 4 times the motor turns on and off before it resumes the cycle.
I would love someone to explain the rationale behind this. I can only come up with the following:
Turbidity sensors are generally engaged to check water clarity when the water is stationary. Perhaps even though turbidity is only monitored a few times in the cycle, they only wrote one fill sequence.
If anybody knows why the cycle logic is so crazy in these machines, I am all ears. I have been trying to figure it out.
jerrod6
Well-known member
So the motor keeps turning on and off during the fill. Does it spray the water during the times when the motor is running? Does the water continue to run in the entire time this is happening or does it stop and start like the motor?
william637
Well-known member
Off periods
During the off periods, everything stops - the fill and the motor.
About the 3rd time it restarts, you hear the water valve opening and closing as the water level is sloshing at the float switch max level.
During the off periods, everything stops - the fill and the motor.
About the 3rd time it restarts, you hear the water valve opening and closing as the water level is sloshing at the float switch max level.
That sounds very much like what mine was doing. Won't know till I run it again on the cycle to confirm if it was also draining a little.. sounded like it was.
Pete and Mark this what our Kenmore Elite does we had the Sears guy out after we heard this and it is the sensing going on. We use the Smart Wash cycle the most on ours and it does a good job. In our water we have found that Finish Quantum is the best for us.
Brent; not sure how many final rinses it did. I wasn't in the kitchen all the time and it's also hard to tell when it's actually rinsing because there is no rinse indicator or even a countdown timer like on the other one which is sort of annoying.. That little light on the front door stays blue throughout the wash and rinse cycles before turning green when it's done.
william637 I was being a bit facetious with my "cooling" comment. I too purge the water line before running the DW so I get the hottest water possible. I just struck me odd talking about 105 degree water, I could not function with water that cold.
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