Kenmore/ISE disposal dead?

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askolover

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Ok, I'm pretty needy today. Mom's Kenmore/ISE made disposal 1/2 HP that's 30 years old has decided to not work. I don't have a model number (I was too busy fooling with her dryer). It just hums. I put the wrench up in it and it turns easily all the way around with no hesitation or noises so it's not jammed. Flip the switch and nothing but humming. I really don't know what all comprises the internal workings of a disposal motor. It has never failed us in thirty years til now. So I've been shopping around just in case and they sure have gone up in price! I see Moen and Frigidaire units...but are they any good? She doesn't put a whole lot of stuff down it and never any bones or hard stuff. Should I just replace it? Capacitor? Fried motor? I dunno. Advice please
 
You can try removing the capacitor and testing it if you have meter that tests capacitance. Otherwise, it's replacement time.
 
ISE built disposer won’t run

Hi Greg, it’s likely a bad start winding or a bad centrifugal switch. There’s not likely a capacitor on this model unless it’s a top-of-the-line model.

I agree with Tom and his reply. I would definitely get another ISE built disposer. They also build the disposers for whirlpool and KitchenAid, if you’re in this for the long haul get one that has stainless steel grinding components that’s an easy direct fit. There’s no reason we need to give any more money to China.

John
 
ISE

Agree with what Tom and John that In-Sink-Erator is the way to go. Whirlpool purchased them from Emerson Electric in November, 2022. You are supporting an American Company and getting a product assembled here. In my opinion, a much higher quality product with greater longevity than the Chinese manufacturered units.

I was going to make a post about the new Whirlpool/ISE units, but I might as well tell about it here.

I purchased one from Lowe's about two and a half weeks ago, the one-horsepower model. I couldn't resist, a new disposal is the last thing I need, ad I have vintage and new units stored all over the house. lol But to get back to the point...

It's a quality unit. Whirlpool redesigned it. It is lighter in weight now, which makes for an easier install. In the past some models had auto-reverse, This has been removed from the redesigned units snd the manual overload reset has been changed to automatic.

So, if you purchase one, make sure you nor your mom put your fingers or hand in it in it to remove a foreign object. (Which is not a good anyway.) If one forgets to cut off the power, and it restarts whike one's hand is in there you have a potential for injury.

Likewise, a sudden restart while holding the "wrenchette" in the bottom of the unit could result in severe injury as well. I filed a report with the Consumer Safety Commission and contacted Whirlpool, with my concerns. Yes, it's the consumer responsibility to turn off the power, and not put one's hand/fingers in the hopper, but you know it's bound to happen and I don't want to see anyone get hurt.

Overall, it is a very nice unit. It is part of the top-of-the-line "Advanced Series.". It is the quietest disposal I have had. No noticeable vibration transmission to the sink or countertop. As far as grinding, very good, but not great. ISE has redesigned the grind ring. It is faster than my other ISE's in gringing corn cobs. Haven't tried any bones yet. It doesn't have a rind flipper on the turntable as my last ISE did, so sometimes cobs get caught up in hopper/grind chamber. They touch the turntable but there is nothing there to kick them over to the impellers. and you have to stop the unit and rearrange them a bit, with the handle if a large serving spoon, etc. so they will hit the turntable correctly, no big deal.

Whirlpool/ISE has put an undercutting disc beneath the turntable to give a finer grind, just as Hobart Viking/KitchenAid has. A different design than Hobart's, but both achieve the same objective--to cut stringy food wasted and reduce the potential for drain clogging, due to the smaller food wastes particles being discharged.

If you go down the line, from the advanced series, you lose the undercutter and the disposals get louder as you go down also. The advanced series has 3/4hp., one HP and one and a quarter horsepower units.

Sounds as if your mom could get by with one of the lower line units in a 1/2 horsepower model and be fine, if cost is an issue, since she has limited use of the disposer. If you occasionally have drain clogs, the advanced series with be advantageous with the finer discharge. Compared to the Chinese built high rpm units, any of the ISE's will be relatively quiet. But if you want very quiet then the Advance series will do the trick.

As Tom said, if you want to leave the old mount in place and use it, it will likely cut down installation time. However, after thirty years, your mom's old mounting collar/rim, in the sink may be dull or scratched and you can replace it with the new one.

ISE offers a rubber ring that you can purchase to use in place of putty under the mounting rim, if you wish. It's about four dollars.

If your mom's disposal is plugged in, get the unit model that comes with the cord. Or you can purchased the optional cord by itself, which Lowe's also carries.

The new ISE's have a new cord/wire receptacle in the bottom of the machine. You no longer have to remove a plate and wire the cord or hard wire with wire nut. The cord just slides in the receptacle and locks. If you are hard wiring it, you just an adaptor to the end of your incoming wire, and snap it into the unit. Takes about thirty seconds (literally).

Have fun with your installation!

Barry
 
If the overload protection is now auto-resetting and the disposer will restart without the power being cycled, that is ludicrous.  If it does cut out, many people have air switches and/or have their disposer hard wired.  People are likely to press the button and will have no way of knowing if it's set to on or off.  If the cut-out operates, this is exactly the time when people are likely to go fishing inside the disposer.  No wonder you've emailed CPSC.  People might just leave it and go out and then it will restart and happily run for hours LOL or keep cutting out if it's jammed.  Let alone being attacked by a missile in the form of a self-service Wrenchette.

 

I like models that reverse direction every time you turn them on.  The model that's here in the flat in Dublin does that.  I think it helps with dislodging anything that tries to escape.  The model here appears to be the traditional manual reset, not that it's ever tripped. 

 

This model here works very well.  Recommended!

marky_mark-2024052015391304535_1.jpg

marky_mark-2024052015391304535_2.jpg
 
"In the past some models had auto-reverse, this has been removed from the redesigned units..."

That's s step backwards instead of forward, IMO. Reversing the motor vastly increases the chances of unjamming itself.

"Whirlpool/ISE has put an undercutting disc beneath the turntable to give a finer grind, just as Hobart Viking/KitchenAid has."

That's a step in the right direction but should have been a mandatory design across the board in all disposers for at least a half century now.
 
reverse

Agreed, Dan and Mark. I was disappointed to see the auto reverse gone. That has dejammed me many times in the past. It also increases the life of the grinding ring by using the opposite cutting surface each time it starts.

It would be nice if the undercutter were in all models, but Whirlpool wanted as many reasons as possible for consumers to upgrade to the top line models.

[this post was last edited: 5/20/2024-17:46]
 
New disposers

Interesting I will have to look into the auto reset feature for the overload, it doesn’t seem like they really would build something like that. There have been disposers in the past that had auto reset, but they were always batch feed models so you had to have the stopper in place for the thing to possibly start.

Like you said Mark, you wouldn’t want the thing coming on and running when you weren’t present, a disposer will only run for 15 or 20 minutes before the motor overheats since there’s no cooling system however but it would still be undesirable.

Undercut blades have been used on various disposers for decades was king used to have them also not sure if Maytag had one or not certainly a good idea but not essential.

I almost hate to mention it, but the Chinese disposers actually grind things very fine if you have plumbing problems they just don’t last very long, they’re grind chambers are much smaller and it’s hard to put larger items in them.

John
 
surprise lack of safety

I could barely believe what I read, when researching Whirlpool 's data about their newly redesigned ISE disposers. It is an accident waiting to happen.

It didn't prevent me from purchasing one as I understand the potentialities and take precautions. For the average consumer, who often doesn't read operating instructions, and for those who do and forget or those who don't abide by them, I fear there is going to be a severe injury. The operating instructions do not emphasize anything safety precautions other than the standard precautions of don't place hands or fingers into the unit and make sure power is off before using the wrenchette.

Mark is spot on about the air switch. You can't tell if it is in or off as you have no visual indicator as with the wall switch. Mamy may not think about disconnecting the unit from the air switch, beneath the sink, before putting their hand in the unit or using the wrenchette.

I communicated with Whirlpool again, yesterday. I have no illusions that my actions will cause a difference, yet I feel compelled to do something before an individual gets badly hurt.

It may be one of the issues where nothing gets done until the law suits start coming in.

The only other disposer I ever had, with auto-restart was a General Electric batch-feed (a true GE, not an Anaheim, GE.)

No, the Maytag (pre-ISE) units did not have an undercutter, John. The only disposers I ever had, and am personally aware of, with an undercutter, are in the Hobart KitchenAid/Viking units there may be others.Obviously under cutters are not a necessity since most disposers don't have them. But a desirability, especially for people who have lines prone to blockages. Whirlpool was right on target with that addition.

Yes, some of the China built units were rated by CU as having fine particle grind, but not all. It will be interesting to see the ratings of the new Advanced models of the ISE units, when CU tests them.

If any of you share my fears of people being injured by the auto-reset you might want to send a message to the Consumer Product Safety Commission, as well. Whether it does any good is unknown, but if enough people contact them maybe they will at least question Whirlpool and maybe cause them to give consideration to the issue.
 
I can barely believe it either, Barry.  Are you able to confirm that the disposer does indeed restart without warning after an automatic reset of the cut out?  Can we confirm that the power does not need to be cycled off/on before the disposer jumps back to life?

 

I did manage to find a vague reference to the auto reset on the US version of the ISE website but I couldn't find anything explicit.

 

The ISE website in the UK lists 9 models but they are all the traditional models with manual resets.  And 4 of the 9 have auto reverse.  No evidence yet of auto reset on the UK/Ireland versions.
 
reset

There is nothing in the literature, that I read that indicated a reset of the electrical power is needed. Although it does say to turn off power before attempting clear a jam, which is what all disosal manufacturers state. What I will do is overload mine and see what happens. I have work right now, but maybe this evening I can give it a shot and report back.

Barry
[this post was last edited: 5/21/2024-18:59]
 
no results

In great expectation that the ISE disposal might require a power recycle to cause the automatic overload to re-engage the circuit, I allowed it to do a no load run. The auto-reset overload cut off power, eight minutes into the test.

Whirlpools instructions indicate the overload protection should automatically reset in about 20 minutes. The motor was so hot, after an eight minute free air run that I could not hold my finger to the bottom of the unit, literally it was that hot.
After one hour, I figured it was not going to reset without turning the power switch on then off, which is what I had hoped for. The results, Nothing.

It's now been over three hours, the motor is only warm to the touch, but it will not restart, neither on its own or when I cycle the power switch.

I have never had a disposal take longer than 5 to twenty minutes after overheating. Either the overload protection is defective or it only resets at a very low temperature. Will let it set, with power applied, for a couple more hours.

I have my doubts if it's going to reset at all.

Addendum: The disposal restarted after four hours. However, since I had cycled the power switch that voids the experiment. Will try another day when I have four hours available for cool down. Dan, Yes, I checked that power was still getting to the unit with my multimeter.[this post was last edited: 5/21/2024-19:02]
 
Old waste king disposers had fibers undercutter blades. In fact, I think they were the first to have them.

My top-of-the-line whirlpool disposer from 1977 was a batch feed model and it had auto reset when you overloaded it in fact if you left it turned on when it jammed it would start in the opposite direction to help free the jam and finish grinding, unfortunately the only time it reversed is when you overloaded it otherwise it always ran in the same direction. It was billed as a bone specialist and it certainly did grind bones. It also ground things very finally, which was great because we had a really old galvanized drain line in that kitchen and never had problems with clogs. John
 
waste king

Waste King made many fine disposers before being purchased by Anaheim. My Uncle, who lived in Orange County, California worked for them. He got sometime if an award from Waste King for a suggested about a modification to their seal. Don't know specially what it was. My Uncle passed away long ago, but my Aunt told me about the award.

The Whirlpool Bone Specialist is one disposal I would really like to find. Unfortunately, Consumers Report gave it an exceedingly low rating, citing that it ejected bone particles during their bone grinding tests. I believe they said it frequently jammed in the bone tests. I will have to look that up as I don't want to make a misstatement on that. Was certainly surprised for a Whirlpool unit to be at the bottom tier of the ratings.
 
Real whirlpool garbage disposers

Whirlpool introduced their garbage disposal in the late 50s and it was a decent unit, but they never improved it. It was not one of their great products.

Working for a whirlpool dealer, we sold a lot of them and it was a good inexpensive disposer, we mainly push the Maytag units as we were Maytag dealer as well.

But I’ll be the first to admit it was not a great product whirlpool discontinued them in the late 70s and that was a smart choice. They didn’t want to invest the money and redesigning it, and went to build disposers, and of course they acquired KitchenAid and got the national designed KitchenAid disposer, which was a good unit but costly to be competitive.

Back to your new auto reset disposer what model number is your new disposer?

It looks like it does indeed have an auto reset, but you do have to turn the power off and then back on. It will not start on its own unless you have the switch on ( and have turned it off and back on since it shut itself off ), there is the potential for injury but I think they’re looking at tens of thousands of dollars are going to save and running warranty calls and only pushing the reset button. I’ve probably done that like 1000 times without a whole lot of exaggeration over my career.

Even though a garbage disposal is a potentially dangerous Appliance I have never personally heard of anybody being injured by one. I have seen Husband trying the unjamming wrench when the wife turns it on, etc. and never seen anybody injured. It certainly is a possibility, however.

I’m not sure this is something that the consumer product safety commission needs to investigate at least until there’s some injuries. I dare say that whirlpool thought it out pretty thoroughly if they’ve done it this way but who knows

John
 
auto reset

Hi John. That was what the test was for to see if the auto-reset would just come on after a cool down, or if it would require a cycling of the power switch, before it would reset. Whirlpool's operating instructions say to turn power switch off or unplug an air switch before attempting to unjam the unit.

That would provide the cycling of the power, if their auto-reset requires it.

What we are hoping for is the system will not restart on its own without someone having had cutoff power and reapplied it. (We'll hopefully know in a day or two , when I have time to retest it.) I would hope that indeed, Whirlpool thought that through. You would certainly think so.

Unfortunately, injuries and lawsuits seem to be the major motivators of the Consumer Product Safety Commission, agreed. It would be nice if they were a little more proactive in preventing injuries to begin with.

Yes, I remember the Whirlpool "Bone Specialist" well as I wanted one, very badly. By the time I graduated and got employed, they were out of production, so I was unable to ever purchase one. Hope to find one on eBay or FB marketplace one day. Maybe not they seem to be a rare item.

Yes, I was thinking the same thing, that Whirlpool must have thought the auto-reset would save on service calls. That was the only reason I could figure for that unusual choice. It will, most certainly, save unnecessary service calls, as you mentioned so many people have no clue there is even a reset switch available!
 
I have a Maytag/KA/Jennair disposal I installed in the late 80's that replaced a Maytag from the early 70's.  Both were problem free, no issues at all. At some point I will be replacing my sink, bought a new shredder ring for it a while back and will reinstall for more years of use. Grinds what ever I toss at it.
 
Great experiment and investigative work, Barry.  If I'm reading this correctly, your disposer started suddenly after 4 hours without warning, correct?  I know that you had cycled the power during the cooling down period, but still.....not ideal in my opinion.  I would prefer it not to start until the very moment that the power is cycled AFTER the cut out has reset, regardless of what you've done while it was cooling.  

 

Yes it will be great if you can repeat the experiment and leave the power on until it cools and resets.  

 

I didn't realize that disposers would only run for such short periods even when they are empty and therefore not even under any real load.  Good to know!  And yes I would agree that disposers don't really present a significant risk to the public when compared to other things.  Everyday 5 people are killed in the UK on the roads and a whopping 125 in the USA every single day.  Yet we kind of accept that risk.
 
Cut out

Hi Mark.

Yes, I hope to repeat the experiment today.

What invalidated it was, I had the unit unplugged, wanting to check for power at the outlet, to make sure the breaker hadn't tripped. As I was under the sink, I heard a click and suspected it had then reset itself. Sure enough when I plugged it back in, it restarted.

I will be more patient when I duplicate the experiment this next time. Will let you know what happens.
 
mystery solved!

Thankfully, I was home today and had time to experiment with the disposal. I overheated it, as before, and let the overload protection cut the unit off. Gave it a little extra time, at four and a half hours, with the power having been left on to the unit the whole time, the disposal never came on on it's own. Cycled the on-off switch..nothing

Tried again at five hours,..nothing. At six hours, it still won't restart.

I remembered last time, I heard the auto reset click while I was under the sink, after having pulled the plug to test the power, the click occurred in what seemed to be a short time, about a minute.

Got to thinking, maybe as a safety, there is a device that keeps the auto reset in the cutoff position as long as there is power to the unit. Perhaps a small heating device. I felt under the disposer, which was cool now, but yet there a slight warmth in one area.

So....to test my theory, I unplugged the unit and in approximately sixty to seventy seconds, I heard the auto-reset click, just as before. Just enough time for a little heating device to cool down.

Sure enough, it started right up when power was applied.

The bottom line. When the unit overloads, the thermostatic auto-overliad cuts off power, at the same time a set of contacts must engage a small heating device to keep the thermostatic overload protector warm, so it remains in the open position. Therefore, the unit can never restart as long as power is being supplied.

Once the homeowner turns the disposal off, the heating device gets no power, the bimetallic switch in the overload sensor cools and resets the disposal once the motor has cooled down to the preset temperature. The next time the homeowner turns it on, it stars back up.

As long the little heating device keeps the auto-reset warm, the homeowner is protected from an unexpected restart, even if they accidentally leave the disposal's power switch in the on position.

.

[this post was last edited: 5/22/2024-14:57]
 
Ehhh, not a good design. How many disposer are going to be unnecessarily replaced because the home owner is not aware to cut power to the disposer for the reset to occur? Just put a manual reset button in a logic area on the unit.
 
Good on you for doing this experiment, Barry.  I'm pleased you've been able to shed light on this for us all.  I guess that if you had measured the current flowing through the disposer while tripped, it probably would have been consuming about 10 W the whole time, versus 0 W for the traditional design while tripped (I assume).  And if you'd disconnected the power immediately, it probably would have reset as quickly as your previous disposals.  

 

I wonder how many weeks will pass before ISE reverts to the original tried-and-tested manual-reset design?!  If it ain't broke, don't fix it LOL.  I mean....I get that many people have no idea that the reset button is even there, so in that sense it was "broke" I guess.  I wonder if this new auto reset will indeed give rise to fewer service calls, assuming the auto reset itself isn't going to start acting up in some way.

 

I can't remember if the models sold in the US have the "push red button to reset" label, like the one in reply #5 here in Ireland.  I do find the button difficult to locate, despite the fact that I know it's there.  As Dan said, relocating the button seems like a good idea but I guess they must have discounted doing that for reasons unknown to us.

 

Mark
 
theory

Thanks, Mark

The experiment I did could have been conducted better, but at least I have a theory of operation. Next step is to try to get a schematic and see if my conclusions are correct.

Since this is a new disposal, I can't take it apart for verification, as it will void the warranty.

As you say, it will be interesting to see if Whirlpool decides to keep the auto-reset, or finds it causes more problems than it solved.
Yes, most disposals here have an arrow for the reset button, as yours does, sometimes on the manufacturer's label, sometimes as a peel-off removable label that comes on the new machine.

As you say, they can sometimes be difficult to locate. So many people here in the U.D. don't even know they have a reset button. Often they never bother to read instruction manuals and don't pay any attention to labels on the machine. Your unit has many more labels on it than a typical disposal here.

[this post was last edited: 5/22/2024-22:26]
 
Glad we got to the bottom of it, Barry.  Yep, I doubt much thought is given to the disposer my most people!

 

ISE removable versus fixed baffles:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that any ISE disposer could take either a fixed or a removable baffle.  Regardless of what is supplied with the disposer, I thought that all models needed to have either a fixed baffle or a mounting gasket installed below the sink.  The mounting gasket is the same as the fixed baffle but it only has the outside ring and the centre is empty, so it looks like no baffle has been installed but you do need one or the other.  Then, you can insert a removable baffle in the sink opening (you can actually do this regardless of whether or not you have a fixed baffle installed).  Is that correct or am I wrong or out-of-date now, especially regarding the new models in the US?
 
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