Maytag 8100 Front-Loader: Spin Problem

[whirlykenmore78]

Frig and John:

I am sorry to hear of your machines failing so soon. I really expected more from Whirlpool's high end washer line. I would thing either a failed sensor or broken suspension component could be causing the problem.
I hope you can get this resolved and WP's warranty is good enough to cover it. If my machine was doing this at a young age I would expect that Alliance fix it under warranty as they guarantee the machine for 5 years.
WK78

 

[washerdude]

Another thing I do want to point out

The empty tub bouncing around that much is also normal, because it's empty there's absolutely no weight inside the tub to help counter the movement. It thrashing around this much is purely the balancing rings distributing. Usually I find you really can't determine the balance on the spin right at the thrashing point, because for us there have been loads where the tub moves around so violently it comes close to hitting the glass (and has on a few), but when it reaches its full spin its 100% stable and there are no vibrations. I almost always find that the way the tub moves around during the start is 100% random and never is the same empty or loaded. There have been times where it just ramps up without even shaking at the start.

I remember for us this problem took place just over a year of ownership, and when this was happening I was really fed up Whirlpool's electronics because I assumed almost straight away it was the main board going bad...that board costs a little over $300, and just for the board, not including labor. Plus to add, we never got warranty. I was ready to chuck the WP appliance and just get an LG because at that point I was giving up with their units. It was only until after playing around with the wires it immediately started behaving like normal. I guess this makes sense, our washer got only a "Good" rating for vibration, and it being on the second floor of a wood framed house only adds to the vibrations which probably managed to loosen the wires slightly overtime, that or all of our machines are lemons.

Once I was trying to wash our king size duvet, and the spin between the rinses, just skipped because it was taking so long to balance. One time we washed a queen size duvet and on the final spin it managed to reach 800-900 RPM and it immediately cut off and went into redistributing. Strange because all the times we've washed comforters it ramps up easily without redistributing in the middle of the spin and its almost fully balanced too.

It's hard to see, but would you say your washers tub thrashes around this much?

 

[mark_wpduet]

Oh NO

Frigilux and John. I'm not glad to hear this since this is going to be my next washer - A maxima or Duet.

My Duet experiences something similar. It's 12 yrs old now but this started like 4 or 5 years ago. It's always the first spin after the wash before the first rinse, and it does NOT always do this. It varies. What happens is sometimes the spin doesn't reach full interim spin speed, which I think is medium. It will reach like half that (still an ok spin speed) and I it's always so random when it happens, no matter the cycle choice or load size (I almost always select max spin speed. It's never any of the other spins, just the first. So I've learned to live with the randomness of it, but it has not always done this the first few years.

I hope you get this figured out.

 

[johnb300m]

Thanks folks.
The insight has been enlightening.
AND SORRY FOR HIJACKING FRIG'S THREAD!

I'm not so sure mine is a motor problem. I'm guessing more suspension?
I wonder if Frig's could be more motor related if he's seeing more auto-balance issues but nothing too physical in the suspension?

Mine will struggle in all spins sometimes but seemingly only from balance and the tub thrashing about. But once it redistributes once, or 4 times...it becomes happy enough and proceeds. But it's still quite bouncy!

Washerdude, thanks, that video was very helpful in revealing the speeds and behaviors in certain ranges. To answer your question, yes, my machine will thrash about in the very early stages of ramp-up. It's never hit the glass yet, haha! But it comes close.
However the difference is when it was new, up till a few months ago, it would TOTALLY smooth out to where there was NO discernible tub oscillation in spin, whether it was an empty basket, or full of undies or even jeans.

Now here's the perplexing part. The amount of vibration and oscillation I now have, seems to be out of scope with where the dampers are even engaged.

http://www.suspa.com/us/products/dampers/range/washing-machine-dampers/products/rd-18-fl/

As you see in the link above. The dampers these WP MT series machines have, use a damper with a "free floating" zone where they do not even engage for about 3/4" of travel. That's where I'm getting the most shaking.

However, last night I played with it more, and pushed on it with my hands in various directions, and I noticed, by feel, some slight discrepancies.
In the picture attached, you'll notice in areas where I pressed upon, it seems like the front left quadrant seemed more "bouncy" and less resistant than the other quadrants. It also seemed kinda bouncy when angling it forward, more than aft.
As you see, pushing and pulling it front and back seemed rather easy, but I cannot tell if that's how it's supposed to be or not.

I have a hunch that there's an issue with that front left damper, but my units are stacked, and I'm not sure I can get the front panel off.
PLUS, i'm still under 3yr Home Depot warranty, and I don't want to void it.
Hence why I've been living with this and hoping it gets worse. Ha!
As earlier stated, the onset was quite sudden, in an "incident" so I'm thinking something in that free floating damper mechanism failed, or maybe the tub mount itself cracked in that front left area? I just cannot see it to confirm.

As for MarkWP, I'd still say don't fret
I still like my Maxima! And if Home Depot eventually replaces it in a year? I'd get another one! The performance is awesome.
And honestly? There's complaints all around on all machines out there, even the legendary speed queens!
I'd still say take the gamble, and if you like the newer WP machines, go for it. If you like something else at the time? Go for it.

 

[logixx]

Here's another video of a Duet. It's interesting how much the tub bounces compared to the simple design of the German-made unit.

 

[appnut]

My  nearly 5.5 y/o Duet has some spin attitude at times.  It will ramp up and spin for maybe 30 seconds or a minute and then stop and redistribute.  And sometimes it seems to have a really difficult time balancing.  Other times it will take off spinning and shake significantly and keep on going--just seems to smooth out as it gets faster. I've not used ex high speed as a general rule for probably a year or more thanks to Andrew.  I use high for towels, sheets,  as Eugene puts it "personal whites", as well as sweats or jersey t-shirts & shorts around the house.  All my casual wear/work clothes are spun on medium and my compression stockings on ex-lo.    I just don't see a significant added "return" using ex high vs. high for those designated loads.  The difference in drying time is negligible. 

 

[frigilux]

Just washed a small load of whites on the Normal cycle. The final spin began doing the ramp-up/tumble malfunction. After a few minutes it began spinning at around 400-500 rpm. The countdown held at 11 minutes for about five minutes. Then it beeped twice and I thought maybe it was flashing an error code. Nope. Went back into the family room to watch TV. A few minutes later, I heard it gradually ramp up to what I assume was near full speed---maybe 1000 rpm.

I wonder what the deal with the two beeps was and if it had anything to do with the machine eventually spinning near full speed? Weird.

Update: Tried a spin only (empty tub) and it ramped up to what sounded like the usual 1400 the last couple of minutes in the cycle (which is the normal protocol). Won't wash again 'til Sunday or Monday. Will be interested to see if it behaves normally with a full load.

[this post was last edited: 3/29/2017-19:56]

 

[frigilux]

Returned last night from five days of road warrior out-of-state gigging. Washed four loads overnight and it is spinning at 1400 once again with only one symptom of a problem: A chattering sound during spin which goes away as the rpm's crank up over 1000.

Were I a betting man, I'd say it's one of the shock absorbers.

The $64,000 Question: Why did the washer refuse to spin at full speed last week (symptoms explained above). What were the two beeps about? Did the washer's software adjust itself to the new conditions over a few loads?

 

[mark_wpduet]

Any updates

on this frigilux?

 

[frigilux]

Have washed about 10 loads since the last post. There is some "chattering" as the machine ramps up to speed. Most spun normally, save for two that refused to go faster than about 400-500 rpm. Again, the machine beeped twice mid-cycle (in the interval of a major third for the musicians out there) and then it behaved normally for a few loads.

Money is tight at the moment, so I'm letting it do its thing for another month or so. Then I'll call the dealer/repairman.

 

[logixx]

Maybe you should record a few cycles and see what actually causes the beeping - maybe it's even a temporary power failure. Your Maytag does have the tub light that remains on until you turn it off, right?

 

[murando531]

So, I don't know if this is related at all, but my mother-in-law's Whirlpool Cabrio 8500 seems to behave in a similar fashion sometimes...and it's a top loader. It seems that no matter how level the machine is, or what size load it's washing, it seems to periodically decide that it doesn't want to go into full speed spin, and sticks around the 500 rpm level and tacks on a few more minutes to the cycle. If I'm not mistaken, your machine and John's are of the same generation as this Cabrio, and from what I've read, these new machines now have accelerometers built into the logic board that will "adapt" to its surroundings and will also force the machine to lower the spin speeds if it senses that a full speed spin might vibrate or cause excess noise.

For her machine in particular, I've tweaked the leveling feet to the point that I can't get the washer more level even if I tried. All four feet are firmly planted to the floor (which is tile on concrete slab), and the basket is dead center in the opening, yet at certain points in the spin, the body will vibrate just enough that it looks like the machine might start walking, yet the feet are still planted down. For some reason, they are now using these large plastic leveling feet that seem designed to give slightly. I'm not sure if this is a penny pinching decision or if it is supposed to help reduce vibration on less stable flooring, but in any case, I'm not a fan. I'd much rather have the solid metal locking bolt feet that are on my BravosXL, because my machine doesn't so much as vibrate even with heavy loads.

From what I can tell, the feet on the front loader Duet/Maxima are still traditional locking bolts like mine; could the machine be at all off-level, even slightly? Enough that it could cause the basket to vibrate outside of its thresholds and cause the logic board to force slow spins?

 

[washerdude]

Just a theory:

Could this be the machine telling you that the tub is hitting the cabinets side panels during the spin cycle and is prompting the user to stop the unit? Never once, did our washer beep when it had this issue, nothing even came up in diagnostics despite it even doing the exact same thing in the diagnostic cycle.

 

[johnb300m]

Very interesting insight, guys.

In my situation I have not experienced any "beeps" during cycle.
That seems to be a deeper issue in the software I would gather.

My vibration issues seem to be more intermittent lately, since I swapped dampers in the rear, but still apparent.
Andrew's correct, that these new machines all have accelerometers in the control panel, the motor controller, or both.
Some loads create different vibrations and harmonics, based on solid or wood floors.
Mine are on 2nd story wood floors, which does have a little give.
There's also a dryer stacked on top, which could be affecting movements/vibration.
The fact that my units are stacked, makes it very difficult to level the legs. I was able to make small adjustments when I had the rear panel off, weeks ago. It "seems" pretty stable but with the wood floor, it may never be perfect.

I'm more curious about Frig's beeps!
I wonder if there's a control issue, maybe along with one or more "weakened" but not "bad" dampers?

That Duet video was very interesting!
I must state that when my Maxima was brand new, in full spin, there was even LESS tub movement than that. I'm saying, almost none!
That WP vid certainly shows some oscillation on spin, but it's minimal.
That's what my machine will do now, or maybe a tad more, after "the incident."

 

[appnut]

As mentioned in a post above, there's a guy on YouTube (Dean's Washer Videos) who moved from Australia to Canada.  He had an LG in Australia and decided on purchasing comparable WP about 3 or 4 years ago.  I vaguely remember him making a comment after one of his new LG washer videos when asked what happened to the WP.  First they just liked the LG better.  But he also began experiencing the situation where it wouldn't spin above medium.  He got it fixed, but I think he said there's a software issue with this series of WPs.  The replacement LG was procured summer of 2015 or 2016. 

 

[mark_wpduet]

A software issue?

So you think that might be the problem of these 2 machines having spin issues? If so, I wonder if it's been corrected by WP?

 

[washerdude]

Another Possible Fix?

Ironically enough, its the exact same model as mine. Apparently replacing the stater fixed the problem. However I have not replaced anything but mess around with the wires and somehow it managed to work. The link below has a similar problem but their unit managed to reach 1200rpm then immediately stop. This seems to be a rare issue only on some models, I really can't find anything still as of this date about this issue.

https://www.applianceblog.com/mainforums/threads/52953-Whirlpool-Duet-weak-spin-cycle

 

[mark_wpduet]

Ahhh

What does a stater do? I looked and it looks like a relatively expensive part.

 

[washerdude]

OOPS!

Meant the stator motor LOL! Not sure how the stator has anything to do with the problem considering WP units don't even use a hall sensor... It seems as if its mearly just a stator style motor mounted to the back of the tub with nothing else, which could point to another indication of software issues. What is beginning to worry me now is if messing around with the wires really didn't fix it, is the problem just laying low for now?

 

[washerdude]

Prices

The price of the stator is a little alarming...

https://www.whirlpoolparts.com/PartDetail/Stator/WPW10657810/4449084