Kenmore/ISE disposal dead?

[askolover]

Ok, I'm pretty needy today. Mom's Kenmore/ISE made disposal 1/2 HP that's 30 years old has decided to not work. I don't have a model number (I was too busy fooling with her dryer). It just hums. I put the wrench up in it and it turns easily all the way around with no hesitation or noises so it's not jammed. Flip the switch and nothing but humming. I really don't know what all comprises the internal workings of a disposal motor. It has never failed us in thirty years til now. So I've been shopping around just in case and they sure have gone up in price! I see Moen and Frigidaire units...but are they any good? She doesn't put a whole lot of stuff down it and never any bones or hard stuff. Should I just replace it? Capacitor? Fried motor? I dunno. Advice please

 

[circlew]

Greg, I suggest you replace it with another ISE made disposer, as you will avoid the time consuming task of removing the old sink flange, and installing a new one. If I remember correctly, both the Moen and Frigidaire units are made by Anaheim Mfg. in China, and I personally would avoid them.

 

[qsd-dan]

You can try removing the capacitor and testing it if you have meter that tests capacitance. Otherwise, it's replacement time.

 

[combo52]

ISE built disposer won’t run

Hi Greg, it’s likely a bad start winding or a bad centrifugal switch. There’s not likely a capacitor on this model unless it’s a top-of-the-line model.

I agree with Tom and his reply. I would definitely get another ISE built disposer. They also build the disposers for whirlpool and KitchenAid, if you’re in this for the long haul get one that has stainless steel grinding components that’s an easy direct fit. There’s no reason we need to give any more money to China.

John

 

[reactor]

ISE

Agree with what Tom and John that In-Sink-Erator is the way to go. Whirlpool purchased them from Emerson Electric in November, 2022. You are supporting an American Company and getting a product assembled here. In my opinion, a much higher quality product with greater longevity than the Chinese manufacturered units.

I was going to make a post about the new Whirlpool/ISE units, but I might as well tell about it here.

I purchased one from Lowe's about two and a half weeks ago, the one-horsepower model. I couldn't resist, a new disposal is the last thing I need, ad I have vintage and new units stored all over the house. lol But to get back to the point...

It's a quality unit. Whirlpool redesigned it. It is lighter in weight now, which makes for an easier install. In the past some models had auto-reverse, This has been removed from the redesigned units snd the manual overload reset has been changed to automatic.

So, if you purchase one, make sure you nor your mom put your fingers or hand in it in it to remove a foreign object. (Which is not a good anyway.) If one forgets to cut off the power, and it restarts whike one's hand is in there you have a potential for injury.

Likewise, a sudden restart while holding the "wrenchette" in the bottom of the unit could result in severe injury as well. I filed a report with the Consumer Safety Commission and contacted Whirlpool, with my concerns. Yes, it's the consumer responsibility to turn off the power, and not put one's hand/fingers in the hopper, but you know it's bound to happen and I don't want to see anyone get hurt.

Overall, it is a very nice unit. It is part of the top-of-the-line "Advanced Series.". It is the quietest disposal I have had. No noticeable vibration transmission to the sink or countertop. As far as grinding, very good, but not great. ISE has redesigned the grind ring. It is faster than my other ISE's in gringing corn cobs. Haven't tried any bones yet. It doesn't have a rind flipper on the turntable as my last ISE did, so sometimes cobs get caught up in hopper/grind chamber. They touch the turntable but there is nothing there to kick them over to the impellers. and you have to stop the unit and rearrange them a bit, with the handle if a large serving spoon, etc. so they will hit the turntable correctly, no big deal.

Whirlpool/ISE has put an undercutting disc beneath the turntable to give a finer grind, just as Hobart Viking/KitchenAid has. A different design than Hobart's, but both achieve the same objective--to cut stringy food wasted and reduce the potential for drain clogging, due to the smaller food wastes particles being discharged.

If you go down the line, from the advanced series, you lose the undercutter and the disposals get louder as you go down also. The advanced series has 3/4hp., one HP and one and a quarter horsepower units.

Sounds as if your mom could get by with one of the lower line units in a 1/2 horsepower model and be fine, if cost is an issue, since she has limited use of the disposer. If you occasionally have drain clogs, the advanced series with be advantageous with the finer discharge. Compared to the Chinese built high rpm units, any of the ISE's will be relatively quiet. But if you want very quiet then the Advance series will do the trick.

As Tom said, if you want to leave the old mount in place and use it, it will likely cut down installation time. However, after thirty years, your mom's old mounting collar/rim, in the sink may be dull or scratched and you can replace it with the new one.

ISE offers a rubber ring that you can purchase to use in place of putty under the mounting rim, if you wish. It's about four dollars.

If your mom's disposal is plugged in, get the unit model that comes with the cord. Or you can purchased the optional cord by itself, which Lowe's also carries.

The new ISE's have a new cord/wire receptacle in the bottom of the machine. You no longer have to remove a plate and wire the cord or hard wire with wire nut. The cord just slides in the receptacle and locks. If you are hard wiring it, you just an adaptor to the end of your incoming wire, and snap it into the unit. Takes about thirty seconds (literally).

Have fun with your installation!

Barry

 

[Marky_Mark]

If the overload protection is now auto-resetting and the disposer will restart without the power being cycled, that is ludicrous.  If it does cut out, many people have air switches and/or have their disposer hard wired.  People are likely to press the button and will have no way of knowing if it's set to on or off.  If the cut-out operates, this is exactly the time when people are likely to go fishing inside the disposer.  No wonder you've emailed CPSC.  People might just leave it and go out and then it will restart and happily run for hours LOL or keep cutting out if it's jammed.  Let alone being attacked by a missile in the form of a self-service Wrenchette.

 

I like models that reverse direction every time you turn them on.  The model that's here in the flat in Dublin does that.  I think it helps with dislodging anything that tries to escape.  The model here appears to be the traditional manual reset, not that it's ever tripped. 

 

This model here works very well.  Recommended!

 

[qsd-dan]

"In the past some models had auto-reverse, this has been removed from the redesigned units..."

That's s step backwards instead of forward, IMO. Reversing the motor vastly increases the chances of unjamming itself.

"Whirlpool/ISE has put an undercutting disc beneath the turntable to give a finer grind, just as Hobart Viking/KitchenAid has."

That's a step in the right direction but should have been a mandatory design across the board in all disposers for at least a half century now.

 

[reactor]

reverse

Agreed, Dan and Mark. I was disappointed to see the auto reverse gone. That has dejammed me many times in the past. It also increases the life of the grinding ring by using the opposite cutting surface each time it starts.

It would be nice if the undercutter were in all models, but Whirlpool wanted as many reasons as possible for consumers to upgrade to the top line models.

[this post was last edited: 5/20/2024-17:46]

 

[askolover]

Thanks for the advice. I'm looking at ISE models for the sole ease of installation. Hers has been great and it was a stainless one at that. The grind chamber still looks brand new after thirty years.

 

[combo52]

New disposers

Interesting I will have to look into the auto reset feature for the overload, it doesn’t seem like they really would build something like that. There have been disposers in the past that had auto reset, but they were always batch feed models so you had to have the stopper in place for the thing to possibly start.

Like you said Mark, you wouldn’t want the thing coming on and running when you weren’t present, a disposer will only run for 15 or 20 minutes before the motor overheats since there’s no cooling system however but it would still be undesirable.

Undercut blades have been used on various disposers for decades was king used to have them also not sure if Maytag had one or not certainly a good idea but not essential.

I almost hate to mention it, but the Chinese disposers actually grind things very fine if you have plumbing problems they just don’t last very long, they’re grind chambers are much smaller and it’s hard to put larger items in them.

John

 

[reactor]

surprise lack of safety

I could barely believe what I read, when researching Whirlpool 's data about their newly redesigned ISE disposers. It is an accident waiting to happen.

It didn't prevent me from purchasing one as I understand the potentialities and take precautions. For the average consumer, who often doesn't read operating instructions, and for those who do and forget or those who don't abide by them, I fear there is going to be a severe injury. The operating instructions do not emphasize anything safety precautions other than the standard precautions of don't place hands or fingers into the unit and make sure power is off before using the wrenchette.

Mark is spot on about the air switch. You can't tell if it is in or off as you have no visual indicator as with the wall switch. Mamy may not think about disconnecting the unit from the air switch, beneath the sink, before putting their hand in the unit or using the wrenchette.

I communicated with Whirlpool again, yesterday. I have no illusions that my actions will cause a difference, yet I feel compelled to do something before an individual gets badly hurt.

It may be one of the issues where nothing gets done until the law suits start coming in.

The only other disposer I ever had, with auto-restart was a General Electric batch-feed (a true GE, not an Anaheim, GE.)

No, the Maytag (pre-ISE) units did not have an undercutter, John. The only disposers I ever had, and am personally aware of, with an undercutter, are in the Hobart KitchenAid/Viking units there may be others.Obviously under cutters are not a necessity since most disposers don't have them. But a desirability, especially for people who have lines prone to blockages. Whirlpool was right on target with that addition.

Yes, some of the China built units were rated by CU as having fine particle grind, but not all. It will be interesting to see the ratings of the new Advanced models of the ISE units, when CU tests them.

If any of you share my fears of people being injured by the auto-reset you might want to send a message to the Consumer Product Safety Commission, as well. Whether it does any good is unknown, but if enough people contact them maybe they will at least question Whirlpool and maybe cause them to give consideration to the issue.

 

[Marky_Mark]

I can barely believe it either, Barry.  Are you able to confirm that the disposer does indeed restart without warning after an automatic reset of the cut out?  Can we confirm that the power does not need to be cycled off/on before the disposer jumps back to life?

 

I did manage to find a vague reference to the auto reset on the US version of the ISE website but I couldn't find anything explicit.

 

The ISE website in the UK lists 9 models but they are all the traditional models with manual resets.  And 4 of the 9 have auto reverse.  No evidence yet of auto reset on the UK/Ireland versions.

 

[reactor]

reset

There is nothing in the literature, that I read that indicated a reset of the electrical power is needed. Although it does say to turn off power before attempting clear a jam, which is what all disosal manufacturers state. What I will do is overload mine and see what happens. I have work right now, but maybe this evening I can give it a shot and report back.

Barry
[this post was last edited: 5/21/2024-18:59]

 

[Marky_Mark]

That will be great, Barry.  I will look forward to hearing the result of your test.

 

[reactor]

no results

In great expectation that the ISE disposal might require a power recycle to cause the automatic overload to re-engage the circuit, I allowed it to do a no load run. The auto-reset overload cut off power, eight minutes into the test.

Whirlpools instructions indicate the overload protection should automatically reset in about 20 minutes. The motor was so hot, after an eight minute free air run that I could not hold my finger to the bottom of the unit, literally it was that hot.
After one hour, I figured it was not going to reset without turning the power switch on then off, which is what I had hoped for. The results, Nothing.

It's now been over three hours, the motor is only warm to the touch, but it will not restart, neither on its own or when I cycle the power switch.

I have never had a disposal take longer than 5 to twenty minutes after overheating. Either the overload protection is defective or it only resets at a very low temperature. Will let it set, with power applied, for a couple more hours.

I have my doubts if it's going to reset at all.

Addendum: The disposal restarted after four hours. However, since I had cycled the power switch that voids the experiment. Will try another day when I have four hours available for cool down. Dan, Yes, I checked that power was still getting to the unit with my multimeter.[this post was last edited: 5/21/2024-19:02]

 

[qsd-dan]

Yikes!

Hoping the disposer will reset itself. Did you check the breaker?

 

[combo52]

Old waste king disposers had fibers undercutter blades. In fact, I think they were the first to have them.

My top-of-the-line whirlpool disposer from 1977 was a batch feed model and it had auto reset when you overloaded it in fact if you left it turned on when it jammed it would start in the opposite direction to help free the jam and finish grinding, unfortunately the only time it reversed is when you overloaded it otherwise it always ran in the same direction. It was billed as a bone specialist and it certainly did grind bones. It also ground things very finally, which was great because we had a really old galvanized drain line in that kitchen and never had problems with clogs. John

 

[Marky_Mark]

Barry, this is going to be very interesting indeed! I’m looking forward to seeing how it goes (or doesn’t).

 

[reactor]

waste king

Waste King made many fine disposers before being purchased by Anaheim. My Uncle, who lived in Orange County, California worked for them. He got sometime if an award from Waste King for a suggested about a modification to their seal. Don't know specially what it was. My Uncle passed away long ago, but my Aunt told me about the award.

The Whirlpool Bone Specialist is one disposal I would really like to find. Unfortunately, Consumers Report gave it an exceedingly low rating, citing that it ejected bone particles during their bone grinding tests. I believe they said it frequently jammed in the bone tests. I will have to look that up as I don't want to make a misstatement on that. Was certainly surprised for a Whirlpool unit to be at the bottom tier of the ratings.