Kenmore/ISE disposal dead?

[reactor]

auto reset

Hi John. That was what the test was for to see if the auto-reset would just come on after a cool down, or if it would require a cycling of the power switch, before it would reset. Whirlpool's operating instructions say to turn power switch off or unplug an air switch before attempting to unjam the unit.

That would provide the cycling of the power, if their auto-reset requires it.

What we are hoping for is the system will not restart on its own without someone having had cutoff power and reapplied it. (We'll hopefully know in a day or two , when I have time to retest it.) I would hope that indeed, Whirlpool thought that through. You would certainly think so.

Unfortunately, injuries and lawsuits seem to be the major motivators of the Consumer Product Safety Commission, agreed. It would be nice if they were a little more proactive in preventing injuries to begin with.

Yes, I remember the Whirlpool "Bone Specialist" well as I wanted one, very badly. By the time I graduated and got employed, they were out of production, so I was unable to ever purchase one. Hope to find one on eBay or FB marketplace one day. Maybe not they seem to be a rare item.

Yes, I was thinking the same thing, that Whirlpool must have thought the auto-reset would save on service calls. That was the only reason I could figure for that unusual choice. It will, most certainly, save unnecessary service calls, as you mentioned so many people have no clue there is even a reset switch available!

 

[mattl]

I have a Maytag/KA/Jennair disposal I installed in the late 80's that replaced a Maytag from the early 70's.  Both were problem free, no issues at all. At some point I will be replacing my sink, bought a new shredder ring for it a while back and will reinstall for more years of use. Grinds what ever I toss at it.

 

[Marky_Mark]

Great experiment and investigative work, Barry.  If I'm reading this correctly, your disposer started suddenly after 4 hours without warning, correct?  I know that you had cycled the power during the cooling down period, but still.....not ideal in my opinion.  I would prefer it not to start until the very moment that the power is cycled AFTER the cut out has reset, regardless of what you've done while it was cooling.  

 

Yes it will be great if you can repeat the experiment and leave the power on until it cools and resets.  

 

I didn't realize that disposers would only run for such short periods even when they are empty and therefore not even under any real load.  Good to know!  And yes I would agree that disposers don't really present a significant risk to the public when compared to other things.  Everyday 5 people are killed in the UK on the roads and a whopping 125 in the USA every single day.  Yet we kind of accept that risk.

 

[reactor]

Cut out

Hi Mark.

Yes, I hope to repeat the experiment today.

What invalidated it was, I had the unit unplugged, wanting to check for power at the outlet, to make sure the breaker hadn't tripped. As I was under the sink, I heard a click and suspected it had then reset itself. Sure enough when I plugged it back in, it restarted.

I will be more patient when I duplicate the experiment this next time. Will let you know what happens.

 

[reactor]

mystery solved!

Thankfully, I was home today and had time to experiment with the disposal. I overheated it, as before, and let the overload protection cut the unit off. Gave it a little extra time, at four and a half hours, with the power having been left on to the unit the whole time, the disposal never came on on it's own. Cycled the on-off switch..nothing

Tried again at five hours,..nothing. At six hours, it still won't restart.

I remembered last time, I heard the auto reset click while I was under the sink, after having pulled the plug to test the power, the click occurred in what seemed to be a short time, about a minute.

Got to thinking, maybe as a safety, there is a device that keeps the auto reset in the cutoff position as long as there is power to the unit. Perhaps a small heating device. I felt under the disposer, which was cool now, but yet there a slight warmth in one area.

So....to test my theory, I unplugged the unit and in approximately sixty to seventy seconds, I heard the auto-reset click, just as before. Just enough time for a little heating device to cool down.

Sure enough, it started right up when power was applied.

The bottom line. When the unit overloads, the thermostatic auto-overliad cuts off power, at the same time a set of contacts must engage a small heating device to keep the thermostatic overload protector warm, so it remains in the open position. Therefore, the unit can never restart as long as power is being supplied.

Once the homeowner turns the disposal off, the heating device gets no power, the bimetallic switch in the overload sensor cools and resets the disposal once the motor has cooled down to the preset temperature. The next time the homeowner turns it on, it stars back up.

As long the little heating device keeps the auto-reset warm, the homeowner is protected from an unexpected restart, even if they accidentally leave the disposal's power switch in the on position.

.

[this post was last edited: 5/22/2024-14:57]

 

[qsd-dan]

Ehhh, not a good design. How many disposer are going to be unnecessarily replaced because the home owner is not aware to cut power to the disposer for the reset to occur? Just put a manual reset button in a logic area on the unit.

 

[Marky_Mark]

Good on you for doing this experiment, Barry.  I'm pleased you've been able to shed light on this for us all.  I guess that if you had measured the current flowing through the disposer while tripped, it probably would have been consuming about 10 W the whole time, versus 0 W for the traditional design while tripped (I assume).  And if you'd disconnected the power immediately, it probably would have reset as quickly as your previous disposals.  

 

I wonder how many weeks will pass before ISE reverts to the original tried-and-tested manual-reset design?!  If it ain't broke, don't fix it LOL.  I mean....I get that many people have no idea that the reset button is even there, so in that sense it was "broke" I guess.  I wonder if this new auto reset will indeed give rise to fewer service calls, assuming the auto reset itself isn't going to start acting up in some way.

 

I can't remember if the models sold in the US have the "push red button to reset" label, like the one in reply #5 here in Ireland.  I do find the button difficult to locate, despite the fact that I know it's there.  As Dan said, relocating the button seems like a good idea but I guess they must have discounted doing that for reasons unknown to us.

 

Mark

 

[reactor]

theory

Thanks, Mark

The experiment I did could have been conducted better, but at least I have a theory of operation. Next step is to try to get a schematic and see if my conclusions are correct.

Since this is a new disposal, I can't take it apart for verification, as it will void the warranty.

As you say, it will be interesting to see if Whirlpool decides to keep the auto-reset, or finds it causes more problems than it solved.
Yes, most disposals here have an arrow for the reset button, as yours does, sometimes on the manufacturer's label, sometimes as a peel-off removable label that comes on the new machine.

As you say, they can sometimes be difficult to locate. So many people here in the U.D. don't even know they have a reset button. Often they never bother to read instruction manuals and don't pay any attention to labels on the machine. Your unit has many more labels on it than a typical disposal here.

[this post was last edited: 5/22/2024-22:26]

 

[suburbanmd]

ISE sink mount

The sink mount on the new ISE models, at least the ones I've looked at, have a removable baffle that can go in the dishwasher. That might make it worth the trouble of changing out the old mount.

 

[Marky_Mark]

Glad we got to the bottom of it, Barry.  Yep, I doubt much thought is given to the disposer my most people!

 

ISE removable versus fixed baffles:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that any ISE disposer could take either a fixed or a removable baffle.  Regardless of what is supplied with the disposer, I thought that all models needed to have either a fixed baffle or a mounting gasket installed below the sink.  The mounting gasket is the same as the fixed baffle but it only has the outside ring and the centre is empty, so it looks like no baffle has been installed but you do need one or the other.  Then, you can insert a removable baffle in the sink opening (you can actually do this regardless of whether or not you have a fixed baffle installed).  Is that correct or am I wrong or out-of-date now, especially regarding the new models in the US?

 

[reactor]

Mark

You are 100 percent correct on the ISE's. The older units used the combination rubber mount with the built in splash guard design.

Later, ISE's came with the resilient mount, with the hole in the center, and the removable splash guard that fit into the flange mount. One could retrofit the older units with the newer resilient ring, and a removable splash guard if they wished to.

The newly redesigned Whirlpools have retained the removable splash guard, and a factory mounted rubber isolation ring on the unit. Even the bottom of the line Badger units have this same configuration.

 

[combo52]

Auto reset circuit breaker on new ISE disposers

We researched this a few days ago and found this is a very well thought out feature. I figured Barry was overreacting. It was ridiculous to contact the consumer product safety commission and bother them with a problem that is nonexistent.

If you had any idea how many thousands of dollars we made Charging customers service calls to go out and push a reset button. This is going to save a huge amount of problems which intern will save a huge amount of energy having people drive to a service call having people throw away perfectly good disposers, etc. etc.

We were the only authorized company service for ISE disposers for a 15 year period in DC proper and garbage disposals are required in DC in all kitchens all restaurants even a 7-Eleven has to have a garbage disposal in DC.

And if you had any idea how much money ISE paid out to pay us to go and reset a circuit breaker it was often very hard to collect on these calls from the customer.

So three cheers to excellent engineering in solving another consumer problem, it’s so simple. You merely have to turn the unit off and when you go back and try it again when it overloads, it will try again and if it doesn’t run, you’ll realize it’s jammed and then you will turn it off and you will try the un jamming wrench and probably solve the problem.

John

 

[reactor]

auto-reset

I had already figured it out, John. Lol. Why are you reiterating what I already posted? Your "research" no doubt, involved reading the results of my experimentation, per Marks suggestions, in the above texts. "Days ago" you were totally unaware, per your own statement, that Whirlpool had even employed an auto-reset overload protection system, until I told you. Glad our research informed you how the new system functions.

Whirlpool's goal, obviously, is to avoid unnecessary service calls.[this post was last edited: 5/24/2024-04:51]

 

[ozzie908]

My ISE 200 Supreme - 1

Has ground to a halt!!!

No amount of trying to move it with the Hex key will work. It had been superb since fitting it 4 years ago up until last week when it stopped grinding for what ever reason I managed to free it a couple of times and it worked flawlessly as it always had then the next day jammed solid, What didn't make any sense was it was completely free and clear as I had left it running way past when it finished grinding with the water running and it was left thinking it was now clear again.

But NO its now jammed solid and I am awaiting the service engineer to determine what's happened as its still under warranty according to ISE when I called them.

Time will tell he is due next week sometime !

 

[reactor]

auto-rest

I had already figured it out, John. Lol. Why are you reiterating what I already posted? Your "research" no doubt, involved reading the results of my experimentation, per Marks suggestions, in the above texts. "Days ago" you were totally unaware, per your own statement, that Whirlpool had even employed an auto-reset overload protection system, until I told you. Glad our research informed you how the new system functions.

Whirlpool's goal, obviously, is to avoid unnecessary service calls.

 

[reactor]

auto-reset

I had already figured it out, John. Lol. Why are you just reiterating what I already posted? Your "research" only involved reading the results of my experimentation, per Marks suggestions, in the above texts.

You said you did your research" days ago. "Days ago" you were totally unaware, per your own statement, that Whirlpool had even employed an auto-reset overload protection system, until I told you. Glad our research taught you how the new system functions.

Whirlpool's goal, obviously, is to avoid unnecessary service calls.

Odd that your favorite company had put out a redesigned disposer and you knew nothing about it, the new design has been out for months. When others take the time to learn about it, and are concerned about a potentially dangerous safety issue you denigrate them and then.pretend you are an expert now.

That's true-to-form behavior for John!
[this post was last edited: 5/24/2024-09:54]

 

[Marky_Mark]

Thanks, Barry.  Good to know that we're free to choose the type of splash guard we want (fixed/removable/quiet collar), regardless of what the ISE disposer in question originally came with.  

 

Austin, please keep us informed!  I imagine ISE will just replace it.  It will be interesting to find out what's happened to it.  I had a problem with my ISE when I lived in Spain, which I had purchased in the UK and taken to Spain.  I contacted ISE in the UK and they passed a message to ISE in Spain, who sent me a new disposer free of charge.  However, they also advised me to try grinding hard bones, as the problem I was having was that the swivel lugs were jammed.  I bought some mixed bones from the supermarket and ground them up.  This fixed the problem and I didn't need to install the new one.

 

[ozzie908]

@markymark

I will let you know what he says if its a component failure its a new one if its jammed from malpractice as they put it.... I have to pay so having never had this happen before I am leaning toward a bearing failure but we will see !!

 

[reactor]

ISE problems

That was good news for you that ISE sent you a replacement disposer, Mark. It sounds as if build up under your impellers took it's toll. Austin, sorry about your disposer. Sounds as if you may have metal to metal contact, locking your turntable. Bearing failure seems like the most plausible cause, either bearing lock or a little too much play in the bearing has allowed your turntable to make contact with the edge of the hopper. There is small clearance there. Hope you get it repaired with no problem.

 

[daveamkrayoguy]

There was a time my original disposal did die and I think it lived a respectable number of years, before I had someone who was able to swap it for the new one and I had to buy a cord for it as well...

The plumbing under the sink had to be redone and each drain was also in need of recaulking... A couple jam-ups did occur, the first I'd called then canceling service for, realizing I only had to use the hex key to free it and realized it during that second time that was all the next failure to start needed (yes I tried the reset button that or both times)...

Curious what would happen if I wind the hex key while the disposal is on, but I see the good reason then not to... Reading above I'm sure there are ways a garbage disposal doesn't seem to garner any kind of legitimate or frivolous lawsuits and I can easily see why that any can be safely and intellectually usedand that they generally are!

-- Dave