MAYTAG TWO-BELT TRANSMISSION QUESTION
- Thread starter jwpate
- Start date
Help Support :
This water valve also came out today, getting the cabinet ready for attention. I hadn't thought much about the valve before now, as it seemed to still be working OK. It looks like its best years are behind it though, doesn't it. That small hose clamp is too rusted up to come off, so I just cut the hose. I have already decided to replace all the rubber hose sections as a matter of course.
Can't get that design hose clamp these days though. They weren't that great anyway, and more on hose clamps later.
Can't get that design hose clamp these days though. They weren't that great anyway, and more on hose clamps later.
And since I will be ordering a replacement inlet valve, I remembered another question which I have not yet answered.
Anyone on this forum will probably immediately recognize these three amigos. They are the outer tub mounting bolts, with what the supplier refer to as rubber sealing washers. My plan was to cut some replacement washers - but from what material? They may call them rubber if they wish to, but they seem more like polyurethane to me. Anyone know for sure?
I suppose the safest and easiest thing to do would be just replace the three bolts with new ones, as they come with the washers attached. I haven't located a source for the two longer bolts, while the short one is available from many sources. So I shall just order three of the short ones. Actually, I haven't worked out why they used long ones on the back tub braces anyway. There is always a reason, but I could only guess on this one.
Anyone on this forum will probably immediately recognize these three amigos. They are the outer tub mounting bolts, with what the supplier refer to as rubber sealing washers. My plan was to cut some replacement washers - but from what material? They may call them rubber if they wish to, but they seem more like polyurethane to me. Anyone know for sure?
I suppose the safest and easiest thing to do would be just replace the three bolts with new ones, as they come with the washers attached. I haven't located a source for the two longer bolts, while the short one is available from many sources. So I shall just order three of the short ones. Actually, I haven't worked out why they used long ones on the back tub braces anyway. There is always a reason, but I could only guess on this one.
Back to the subject of hose clamps. I did order a full set of hose clamps for the washer, for they all are rusty. The order was with MAYTAG, and that item on the left is what Whirlpool now ships out as "factory certified parts". In its favor is the fact that it is made of stainless, but I would only use in a pinch and short term. That type clamp is second rate because of the effect those slots will have on the rubber hoses. The hoses are not inexpensive, and we want long life from. The original clamps had a smooth surface against the rubber, and we can find that too in worm style clamps. The clamp on the right is first rate, and the style I shall be using.
beekeyknee
Well-known member
Hi James,
Unless the rubber is damaged on the underneath side of those bolts you may reuse them again. I've always reused them before and never had any trouble. Have you tried PB Blaster on your rusted clamps. That usually brings them back, but the new one you show on the right looks nice.
Brian
Unless the rubber is damaged on the underneath side of those bolts you may reuse them again. I've always reused them before and never had any trouble. Have you tried PB Blaster on your rusted clamps. That usually brings them back, but the new one you show on the right looks nice.
Brian
Thanks for the response Brian. And I have not forgotten your recommendation to check eBay for a service manual. This one has been fun for me looking through, and I did already hit upon a slight surprise in the section on replacing the mounting stem and boot seal. The service manual instructs us to lubricate the carbon ring with thin film of transmission oil before screwing on the mounting stem. Note: the manual uses the term "carbon seal".
Now, when I look at the instruction sheet which came with the new Whirlpool replacement stem and seal, the only "instruction" given is to wipe the face on the bootseal and TEFLON ring on mounting stem with a clean cloth, with the warning "lubrication will reduce the life of the seal face".
I remember this contradiction too, from reading your excellent step-by-step thread. It does seem likely to me, that the carbon seal which MAYTAG once used has been replace by teflon in the Whirlpool version. I am going to put them in clean and dry.
Now, when I look at the instruction sheet which came with the new Whirlpool replacement stem and seal, the only "instruction" given is to wipe the face on the bootseal and TEFLON ring on mounting stem with a clean cloth, with the warning "lubrication will reduce the life of the seal face".
I remember this contradiction too, from reading your excellent step-by-step thread. It does seem likely to me, that the carbon seal which MAYTAG once used has been replace by teflon in the Whirlpool version. I am going to put them in clean and dry.
redcarpetdrew
Well-known member
Wow.
I've been following this thread with great interest and all I can say is WOW! You are doing one heck of a job restoring this little one. I admit I came in on this later than most. I work at a Maytag service center in Reno. I do have access to a ton of service manuals and part break downs. What do you need, if anything? Might I ask what part of Nevada are you in? It's really good to know I'm not the only AW'er here now!
If this helps, this is a thread I did a while back with part numbers, etc...
Hope to hear from you!
RCD
www.automaticwasher.org
I've been following this thread with great interest and all I can say is WOW! You are doing one heck of a job restoring this little one. I admit I came in on this later than most. I work at a Maytag service center in Reno. I do have access to a ton of service manuals and part break downs. What do you need, if anything? Might I ask what part of Nevada are you in? It's really good to know I'm not the only AW'er here now!
If this helps, this is a thread I did a while back with part numbers, etc...
Hope to hear from you!
RCD
Changing a Maytag tub bearing and seal: A how to...
Recently, Dan wanted me to show him the steps on changing a Maytag Dependable Care platform tub bearing and seal on his HA806 that I gave him. What we here at the shop call a 'stem and boot job'. There has been interest expressed on my possibly sharing that with all of you. In the interests of...
www.automaticwasher.org
Thanks for the encouragement Drew. Your reputation has preceded the above posting, for I already am aware of redcarpetdrew and your contributions to this forum. I hope you will call me out and set me straight whenever I seem to be heading off in wrong directions. I am down in the Las Vegas valley Drew, and this is my first attempt at a Maytag overhaul. Brian has been advising me and so naturally, I have already looked through one of your threads. Will be sure to read this one too, ASAP.
Well, they seemed to use a different size and length sheet metal screw for every requirement. I thought of trying to source some replacements in stainless, but don't believe I would find all the shapes and sizes. So I will have a go at the originals, and none of them are missing.
Well, they seemed to use a different size and length sheet metal screw for every requirement. I thought of trying to source some replacements in stainless, but don't believe I would find all the shapes and sizes. So I will have a go at the originals, and none of them are missing.
redcarpetdrew
Well-known member
For a first attempt, you are out shining some techs I've known. The only thing I'm not certain about is replacing the lower o ring seal on the lower transmission shaft. I've not seen anyone use the newer lip seal in place of the o ring as I thought the lower shafts were slightly different between the o ring using helical and the lip seal using orbital. I by no means claim to be the authority, since when I do it ends up spanking me, and will love to see the results of experimentation.
That is the best example of saving a rusted outer tub ever! You, my friend, have the touch. Keep going!
RCD
That is the best example of saving a rusted outer tub ever! You, my friend, have the touch. Keep going!
RCD
With the tub out for coating, I am just about dead in the water anyway to I went after the hardware bits today. I know I will not have done them all, but this is the lions share. They appear to have been zinc plated in their first life, and that has given about all the protection it is able to. Most are rusted, but not badly pitted.
So I spent the morning bead blasting these items and then re-plating them but this time in nickel.
The adjusting bolts also got new hard rubber feet.
So I spent the morning bead blasting these items and then re-plating them but this time in nickel.
The adjusting bolts also got new hard rubber feet.
I just wasn't very clear Drew, in that posting about the lip seal. I am not using it in place of the O-ring, for my transmission never had the O-ring. I was simply replacing the lip seal which came on the washer from new.
The special tool, seen below, is really a fine thread tap, which cuts through the covering and into the steel sleeve which is inside the lip seal. By first removing the brake assembly it is thus possible to change this type seal without pulling the transmission out. It is removed by getting a bite on the seal sleeve and then using the bolt of the tool against the helix end to pull the seal out around the central shaft. It is replaced by using that red protector in the earlier photo and driving it home using the pulley on the helix threads.
The special tool, seen below, is really a fine thread tap, which cuts through the covering and into the steel sleeve which is inside the lip seal. By first removing the brake assembly it is thus possible to change this type seal without pulling the transmission out. It is removed by getting a bite on the seal sleeve and then using the bolt of the tool against the helix end to pull the seal out around the central shaft. It is replaced by using that red protector in the earlier photo and driving it home using the pulley on the helix threads.
And the UPS truck just dropped off a new transmission nylon pinion gear. Thanks again DigAPony for that lead to appliancejungle. I have the gasket for the transmission too, but will hold off closing it up because it does seem that the two new clutch washers have been located, thanks to fellow forum member Brian.
redcarpetdrew
Well-known member
There we go.
As I said, not the all seeing!
Forgot that during a short period when they were phasing the orbital in, both styles got the lip seal. Good show! Done that lip seal surgery a few times. Not bad to do but sometimes is annoying as it doesn't last (very seldom, tho...)
I am just loving the picture I have in my head of what she's going to look like when you're done! Can't wait for the inaugural wash (with accompanying hi def video of course!). Almost worth the roadie to Vegas to watch her rebirth.
RCD
As I said, not the all seeing!
Forgot that during a short period when they were phasing the orbital in, both styles got the lip seal. Good show! Done that lip seal surgery a few times. Not bad to do but sometimes is annoying as it doesn't last (very seldom, tho...)
I am just loving the picture I have in my head of what she's going to look like when you're done! Can't wait for the inaugural wash (with accompanying hi def video of course!). Almost worth the roadie to Vegas to watch her rebirth.
RCD
Cool Rebuilding Job
I know you are having fun with it. A Few Thoughts that might help.
Powder coating the outer-tub should be very sufficient, I have never found a company that will actually re-coat porcelain on metal as thin as an outer tub. Most companies want to sandblast off the old coating first and doing so on thin metal can literally leave holes.
As a technician for over 40 years I have never seen a nylon pinion gear or the thrust washers wear to the point that they caused any problem with the operation of the washer, and I suspect that if you wanted to disassemble your rebuilt MT transmission after about two years of use you will see the same scoring and very slight wear on the nylon pinion gear that the transmission you are rebuilding now shows.
The brake lining of the brake assembly looks completely normal as it is for all practical purposes as good as new.
The orignal MT center pull hose clamps are a very good type of clamp, and you are correct that the typical worm gear clamps are not a great hose clamp, overall the best type of clamp you can have are the flat spring clamps, but unfortunately you must have the exact size for the job, so the SS band clamps you are using are as good as the orignal MT clamps and should work great for this purpose.
John L.
I know you are having fun with it. A Few Thoughts that might help.
Powder coating the outer-tub should be very sufficient, I have never found a company that will actually re-coat porcelain on metal as thin as an outer tub. Most companies want to sandblast off the old coating first and doing so on thin metal can literally leave holes.
As a technician for over 40 years I have never seen a nylon pinion gear or the thrust washers wear to the point that they caused any problem with the operation of the washer, and I suspect that if you wanted to disassemble your rebuilt MT transmission after about two years of use you will see the same scoring and very slight wear on the nylon pinion gear that the transmission you are rebuilding now shows.
The brake lining of the brake assembly looks completely normal as it is for all practical purposes as good as new.
The orignal MT center pull hose clamps are a very good type of clamp, and you are correct that the typical worm gear clamps are not a great hose clamp, overall the best type of clamp you can have are the flat spring clamps, but unfortunately you must have the exact size for the job, so the SS band clamps you are using are as good as the orignal MT clamps and should work great for this purpose.
John L.
re-plating them but this time in nickel.
I was going to suggest checking Craigslist, late model Dependable Care Maytag washers are good source for major and miscellaneous donor parts that can interchange with MT washers going back to the '60's.
But since you've already re-plated the hardware in nickle, um, never mind...
This resto is obviously on whole other level.
I was going to suggest checking Craigslist, late model Dependable Care Maytag washers are good source for major and miscellaneous donor parts that can interchange with MT washers going back to the '60's.
But since you've already re-plated the hardware in nickle, um, never mind...
This resto is obviously on whole other level.
A very impressive
restoration and I'm even more impressed if I understand correctly that you are the original owner of the machine?
Replating in nickel - boy do I envy that! But nickel can be toxic if not handled properly how do you do it?
Keep a goin!!
restoration and I'm even more impressed if I understand correctly that you are the original owner of the machine?
Replating in nickel - boy do I envy that! But nickel can be toxic if not handled properly how do you do it?
Keep a goin!!
Well thank each of you for the encouragement. Believe me fellows it is appreciated, as is the advice and information.
Yes, I bought this washer new from the MAYTAG dealer in New Orleans. It would have been '86 or '87. We have been in Southern Nevada now for the past 15 years. Here, just about all of us use salt-brime water softeners, for the water is seriously hard without it. It does have a toll on appliances however. I am on my third water heater now, and I do believe the greater part of my sheet metal rust is related to that.
Several weeks back, while a load was washing, I got a report that "we need a new washer, that old one is screeching and burning up!" The fault turned out to be a heavy fabric item, which had found its way into the gap between the inner tub top and the outer tub cover just as the spin cycle was starting - and jammed things up. The smell was burning rubber from the drive belt of course. After clearing the cause, the machine seemed to return to normal operation, but there were other reports that it also hadn't been getting enough water out of spin loads.
So I went into this with the expectation that a set of new belts would be in order. After taking off the front cover though, and looking in there at the dust, rust and neglect, a sense of guilt began to take over. Almost thirty years now of faithful service, and this sad view of utter neglect seemed to point a finger directly at me with the words shame, shame on you. This is why it has now evolved into a general overhaul. My attitude is that anything made of rubber or plastic, whether leaking or not, has already performed its duty and deserves an honorable retirement. As john points, this will undoubtably lead to some over-kill, such as the brake assembly, clutch washers, and pinion gear. But in those cases I shall just save the old items as good used parts for the future. And I plan to keep this MAYTAG A112 going in full service for as long as I am able.
Going in, it was necessary to understand the helix drive operation, and members of this forum made that possible. Now I even have a service manual. And, the reading has given me a great respect for the clever design as well as the high build quality of the old MAYTAG washers.
On re-plating the small hardware items, that is fairly routine for me as a spill-over from my old car interest. It is just faster and easier to do it yourself on plating parts small enough to fit into my five gal. plating buckets. I would have done them in zinc if close tolerance was an issue, but with parts such as this I prefer nickel for it has performed better for me protecting steel items in high humidity conditions.
No, neither nickel nor zinc are especially dangerous to work with. Cadmium most certainly is though, and for all practical purposes it is also illegal in small operations.
Yes Drew, I have made that drive from Reno to Vegas a few times, and Brother, it's a long and lonesome road!
James
Yes, I bought this washer new from the MAYTAG dealer in New Orleans. It would have been '86 or '87. We have been in Southern Nevada now for the past 15 years. Here, just about all of us use salt-brime water softeners, for the water is seriously hard without it. It does have a toll on appliances however. I am on my third water heater now, and I do believe the greater part of my sheet metal rust is related to that.
Several weeks back, while a load was washing, I got a report that "we need a new washer, that old one is screeching and burning up!" The fault turned out to be a heavy fabric item, which had found its way into the gap between the inner tub top and the outer tub cover just as the spin cycle was starting - and jammed things up. The smell was burning rubber from the drive belt of course. After clearing the cause, the machine seemed to return to normal operation, but there were other reports that it also hadn't been getting enough water out of spin loads.
So I went into this with the expectation that a set of new belts would be in order. After taking off the front cover though, and looking in there at the dust, rust and neglect, a sense of guilt began to take over. Almost thirty years now of faithful service, and this sad view of utter neglect seemed to point a finger directly at me with the words shame, shame on you. This is why it has now evolved into a general overhaul. My attitude is that anything made of rubber or plastic, whether leaking or not, has already performed its duty and deserves an honorable retirement. As john points, this will undoubtably lead to some over-kill, such as the brake assembly, clutch washers, and pinion gear. But in those cases I shall just save the old items as good used parts for the future. And I plan to keep this MAYTAG A112 going in full service for as long as I am able.
Going in, it was necessary to understand the helix drive operation, and members of this forum made that possible. Now I even have a service manual. And, the reading has given me a great respect for the clever design as well as the high build quality of the old MAYTAG washers.
On re-plating the small hardware items, that is fairly routine for me as a spill-over from my old car interest. It is just faster and easier to do it yourself on plating parts small enough to fit into my five gal. plating buckets. I would have done them in zinc if close tolerance was an issue, but with parts such as this I prefer nickel for it has performed better for me protecting steel items in high humidity conditions.
No, neither nickel nor zinc are especially dangerous to work with. Cadmium most certainly is though, and for all practical purposes it is also illegal in small operations.
Yes Drew, I have made that drive from Reno to Vegas a few times, and Brother, it's a long and lonesome road!
James
Similar threads
