Maytag 712 Nearly Stops During Spray Rinse (Revisited)
- Thread starter rp2813
- Start date
Help Support :
Thanks Dan. No, I did not check the pump belt but I will because the situation you described makes perfect common sense. It seems to pump out with the same force that it did before I installed the new belt, but I definitely want that belt tensioned per Maytag's guidelines so will hold the motor back and give it the squeeze check, and will adjust if necessary.
something to consider as well......drain hose length...the shortest straight run is usually best....
Thanks Martin. The drain hose is the original. Since the laundry sink is to the left of the machine and the left-front corner of the machine and the corner of the laundry sink are almost touching, I have the hose routed across the top rear of the cabinet and around the the side to the sink. I had to add an aluminum gooseneck fitting to get it to hook over the corner of the sink, so that's only a few inches of extra length.
Again, the picture is configured differently here from the way I shot it with my iPhone. A.I. is grossly overrated.
Again, the picture is configured differently here from the way I shot it with my iPhone. A.I. is grossly overrated.
I have this same problem 7 out of 10 times with my A407 when doing laundry, it will suds lock. Drove me crazy for the longest time and I tried new belts, less detergent, etc and finally came to the conclusion my stand pipe is simply too high. So I had a friend make me a 12" tall wood base to mount the machine on. But I have to wait until I do the major overhaul so we can hump it on there and forget it. The issue is so bad each time I do clothes I set an egg timer for 11 mins so Im in the basement when it goes into rinse/spin mode to prepare for suds lock should it happen.
I see and understand your configuration.....may not be a big issue, but you do have sort of a "S" trap using that metal hook...during full force pump out you wouldn't see a problem, but nearing the end when the pump froths up suds...there can be a chance of an air lock...
in any event, you can take two machines, and get two different reactions from the same situation...
speaking of suds froth....keep in mind the pump is running during agitation, frothing up suds into the outter tub, more than the agitation alone.....ie, if you ever had the front off of a direct drive machine with the plastic outter tub....amazing what you will see that pump stirring up...
in any event, you can take two machines, and get two different reactions from the same situation...
speaking of suds froth....keep in mind the pump is running during agitation, frothing up suds into the outter tub, more than the agitation alone.....ie, if you ever had the front off of a direct drive machine with the plastic outter tub....amazing what you will see that pump stirring up...
Yeah, there was no way to use the hooked end of the hose over the side of the sink as I had hoped. I can see how an air pocket could form. I like the beefy original drain hose, but I suppose a more flexible aftermarket replacement hose might be easier to hook onto the sink and eliminate the S curve arrangement.
I found a Newton belt on ebay. Is there any reason to think it's not as genuine as it appears?
As an eBay Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
Thanks Dan. Even though the belt resembles a true Maytag part, my tendency is not to trust anything that was branded as "Maytag" after Whirlpool took over. I'll keep looking for something that's older stock.
Interesting the suspicion on Maytag-number part items in FSP packaging. Whirlpool has owned Maytag for 14 years. I have a box of tub bearings, stem/boot seal kits, belts, and 6-0A57420 agitator seals in said packaging. Also various Neptune items. Used one of the bearings & seal/boot kits on a friend's LAT9406 11 years ago, haven't thus far heard from him of any trouble on that repair.
I checked the pump belt and it's properly adjusted.
I just finished running the flannel sheet set through another full cycle without any detergent as a means to eliminate suds as the culprit. The slowing and sloshing sound happened again during the spray rinse, but it was again fairly brief and again slowing was minimal -- nothing so pronounced as it was before installing the new drive belt. I noticed that the flow out of the drain hose was reduced when the slowing and sloshing began. After about ten seconds, there was a surge out of the drain hose, the sloshing sound stopped and the spin quickly recovered to maximum speed.
Also, I have the cold tap adjusted to less than fully open in order to get a truly warm mixture instead of barely tepid, so the always-cold spray rinse isn't even producing maximum volume for the pump to handle.
Since both spin drain sequences have always executed perfectly, I think we can eliminate the possibility of a foreign item being stuck between the two tubs. I also tend to think this has little or nothing to do with sudsing. There were hardly any suds other than the small amount that didn't get completely rinsed out of the sheets yesterday, and for extra measure I had also used fabric softener when I washed them yesterday.
I don't think the "S" curve at the end of the drain hose is compromising the flow. What I don't understand is why the pump performs as it should during both of the spin drain sequences and only slows during the spray rinse, which generates a far smaller volume of water for the pump to move.
I'm a little skeptical about a new pump resolving the problem. If this bit of slowing is as bad as it gets, I think I can live with it, but welcome any additional troubleshooting suggestions.
I just finished running the flannel sheet set through another full cycle without any detergent as a means to eliminate suds as the culprit. The slowing and sloshing sound happened again during the spray rinse, but it was again fairly brief and again slowing was minimal -- nothing so pronounced as it was before installing the new drive belt. I noticed that the flow out of the drain hose was reduced when the slowing and sloshing began. After about ten seconds, there was a surge out of the drain hose, the sloshing sound stopped and the spin quickly recovered to maximum speed.
Also, I have the cold tap adjusted to less than fully open in order to get a truly warm mixture instead of barely tepid, so the always-cold spray rinse isn't even producing maximum volume for the pump to handle.
Since both spin drain sequences have always executed perfectly, I think we can eliminate the possibility of a foreign item being stuck between the two tubs. I also tend to think this has little or nothing to do with sudsing. There were hardly any suds other than the small amount that didn't get completely rinsed out of the sheets yesterday, and for extra measure I had also used fabric softener when I washed them yesterday.
I don't think the "S" curve at the end of the drain hose is compromising the flow. What I don't understand is why the pump performs as it should during both of the spin drain sequences and only slows during the spray rinse, which generates a far smaller volume of water for the pump to move.
I'm a little skeptical about a new pump resolving the problem. If this bit of slowing is as bad as it gets, I think I can live with it, but welcome any additional troubleshooting suggestions.
Ralph - can you confirm if you are using the original, rigid drain hose that would have come with the A712? If so, and seeing how the drain hose terminates with the added gooseneck on the left side of the machine, level to about where the syphon break is fastened to the back righthand side of the cabinet, I suspect John's thoughts about an air pocket causing issues could be one of the root causes of the slowdown during the spray rinse.
Ben
Ben
may be unwarranted, but I think I would swap out a pump to see if there is a difference, you checked everything else, what have you got to lose at this point....
I had a FilterFlo years ago, not so much of a suds lock issue, or even spray rinse....but once the tub was empty, and it ramped to full speed, now your getting the excess water from the clothes, for some odd reason the pumping stopped, water would slosh around....you had to stop the machine, and then restart to get the rest of the water to pump out....
I was checking and changing everything to no avail of change.....finally I installed a new pump, and all worked like it should......
there didn't seem to be anything wrong with the original pump....how or why it started to act up, who knows....just a wonky thing to happen....
I could have investigated further, as either re-installing the old pump, or onto another machine to see if the issue returned.....but at this point, the new one worked, and just tossed the old one...
your machine should also have that built in airgap....wonder if that is not sealing/opening properly, causing an airlock issue, then the pump has to build up enough water to push that air through...anything is possible at this point
I had a FilterFlo years ago, not so much of a suds lock issue, or even spray rinse....but once the tub was empty, and it ramped to full speed, now your getting the excess water from the clothes, for some odd reason the pumping stopped, water would slosh around....you had to stop the machine, and then restart to get the rest of the water to pump out....
I was checking and changing everything to no avail of change.....finally I installed a new pump, and all worked like it should......
there didn't seem to be anything wrong with the original pump....how or why it started to act up, who knows....just a wonky thing to happen....
I could have investigated further, as either re-installing the old pump, or onto another machine to see if the issue returned.....but at this point, the new one worked, and just tossed the old one...
your machine should also have that built in airgap....wonder if that is not sealing/opening properly, causing an airlock issue, then the pump has to build up enough water to push that air through...anything is possible at this point
Hi Ben, yes you've sized up the drain hose arrangement precisely. It's the original rigid hose, which is why it can't be coaxed to hang over the side of the sink. Routing it across the back and around the side causes the hook in the end of the hose to aim in an upward direction, which necessitates the extra aluminum piece.
It hadn't occurred to me that it would make any difference if the hose was routed in a way that it would remain at the same height as the siphon break, but it's making more sense than ever now. At our previous home, I had installed a standpipe for the hose to empty into, the hose was properly configured, and there was no need for the aluminum fitting. Coincidentally, I don't recall ever having this issue with slowing during spray rinse then, or ever having to babysit the machine. I think it's time to locate an aftermarket drain hose that's longer than average in order to facilitate the drop below the siphon break.
Martin, I'm still not sure about the pump being the problem. I ran a couple of rubber-backed throw rugs through the machine a little while ago. I used Oxy-clean HE liquid conservatively, and just the process of filling the tub created a decent suds cake, which I attribute to detergent residue in the rugs from prior washings. I had selected slow wash/fast spin so there was no visible oversudsing during the wash cycle. I was prepared for problems when the spin drain/spray rinse sequence launched, but instead the spray rinse completed without any slowdown or sloshing despite the evidence of potential for a suds lock. I don't think this is a suds issue or a pump issue. It's sounding like a drain hose issue. An aftermarket hose shouldn't be too hard to find and would cost less than a pump, so that's what I'll try next.
It hadn't occurred to me that it would make any difference if the hose was routed in a way that it would remain at the same height as the siphon break, but it's making more sense than ever now. At our previous home, I had installed a standpipe for the hose to empty into, the hose was properly configured, and there was no need for the aluminum fitting. Coincidentally, I don't recall ever having this issue with slowing during spray rinse then, or ever having to babysit the machine. I think it's time to locate an aftermarket drain hose that's longer than average in order to facilitate the drop below the siphon break.
Martin, I'm still not sure about the pump being the problem. I ran a couple of rubber-backed throw rugs through the machine a little while ago. I used Oxy-clean HE liquid conservatively, and just the process of filling the tub created a decent suds cake, which I attribute to detergent residue in the rugs from prior washings. I had selected slow wash/fast spin so there was no visible oversudsing during the wash cycle. I was prepared for problems when the spin drain/spray rinse sequence launched, but instead the spray rinse completed without any slowdown or sloshing despite the evidence of potential for a suds lock. I don't think this is a suds issue or a pump issue. It's sounding like a drain hose issue. An aftermarket hose shouldn't be too hard to find and would cost less than a pump, so that's what I'll try next.
I faintly remember reading somewhere in my Maytag material about allowing washers with a siphon valve extra time for a full spin out during testing purposes, which all 11 series through early LAT machines were equipped with from the factory. Not sure if it's the function of the valve or the valve itself that causes a restriction. It may be a good idea to bypass it completely and run a hose directly from the pump outlet port straight out the the back of the machine like the older models did (you'll have to remove the rear access panel cover to feed the hose through). Just a thought.
Thanks for sharing that option Dan. This would for sure require a longer hose, as exiting out the bottom of the machine would add about three more feet to the distance the hose would need to cover. Seems like a longer hose is the next thing to try, with or without bypassing the siphon valve.
I guess other manufacturers were using these valves long before Maytag. My mom's '74 Kenmore had one -- or I assume it did since the drain hose connected at top left on the back of the machine.
I guess other manufacturers were using these valves long before Maytag. My mom's '74 Kenmore had one -- or I assume it did since the drain hose connected at top left on the back of the machine.
Just remember if by some chance the hose falls to floor level after siphon valve is removed that it will gravity drain everywhere.
how about capping off the siphon valve to seal it off ?.....
just use a rubber tip for a cane in the proper size and a worm drive clamp....
just use a rubber tip for a cane in the proper size and a worm drive clamp....
