Looking for opinions

[washman]

I've been searching for new digs for almost a year now. Frustrated by overpriced, underwhelming homes in my town, I branched out my search on Realtor.com. I found this house in the link below, but it has been on the market for 200 days. The town it is located in is about 15 minutes due north of where I currently live. I have generally found that a home that sits on the market here for more than 6 months means it is either way overpriced OR it has serious deficiencies.

Some things that give me pause:

1. Well water. I grew up on it in Indiana but can't say that I really miss it. At least this has a water softener. Also no water bills and I can use the 2nd rinse to my heart's content! Question is, how good is the well? And in the future, is city water an option?
2. Baseboard electric heat. In fact, the whole house is electric. No gas bill but does anyone have experience with baseboard electric heat? From what I briefly read, it is expensive. However being a rather small 3 bed home, I would assume it can be shut off or turned down on a room by room basis. One advantage is no HVAC repairs. Looks like it comes with 2 window unit AC.
3. resale, I'm not looking to buy and flip and make gobs of money. In fact, I am looking long term here.
4. The home was built in 1995 so it is reasonable to assume modern windows and insulation.

What is holding me back from buying the so-called turn key house is money. As in lack of buku bucks for a down payment. My credit score is A-1 and I can borrow believe it or not about 240 grand. I found anything less than 20 per cent down, you get hit with effing PMI. What a crock. Also I have found that taxes, which I will roll into the mortgage, can really jack up the payment. In this house, the taxes are very reasonable due to location away from my city. Finally, I refuse to have a mortgage that makes me house rich, cash poor. Not gonna happen. I have to be able to pay for this when I am retired. And I have to be able to buy name brand liquid detergent.

I'm going up Saturday to have a look. Also will ask realtor for 12 month electric bill history. The baseboard heat really concerns me.

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/317-N-Main-St_Harrisville-Boro_PA_16038_M35803-49651?row=55

 

[rp2813]

OMG.

 

You can't even buy a decent trailer around here for that amount.  As a result, it's hard for me to relate to ending up cash poor. 

 

One thing you can likely count on is higher property taxes, assuming you didn't pay $118K for your current place.  Paying them through an impound account means that even with a fixed rate mortgage, your payment is likely to change each year, and your lender will require you to maintain a minimum amount in the impound account that will steadily increase.  When that amount goes up, you'll either have to even things up with a single payment, or tack it on to each monthly mortgage payment -- in addition to the impound payment you're already making.

 

We bought my sister's interest out of my parents' place because taxes were rolled back with Proposition 13, and I could take advantage of a parent-to-child transfer clause, then follow up and add Dave onto the deed without any re-assessment.  Taxes are low enough that we can write a check twice a year rather than do it through an impound account.  That was the primary motivation for moving into this place.  We're also allowed to move once and take that same tax rate with us.  It was a strategic financial move and the shortcomings of living in this 90 year-old house (with original kitchen) are part of the "price" we're paying, but it's worth it.  We still have to keep reminding ourselves, though.

 

At our previous house, taxes were much higher.  We had both property tax and homeowners insurance paid out of an impound account, and every year our payment went up, even with a fixed rate.

 

Again, working with $118K, your tax and insurance figures aren't nearly as high as what we were dealing with at our other place, or even where we are now -- at least as far as insurance is concerned.    We couldn't have afforded to buy our last house considering what it was worth when we sold it.  Same with this one, since we bought my sister out for less than half its value.  Our monthly payment on a 30-year fixed at 3.5%  is still almost three times what's shown on the listing you linked to, and everybody's jaw drops when we tell them.  Not because it's so high.  Because it's ridiculously low.

 

 

 

[artcurus]

1. Well water can be a blessing or a curse. My cousin and her kids live in Lubbock, they are on a well, and that water is OMG Manna from Heaven good, its the most smoothest tasting water I've ever experienced. The only way to find out if the well water is good is taste it. As for city water, you need to take that up with the closest municipality.

2. If the baseboard heat is effective, you can zone it and keep the cost down. However, the cost of actually putting in a real HVAC system, especially if you plan on staying there, would be well worth it in the long run. Plus it will help the resale value later if you do actually sell it.

3. On the serious side, if a nat gas connection is available and really want to save money, dump that on-demand water heater, and install a nat gas tankless. It will pretty much also pay for itself in the long run.

 

[alr2903]

pitch Low.

Washman,    20 years ago natural gas and city water may not have been available and the current owner may have decided not to opt into those services.   If that's the case you can always make an offer  appropriate for you, not what some realtor is dreaming of.  I wish you the best!

 

[xraytech]

with your well water concerns, I too grew up on well water, mom has a very high yielding well so water consumption was never a worry even in a dry summer, it was also good tasting water.
If you decide on this house the bank should require a test on the well during home inspection to see what it is yielding.
As for city water ever coming through I'd take note of how populated the neighborhood is, If there are very few houses and they are very spread out then city water could be in the very very distant future.

I grew up in an all electric home, but with an electric furnace, the electric bill there is like $300 a month. However with baseboard heat it is typically controlled room by room so you can keep the heat off or on a very low temp in bedrooms you don't use.

Just curious have you considered looking south of Pittsburgh and the airport? tax rates are reasonable in Washington county

 

[whirlcool]

You could always add a cistern and wind driven pump for the water if the flow is low.
We have well water here, and it is much better than the local city water is, however it is very hard. But it tastes so much better and when you hold your glass up to the light it looks so much clearer too. Nothing is floating around in it.

We lived in a (2BR) condo in Chicago that was a 1974 build that had baseboard electric heat. I loved it. Each room had it's own individual control and you could keep each room exactly how you wanted it. The only downside I had with it was that it was a very dry heat. You really needed to use a humidifier with it to prevent a constant case of cracked lips, winter itch, etc.

That basement looks like it would offer good protection against tornadoes. Seems solidly built wit thick walls.

At that price and area I would go look at it (seems like a pretty nice home) and pay attention to the surrounding neighborhood. There are some areas not too far away that are not so nice.

 

[norgeway]

Baseboard Heat!

In a well insulated house, it would be my all time favorite, for a number of reasons,1 would be almost no maintenance issues, I know of several houses that had baseboard installed in the 60s , and have never had even a thermostat replaced, the higher cost of electricity is more than offset by this...think for a minute how many gas or oil furnaces are still running after 40 or 50 years...some to be sure, but you can bet they had money spent on them every year...no 2, NO DUST!!! Blowing air always stirs up dust,,3..QUIET, no motors no fans, no roaring burners,4 you can individually control the temp in each room...so don't knock baseboard heat, you might find in the long run its fairly economical.

 

[mitch]

Looks good!

I understand your being hesitant with the well water. We lived in a rural area for a few years with a well in a total electric home and a power loss pretty much put you back in pioneer days! Is there a fireplace?

The other thing to consider is if the house is on a well then I would assume a septic tank as well. You may want to ask your realtor about any information in regards to maintenance and/or repairs to the septic system. If the house is 10 years old, it is "probably" due to have the tank pumped.

It is a nice looking place--love the countryside!

Good luck!!
Mitch

 

[countryguy]

Since the home has a well does that mean there is also a septic system or is it on city sewage?

My home had electric heat and I hated it. Hydro rates here are very high so it was very expensive and no matter how high I turned the thermostat I still felt cold. I was paying equal monthly payments of $240 plus I also heated with a wood stove part time. I'm sure it would be well over $300/month now. As previously said it is a dry heat and a humidifier would be needed. My home is well insulated and has all new windows and doors but still I hated the electric heat. I got rid of it and replaced it with a hot water radiant system which I much prefer.

I am also on a well. I have a whole house water filter to ensure no sediment gets into the pipes but no water softer as the water is not hard. I get the occasional rotten egg smell but it doesn't bother me any more...maybe I am used to it.

Gary

 

[washer111]

My several cents, as useless as they may be due to my location...

~ Well water: Well, rainwater is the norm if you're off the 'muni' water in Australia, AFAIK. Thats good stuff. We're in a location that uses 100% groundwater, and its 25 grains. Before fixing our nearly 30 y/o water softener (with a Fleck 5600 head - still manufactured, and still very durable), kettles lasted about 8 months... Water heaters need anodes frequently. Not fun!
I hear that water can reach nearly 100 grains in the U.S. in particularly "rocky" areas in the middle of nowhere. I think most of the U.S. hands around 10-30 grains from the maps I saw, although it *can* vary greatly (localised).
We had a well put in for the garden, I'll get the figures, but the little tank we have can only be filled about halfway before the pump must be switched off for at least 20 minutes, but generally more.

~ Electric heat: Many Norwegian homes have electric heating in the floors. One family member installed it into his house NEW in the 1980s. Completely throughout the basement and entrance foyer, plus the bathroom. It is NEVER used, except in the bathroom on a low-heat. Exceedingly expensive to operate, although exceedingly effective(!!!)

~ Septic tank: This is all well and good, but using the SQ may dump too much water into the system, or may damage the chemistry and prevent the system working properly. Make sure the leech drain is completely clear, and the main line is unblocked. Some family of mine living in a rural area has to deal with stopped up sinks and toilets as the leech drain has been left unmaintained, and tree roots get in...
According to a co-worker who used to own a tavern, they're also useless if you've got lots of people drinking and then using the toilet. Something about the alcohol killing the bacteria? So watch what chemicals you use!

 

[washman]

The place

is city sewer, no septic.

 

[washman]

for xraytech

I work in Butler so I don't want to take on a lengthy drive to work.

 

[warmsecondrinse]

Random thoughts, mostly from "been there, done that" perspective... either my own or friends'. Reasoning for the following weirdness available upon request

1. All electric means you must have back up for power failures, esp for water, sewer?, morning coffee and morning shower. Is natural gas available? If not, check LP prices. My friends found that an LP generator was the bargain route for them.

2. How's the house's suitability for solar?

3. Draughts more noticeable w/electric baseboard. check how much air comes in through light switches, outlets, etc.

4. How well-heated is garage? Floor above it will be cold unless it is very well insulated.

5. how much insulation is in attic? easy access to add more?

6. how accessible is the underside of main level floor from basement? Electric radiant heat is easy to install. Warm floors = warm feet = cozy comfy at lower temps. same can be done to basement floor depending on what's over the concrete.

7. How well insulated is basement? How easy is it to add more? were walls sealed prior to having been finished? have proof? signs of mold in basement?

8. the more air-tight a house is, the more important ventilation is. is there a working exhaust fan somewhere?

9. 2 a/c units? where are they? come with house? voltage? if 120v, have own circuits?

10. will need dehumidifier in warm weather and likely humidifier in cold.

11. Any problems (structural or zoning) installing fireplace on main level and in basement?

12. ditto wood stove for cooking in kitchen

13. garage have separate heat and ventilation?

14. Hooking into #1, what are propane costs in area if gas not available?

Just realized time. off to work for me. more later if you want

Jim

 

[danemodsandy]

Well Water:

The water itself can be great, but just bear two things in mind:

1) When there's a problem with the pump or other parts of the system, it's your problem, no one else's.

2) Well water is not fluoridated, which means you need fluoride treatments of some kind to maintain your teeth. (Please don't anyone assail me with the evils of fluoride; I have been on a well and had dental problems stemming from lack of fluoride).

As to the house itself, I get a strong feeling of lackadaisical maintenance from the photo. Foundation plantings are way overgrown, the walkway hasn't been edged in years and those front steps look cheap, rickety and in disrepair. As you look at the house, remember that they're like icebergs - only some of what's going on shows; there's a lot more under the surface.

 

[alr2903]

It would not hurt to check on the "sewer" bill, ours has the trash pickup fee, and also 5 bucks for mosquito control. Its always good to scout out the area at different times of day  and a big bonus is if you some older retired folks out in their yard.  They will give you the 411.  When we moved here I got a lot of valuable information from my late neighbor lady.  I really miss her.

 

[twintubdexter]

Friend Ralph's OMG comment at the start of this topic is exactly the way I feel. $118K does "buy" you a mobile home here in the Desert but the space rental can kill you and there's always the possibility the park will be sold out from under you. Everyone thinks of San Francisco and Manhattan as having super-high rental and property prices but my hometown of San Jose is not far behind. I recently talked to an old friend who rents a dated, 700 sq ft, 1 bed/bath apartment in the southern outskirts of SJ...$2,200 per month...$26,400 in rent receipts to frame and hang on the wall at the end of the year. The old adage "you can never go home again" applies double for me.

 

[blackstone]

Direct-Vent Gas Stoves for Heat

On the subject of a heating system that is not central, consider the direct-vent gas stoves. I do not have a furnace in my house; just a number of these type of heaters. They work great. There are many different models with different features. I have all Hearthstone brand stoves. Mine are natural gas, but they are also available for propane.

 

[chaik76]

Hi, there! I live in PA, in a similar-sized house that cost a similar amount. We have electric baseboard heat in an all-electric house. We haven't had too many problems with power outages over the years, and we keep a kerosene heater on hand just in case. The only bad power outage we had we borrowed a friend's generator for a few days.

Our electric can cost upwards of $350/mo, with around $210 of that going towards heat costs in winter. Each room has a separate thermostat, which means that we can keep each room at whatever heat we prefer. We keep the heat on in only three rooms. One of main problems with the baseboards are that they limit wall space...you can't put anything against the walls where there is baseboard heat. As our thermostats have needed replaced we've actually chosen not to do so, but to instead get either forced air space heaters or oil-filled radiators. Our house was built in 1968, so your insulation might be better, meaning that your bills will be lower.

Well water totally depends...we have city water right now and it is icky. My mom has city water and it tastes soooo good. My in-laws love their well water; but it is very mineral-y and you can actually -smell- the minerals on their dishware and glasses and in their ice. An acquired taste, I guess. There's no doubt that they are all healthy as horses; maybe their water contributes to that.

Whatever you decide, good luck!

 

[washman]

Probably going to pass.......for now

I am ambivalent about the baseboard heat limiting furniture placement along with the cost during the winter.

The town is basically a collection of houses and a Sheetz convenience store.

I'm looking at a provincial split entry that has been redone and is empty but seller wants 148K. I have appointment tonight at 5:30. My realtor will do a lien search on it and it if is paid off, might have some negotiating room. Maybe.

I'll keep the OP house in mind in case I cannot make a deal work here locally.

I know for some 7-800/month is ok but that is usually for two income households and I am solo here. And I refuse to be house rich, cash poor.