KitchenAid on the news

[circlew]

I bought a KitchenAid model KUDR01 several years ago to install in my new kitchen. The kitchen isn't finished yet (for various reasons), so it's still sitting in the carton. Hearing this makes me hesitant to install it; guess I'll wait and see what Whirlpool is going to do about them.

My sister has a Kenmore made by Whirlpool, and often she will start it at bed time or when leaving. Will have to remember to tell her about this issue.

There was a house about 3 or 4 miles from me that burned 5 or so years ago. The owner said she had started the dishwasher before leaving for work. The investigation found that the dishwasher (think they said a GE) had malfunctioned, starting the fire. The large house was in a secluded area, and the home was nearly totally destroyed. The ruins were still there when I went past a year or so ago.

 

[alr2903]

I just don't understand

When was it decided that  a circuit board was needed for dw, w/d?  I understand the reasoning on a microwave every second counts. It just seems so strange that so many models (most) now have this setup.  Most of us here have used mechanical timer machines for decades.The only way to get a mechanical thermostat dial on an oven is to go BOL,  oddly these electronics are placed directly over the vents for the oven. IMHO, heat and moisture are not your friend, if you are electronic.  alr  

 

[DirectDriveDave]

I'm guessing maybe it was designed right since it was made back in 1989, but the electronics for our GE oven are right over the vent, they still work.

 

[mrb627]

Circuit Boards

A Circuit Board is only as reliable as the parts soldered to it.

I suppose if Whirlpool had more control of the board manufacture, they wouldn't have these problems.

Look at Miele for goodness sake, they control everything and rarely have any sort of problem. Never heard of anything widespread, at least.

Malcolm

 

[seeitrun2006]

My Whirlpool DU1005XTSB1

I just remembered when someone said something about over heated plastic. We when run our DW at the end of the drying cycle (Normal cycle, heated dry) there always is an odor in the kitchen as if something plastic has fallen thru onto the heating element. My wife just commented on it Wednesday night. I am forever opening the DW during the drying cycle to make sure nothing has fallen thru.

It really has me wondering now where the smell is coming from. The smell is not coming from the steam vent in the door. It is just an odor in the kitchen near the DW. After the DW cools off the smell goes away. Should I call to have it serviced?

GRRRRRRRRR! I hate having appliances that I have to watch like a hawk!

 

[mark_wpduet]

Well

I have a WP tall tub that's just a few steps UP for BOL. It's half console push button & almost 7 yrs old. Never had any problems with it BUT I do notice that when I touch the control panel (even if it hasn't been operated for a few days), it's warm to the touch & it has always been that way since the day I got it. I've always thought that was ODD. Now I'm wondering if it's going to catch fire sometime. Some of those dishwashers in the video were up to ten years old they said when they caught fire.

 

[electronicontrl]

Additional info

This Consumer Reports link refers to the kitchenaidfire.com site info, and more.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/03/appliance-fires-is-your-home-safe.html?EXTKEY=NW0S01202

 

[combo52]

CR article about flambible appliances

This was one of the worst articles that I have seen in a long time in CRs. It was poorly written and researched and not proof read. I wish they would spend 7 pages of space to talk about actual appliances tests. I sat here and read this whole article and found it about useless. They even quoted the woman who had a  [ condenser ]  catch fire on her WP refrigerator, condensers are nothing but steel tubing, they cannot catch fire let alone burn. I thought that this was not up CRs standards, as they didn't suggest any real solutions. One of the most dangerous home appliances in the home today are these STUPID over the range microwave ovens. All one has to do is leave a gas or electric element on high without a pan on it or have what you are cooking catch fire and you are almost guaranteed a fire or at the very least a lot of property damage. I have for over 20 years consoled customers not to install these DANGEROUS MWs over a heat source, yet CRs continues to test and recommend this appliance.

 

[mysteryclock]

Our Kitchenaid

Well....had a little problem with the ca. 2004 KA TT dishwasher again. Several actually. After having basically the whole thing (fill valve, pump, control board, dispenser) replaced last summer and then more repairs (some duplicate) again in the fall, I came out yesterday morning to unload it and discovered the tub full of water. Re-starting the drain cycle didn't get much out, so clearly something was wrong.

Add to this the fact that for the past few weeks I ~thought~ I'd noticed a burning smell coming from it and the control panel feeling warmer than usual, and I finally realized it was time for yet another service call under its extended warranty.

Well the fellow came out today and managed to get it to drain somehow, but decided to check on the burning smell issue first since that was an easy reach compared to disassembling to get to the pump. As soon as he popped the control panel open he yelled "Hey, you need to see this!" Below is what we saw.

The power connector / board interface had gotten so hot that one of pins on the board had either burnt loose or de-soldered itself and was stuck in the melted connector. It really is a miracle the whole thing didn't go up and result in *FIERY DEATH* for everyone here. It even scorched all the way up the power leads into the connector too!

So while the technician is in there shaking his head trying to figure out what he's going to have to replace this time (control board, wiring harness, thermal fuse, etc, etc.) I'm on the phone with the warranty company telling them "I want this thing out of my house before it kills someone."

Fortunately I finally got through to someone who took one look at my service history and helpfully opined that they probably should have replaced it last year after 4 trips out in July-August (*now* they tell me?) So they issued me a credit @ Sears and I ordered a brand new Bosch unit with an internal softener, which should really help with our rock-hard water in Middle TN.

So the moral of the story here is - if your control panel feels hot / hotter than usual or you even think you smell hot wires, unplug and investigate immediately.

I foresee a class-action lawsuit...that will probably result in all of us getting a box of Finish Powerball tabs and the lawyers getting $100m.

 

[qualin]

Oh wow.. That happened either due to a poorly manufactured connector, or perhaps there was an over current condition which caused that.

It takes a LOT to set a circuit board on fire. (I know, I've tried it.)

The connector and wiring is a greater concern..

The white connector below it is a Molex connector, those are rock solid.

This is an engineering decision, someone decided to cut costs. Ultimately the consumer has to pay for it.

I'm really surprised to hear your KA was such a lemon. Good thing you had a warranty on it and that it didn't cost you all that much to get it replaced.

 

[mysteryclock]

Interesting thing is, this is the ~second~ control board to die. The original one made it until last July until it was just electrically dead, but it showed no obvious signs of burning, etc. This one only made it 6 1/2 months before doing this! Since this one came out of a more recent manufacturing run (it was a different color than the first one IIRC) I'm wondering if there is some change they made since 2004 which caused this to happen and that could be responsible for the other incidents we keep hearing about? I've seen blown caps on a board before, but the only other time I've seen a melted power connection was on an electric kids car we got from a friend of ours, and *that* connector was hooked up to a gigantic, heavy battery (a big DC power source.) In all my years working with computers I've never seen a power lead do this. And even with blown caps I've never seen them de-solder themselves.

The fact that the scorching / arcing had continued all the way up through the connector on the the brown (?) wire is particularly alarming.

Here's hoping the Bosch is better. I'm really exited to get a DW with a softener, so I don't have to add STPP or LemiShine with every load.

 

[mysteryclock]

Update - the new Bosch is installed! This is the ADA version which was the only one with a built-in softener available from Sears (where we had replacement credit) so the tub is about 2-3" shorter than the old KA. Everything except our big pasta-cooker insert for the stock pot seems to fit just fine w/o having to remove the top rack. Being a little higher does make loading / unloading easier!

Didn't realize that most Euro-style DWs are actually shallower than US ones but again, that doesn't seem to impact capacity except for really oversized items and isn't an issue.

Design is excellent - love the little combo top rack pull & tab-tray where the detergent tab can land and dissolve completely w/o sticking to the door or the silverware basket. And final rinse temps, softener level, rinse-aid level and power options can all be adjusted electronically from the control panel.

Performance is also great - everything is coming out squeaky clean and completely streak & spot free. Even glasses put in the farthest corners of the top rack are perfect w/o any "crumbles", which the old KA was never good at even when new. And it is very quiet to boot!

The only minor downside of all this high performance and energy efficiency is cycle time - it is LONG! The old KA would blast through a load in 60-90 minutes even with Sani selected, no matter how grimy it was. The Bosch on "Automatic" took 2:20-ish with a full load and Sanitize. There is a timed (not sensor-driven) "Express" cycle that'll run in 30 minutes flat that also does a good job and would be a viable option during a party, etc.


Recommended.



http://www.bosch-home.com/us/SGE63E15UC.html

 

[combo52]

New Dishwasher

Congratulations on your new DW, I love the idea of the built-in water softener, I wish more DWs would offer this option.

 

I do find the smaller interior size on the three European style DWs that I have had to be a big drawback, any DW I have I always wish it were a little bigger as a try to pack more into it. I also never want another DW with a filter as I an far too spoiled with the older WP Power-Clean machines I have. When I load I do not even scrape off the dishes, I just turn them side ways and if it falls into the disposer great, other wise it goes into the DW.

 

In the last two days I sold four new DWs [ all WP ] and  three of the ones being replaced are Bosch machines all under 10 years of age. KitchenAid is not the only company having trouble with DWs [ Bosch is also in the middle of a recall for DW fires ]. If any one wants any used Bosch DWs or parts of contact me, I also saw a three year old really nice looking Miele all SS DW on the junk pile yesterday that I can get cheap if someone wants it.

 

[48bencix]

Mechanical Timer

I really think the problem stems from two things: 1. No mechanical timer, so there is an electronic board to control everything. More components with the possibility of failure. 2. The board is always on ready to accept a new command. Some more expensive machines seem to have more reliable boards, but usually have a manual clean filter, which I find pretty gross.

At least with the mechanical timer, when it was off, it was off.

If I could get a new dishwasher with mechanical timer, nylon racks and a self cleaning filter, I might get one. I still have my 10 year old Ultrawash, but the racks, being pvc coated are pretty bad. At least it won't burn down my house, which I could care less about, I just don't want to die or have my pets or partner die in the fire.

Martin

 

[hunter]

cycle time variations

I'd be curious to find out if your cycle time will vary.

On my Bosch, when I start it up as an Autowash with Sanitize, it starts at at 143 minutes (2 hours, 23 minutes). But it then senses the dirt in the water, and adjusts, usually to between 80 and 100 minutes.

Does yours do the same?

 

[mysteryclock]

Yes, mine with Autowash and Sanitize starts out at 3:00 but seems to get done in 30-45 less than that, so far. Clearly my dishes must have less gunk than the ones the engineers test with!