Maytag 712 Nearly Stops During Spray Rinse (Revisited)

[rp2813]

I checked the pump belt and it's properly adjusted.

 

I just finished running the flannel sheet set through another full cycle without any detergent as a means to eliminate suds as the culprit.  The slowing and sloshing sound happened again during the spray rinse, but it was again fairly brief and again slowing was minimal -- nothing so pronounced as it was before installing the new drive belt.  I noticed that the flow out of the drain hose was reduced when the slowing and sloshing began.  After about ten seconds, there was a surge out of the drain hose, the sloshing sound stopped and the spin quickly recovered to maximum speed.

 

Also, I have the cold tap adjusted to less than fully open in order to get a truly warm mixture instead of barely tepid, so the always-cold spray rinse isn't even producing maximum volume for the pump to handle.

 

Since both spin drain sequences have always executed perfectly, I think we can eliminate the possibility of a foreign item being stuck between the two tubs.  I also tend to think this has little or nothing to do with sudsing.  There were hardly any suds other than the small amount that didn't get completely rinsed out of the sheets yesterday, and for extra measure I had also used fabric softener when I washed them yesterday.

 

I don't think the "S" curve at the end of the drain hose is compromising the flow.  What I don't understand is why the pump performs as it should during both of the spin drain sequences and only slows during the spray rinse, which generates a far smaller volume of water for the pump to move.  

 

I'm a little skeptical about a new pump resolving the problem.  If this bit of slowing is as bad as it gets, I think I can live with it, but welcome any additional troubleshooting suggestions. 

 

 

 

[swestoyz]

Ralph - can you confirm if you are using the original, rigid drain hose that would have come with the A712? If so, and seeing how the drain hose terminates with the added gooseneck on the left side of the machine, level to about where the syphon break is fastened to the back righthand side of the cabinet, I suspect John's thoughts about an air pocket causing issues could be one of the root causes of the slowdown during the spray rinse.

Ben

 

[yogitunes]

may be unwarranted, but I think I would swap out a pump to see if there is a difference, you checked everything else, what have you got to lose at this point....

I had a FilterFlo years ago, not so much of a suds lock issue, or even spray rinse....but once the tub was empty, and it ramped to full speed, now your getting the excess water from the clothes, for some odd reason the pumping stopped, water would slosh around....you had to stop the machine, and then restart to get the rest of the water to pump out....

I was checking and changing everything to no avail of change.....finally I installed a new pump, and all worked like it should......

there didn't seem to be anything wrong with the original pump....how or why it started to act up, who knows....just a wonky thing to happen....

I could have investigated further, as either re-installing the old pump, or onto another machine to see if the issue returned.....but at this point, the new one worked, and just tossed the old one...

your machine should also have that built in airgap....wonder if that is not sealing/opening properly, causing an airlock issue, then the pump has to build up enough water to push that air through...anything is possible at this point

 

[rp2813]

Hi Ben, yes you've sized up the drain hose arrangement precisely.  It's the original rigid hose, which is why it can't be coaxed to hang over the side of the sink.  Routing it across the back and around the side causes the hook in the end of the hose to aim in an upward direction, which necessitates the extra aluminum piece.

 

It hadn't occurred to me that it would make any difference if the hose was routed in a way that it would remain at the same height as the siphon break, but it's making more sense than ever now.  At our previous home, I had installed a standpipe for the hose to empty into, the hose was properly configured, and there was no need for the aluminum fitting.  Coincidentally, I don't recall ever having this issue with slowing during spray rinse then, or ever having to babysit the machine.  I think it's time to locate an aftermarket drain hose that's longer than average in order to facilitate the drop below the siphon break.

 

Martin, I'm still not sure about the pump being the problem.  I ran a couple of rubber-backed throw rugs through the machine a little while ago.  I used Oxy-clean HE liquid conservatively, and just the process of filling the tub created a decent suds cake, which I attribute to detergent residue in the rugs from prior washings.   I had selected slow wash/fast spin so there was no visible oversudsing during the wash cycle.   I was prepared for problems when the spin drain/spray rinse sequence launched, but instead the spray rinse completed without any slowdown or sloshing despite the evidence of potential for a suds lock.   I don't think this is a suds issue or a pump issue.  It's sounding like a drain hose issue.  An aftermarket hose shouldn't be too hard to find and would cost less than a pump, so that's what I'll try next.

 

[qsd-dan]

I faintly remember reading somewhere in my Maytag material about allowing washers with a siphon valve extra time for a full spin out during testing purposes, which all 11 series through early LAT machines were equipped with from the factory. Not sure if it's the function of the valve or the valve itself that causes a restriction. It may be a good idea to bypass it completely and run a hose directly from the pump outlet port straight out the the back of the machine like the older models did (you'll have to remove the rear access panel cover to feed the hose through). Just a thought.

 

[Sudster]

SIPHON VALVE

I'll bet a quarter Dan is right. My 87 A310 had this issue. I gutted the siphon valve since my drain entry was 8 inches above the tub height. Drains like a jet .

 

[rp2813]

Thanks for sharing that option Dan.  This would for sure require a longer hose, as exiting out the bottom of the machine would add about three more feet to the distance the hose would need to cover.  Seems like a longer hose is the next thing to try, with or without bypassing the siphon valve.

 

I guess other manufacturers were using these valves long before Maytag.  My mom's '74 Kenmore had one -- or I assume it did since the drain hose connected at top left on the back of the machine.

 

[wayupnorth]

Just remember if by some chance the hose falls to floor level after siphon valve is removed that it will gravity drain everywhere.

 

[yogitunes]

how about capping off the siphon valve to seal it off ?.....

just use a rubber tip for a cane in the proper size and a worm drive clamp....

 

[Sudster]

Your valve is the actual elbow at 31 inches high on this machine. Pull it off,gut it and clamp it back together. It is simply removing a check valve from the fitting itself. Afterwards make sure your highest drainage point is at least 4 inches higher than your washer lid.

I used to siphon gas STRAIGHT out of my dads 1970 Ford truck truck into my Honda sl70. I never could get it to work from my mom's 69 Cadillac.

 

[yogitunes]

if you gut the insides of an anti-siphon valve, water will shoot out the top 4 holes during draining....the internals are there to keep this from happening during pump out, and to allow air to enter once pressure is released....

heres a vid for you Ralph as to what this valve looks like.....actually you could disconnect the hose from the siphon valve, and pull that hose through the bottom access port and connect your drain hose to that with a simple fitting and two clamps...direct from the pump.....easy as pie

 

[Unimatic1140]

Remove the siphon break and

Yes just go to the hardware store or home depot and get a hose barb and 3 screw clamps, either straight or 90 degree angle hose barb will work. The Maytag hose is large either 3/4" or 1" barb size I believe.

 

[rp2813]

Thanks for all of the helpful suggestions!

So just to clarify, if I substitute a PVC fitting for the valve, I can leave the drain hose arrangement as is?

I'll take off the back and have a look at things first. I think the ID of the drain hose is 3/4" based on the size of the aluminum hook I'm using, but will double check.

 

[good-shepherd]

Quick belt/motor carriage test

Drain hose issues aside.

To test for belt or motor carriage problems remove the front panel and apply outward pressure to the motor carriage with you foot when washer has one of its slow downs. (Be careful of the spinning transmission).

If the speed picks up when pressure is applied you've isolated at least one of the problems; belt slippage, weak or broken slide springs or a binding slide.

Some people put an extra third spring on the motor slide. Also, check for belt glaze on the pulley.

 

[rp2813]

OK, so I got a 1" barbed elbow but hit a snag.

 

The section of the drain hose that the anti-siphon valve fits into points straight up.  This means that when the barbed elbow is installed, it points straight out the back, which creates an issue with the exterior portion of the drain hose because it doesn't have a bend molded into it where it fits onto the protruding end of the elbow.  I would need to add another elbow in order to facilitate aiming the exterior section of the drain hose either down or sideways.

 

 So, for now I've put things back the way they were so I can at least still use the machine.  I would need to fit an additional elbow off the inside drain hose, maybe by clamping on a stub of drain hose to connect both elbows.  I don't know if there's enough clearance inside the cabinet to hide all of that rigging.  Might that be worth trying or would I just be creating another reason for the spinning to slow down?  Any other suggestions?

 

Another point of concern is that I was surprised to find that where the valve fits into the inside hose, there is no adjustable clamp.  There's a band around the hose less than an inch from the end, but the valve just shoves into the hose and that's that.  It's a tight fit, and that seems to be enough to prevent any leakage.  That's fine if the valve is used, but the barbed elbow is a very loose fit.  I presume adding a clamp might resolve that issue, but I'm a little skeptical because the elbow fits snugly into the exterior portion of the hose.  Do the two hose segments have different inside diameters?

 

[Sudster]

Can you post some pictures of your machine & drain hose setup ? That original drain loop line picture is confusing . [this post was last edited: 12/18/2020-19:23]

 

[qsd-dan]

I'd still recommend finding and cannibalizing a drain hose setup from an older machine. Too many dips, valleys, twists, turns, and right angles will affect pump out performance. The previous hose routing simply runs straight back from the pump and up, which ideal and probably the reason Maytag went back to that design by the mid to late 90's. The older drain hose is also considerably longer than the siphon valve design you currently have and should work with you awkward setup without any lengthening modifications.

 

[rp2813]

Thanks for the picture Dan.  I've been considering that option from the beginning but thought I could get away with an after market hose.  Then I saw the picture and realized my lower access plate doesn't have the oblong cutout.  This means I'll have to find a donor machine for both the hose and the plate.

 

In the meantime, I'll keep using the factory arrangement.  The new belt has helped with that.

 

[yogitunes]

keep it simple.....

remove and toss that pinch clamp at the anti-siphon valve connection.....

remove the lower panel.....tape it off to the side, you dont actually need it, or find a slotted replacement....if you want, just cut a hole in it....

in any case, slide the hose from the pump out that bottom hole....using a straight connector and a few clamps, slide your current drain hose on there....and done!...

you really dont have to cut anything....but there is the option of cutting the hose close to the cabinet and attaching the "L" you already have....or find another piece of hose to make this connection.....and continue from there....

it can be done a number of different ways....best to keep it simple....

 

[rp2813]

That's another good suggestion Martin!  I think the key factor is whether the bend in the inside hose section would end up outside of the machine.  It might require an extension at the pump, so that would mean two straight connectors.  I'll take a look at things and decide how to go at this. 

 

[yogitunes]

or you could purchase a piece of hose to connect from the pump to outside the machine, and then connect the "L", and the drain hose....

note too, there may be a chance you might here some cavitation from the drain hose with a straight run...some units did it, some did not....could be how the hose is laying...

keep us posted