Mega Miele?

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sudsmaster

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I saw a mention in another thread of a "Mega Miele" washer coming out in 2007.

Would anyone have some additional information about this model?

Capacity?

Features?

Voltage?

Price?

Thanks!
 
ThatHomeSite's laundry forum had some information reagarding the upcoming Miele washer and dryer set. Have posted a bit of information in various posts here myself as well.

No one knows the MSRP as of yet, though there are some pundits making guesses over on THS based upon Miele machines sold elsewhere.

Voltage is 120v/60hz. Highest wash temp will be 170F, though not sure if Miele will require a 15amp or 20amp circut. Outer tub will be fiberglass instead of stainless steel, and IIRC Miele has broken down and this new washer will have a dispenser for LCB.

When speaking with Miele-USA tech-support about my current washer, queried about the upcoming units, and the tech said he had seen a model and while they are huge for a Miele, not as huge as say a Duet.

As for cycles,if the newest Miele models sold elsewhere are any indication, besides the usual programs, there may be cycles for duvets/pillows, shirts, and rinse/spin will make a return after being taken away with Miele last new washer series.

With 2007 only a few weeks away, you may wish to telephone Miele USA directly and see if they have any further information/brochures available.

L.
 
Thanks, Cimbi.

I've checked the Miele website and there is no hint of a new model.

I'm wondering also if the MM will have a right hinged door like other Miele's, or if it will succomb to the US practice of left hinging. If it's left hinged, then I will probably look elsewhere for a new washer.

Too bad about the 120 volt thing, also. This was a chance for Miele to really make a difference in high end washers. Instead I don't see how they expect to compete with an already crowded field.
 
Instead I don't see how they expect to compete with an already crowded field.

I think in an "emerging" front-load market in this country, now is the time for mannies to push all things, practical to ridiculous, and try to grab market share.

It was believed that front-loaders would never catch-on here.
With big capacities, big port-holes and plaforms for ease-of -loading, this appears to be a non-issue.

Things change.
 
I went to Miele's website and clicked on Laundry Products, then Professional Laundry for the Home and the product list is quite extensive...capacities reaching 70lbs. Are we talking about the same new machines?
 
Well, Cimberlie, from that link, it's apparent that the Mega Miele will not be so big after all. The article states that the machine will be similar to the company's existing 60 cm wide line, and that means a 24" wide machine. Not much in the way of increased capacity is possible without going to 27".

And yes, the new machines will be 110 volt in an attempt to cater to perceived American preferences. What a shame.

On a brighter note, I was impressed with the HE2T I saw at Sears - no, Kmart - tonight. It's got a pure horizontal drum, decent capacity (3.6 IEC), and a clear porthole. Even more interesting, the door is completely symetrical in both X and Y axes. This means it *could* be possible to simply flip the door to reverse it. The only problem I saw is that a new hinge bracket might need to be designed, as the cabinet has a slight recess to accomodate the existing hinge. And, of course, the sheet metal would have to be cut in order to move the hinge to one side and the latch mechanism to the other. Nothing I couldn't manage - with an HE2T picked up for a song at a Sears outlet, that is ;-).
 
Sudsman:

Miele had no end of trouble selling their washers with only a 220v connection. Despite what many over on THS state, not every home has or can have a 220v line installed. This includes some of the most expensive real estate in Manhattan, where buildings from the 1920's to 1950's, those highly sought after "pre-War" buildings simply do not have enough power coming into the apartments, and sometimes the building to make a Miele possible.

Our Miele dealer told us he will have a sale up until they hear about the 220v power and or get an estimate for installing the required power. Spending $2000 or more for a W&D set is one thing, but adding another $3000 or more for a NYC electrican to install/upgrade the electrical wiring is just more than many are willing to pay.

With so many other front loaders on the American market,including the Bosch uber front loader, all running on 220v power; Miele decided to chuck lofty snob appeal and go for expanding their market share.

Early Miele washing machines sold in the United States, could on some models run on 120v power. My W770 does, as did some W1918's. Then as now, Miele was going for market share, and knew most American homes did not have 220v power.

Besides, today with few if anyone doing boil washes anymore, well besides Americans who just have discovered high temp washing and also share a maina for germs, (joking), a high wash temp of 140F or 170F is fine, and that can be done on 120V/60hz power. Faster if the circut is a 20amp instead of a 15amp.

L.
 
You could have both options

There's no reason why the machines couldn't be set up like US dryers.

i.e. use 110V for the motor + electronics

and then have an option of 220V or 110V heat.

If you've 110V only, the machine would just lock out some of the temptrature options.
 
110V / 220V options

There's no reason why you could have a setup like this:

Use 110V for the motor, pump, controls and electronics.

And have a 110V heater and a 220V heater in the tank.

If 220V is available, the software would simply make more heat options available.
If it's 110V only, you would be restricted to say 60?C and wash times might be a little longer.

Quite a number of European machines use software to cope with different specs for different EU countries.

i.e. most of continental Europe uses the CEE 7/7 plug which is rated 16A 230V
UK and Ireland use the BS1363 plug, which is only rated 13A 230V
and a couple of places seem to have 10A 230V plug/socket systems e.g. switzerland, australia and NZ etc.

So, in many cases they simply use software to restrict the max loading on washers and driers appropriately.

So, a dryer in the UK will take a little longer than a dryer in Germany as it'll be keeping below the max 13A 230V instead of 16A.
 
........or like a 60's US dryer move the bloomin' hot lead over to the neutral and VOILA your 220v heater now works on 120v.

[In those days there were few dedicated 30a 220v dryer lines or even homes (in the US) that had the voltage or ampacity needed].

You may need a resisor here and there to get the wattage and/or amperage "right" , but those curves are all very easily navigated, with a little forethought on the part of the mannies.
 
Toggles, many, if not most homes built in the 60s had the power for an electric dryer because, at least in the South, the newer building codes called for a minimum of a 150 amp electrical service and circuit breakers, not fuses. The fact that large areas of the Southeast were served at least in part by the Tennessee Valley Authority with a great deal of cheap hydro-electric power helped too. The TVA came along in the 1930s with the Rural Electrification Association and those two agencies transformed life in the poverty-ridden areas of the Depression era South. When my parents finished off part of the basement in our 1955 ranch style home as a studio apartment for my brother and me after our sister was born, the heavy up was almost free from Georgia Power if you bought either an electric range or dryer. I guess if anyone was stupid enough to switch from a gas to an electric water heater, it would have qualifed also. It had to be a 220 volt appliance that would be used all year so air conditioning did not qualify, but a heat pump would. The builders were either installing central air in upscale homes or knew that window units would be installed so that was another reason to have an electrical service with some extra capacity. A lot of homes were being built as total electric "Gold Medallion" homes even in places with a natural gas supply. Ah, to go back to the days when we were encouraged to find more ways to use electricity and no one voiced concern about demand exceeding capacity. Older homes in towns that had gas supplies had gas dryers if they did not have the capacity for an electric dryer. There were the home handymen who did their own wiring and arranged to have 230 volt air conditioners (the norm back then) and an electric dryer with instructions to the family to only use one ac unit when the dryer was in use. Laundry was done early in the day when it was cooler and it worked out if the house only had a 60 amp electrical service and a gas stove. By the very early 60s, at least where I grew up, new homes came with a 220v/30 amp dryer outlet in the laundry area. This was also the time when GE had a real lock on built in kitchen appliances because they would practically give the builder a built in dishwasher for about $10 with the purchase of built in electric cooking equipment. A new home with a kitchen that included not only a built in cook top and oven, but also a dishwasher, made a much better showing to people wanting a new home with modern features. The electric range and dryer outlet won the builders some breaks from the power companies also, so it really paid to make homes ready for electric dryers.

With the long drying times of a 115 volt dryer, new construction, remodeling, installation of air conditioning and other reasons for improved electrical service, not that many 220 volt dryers had to operate on 115 volts before the house had enough capacity to operate the dryer on 220.
 
I’m an architect who does mostly residential work, and in my experience homeowners really prefer gas appliances, at least in any higher-end construction. Right now one of my projects is a $400,000 remodel which includes a new laundry room. I showed a 220v outlet in the laundry room just in case someone would ever want an electric dryer or 220v washer, but the owner nixed the idea when he found that the additional wire and labor would add $100 to the electrical costs. For this reason even a lot of homes with plenty of service capacity don’t have 220 in the laundry room, so I agree with Launderess that Miele should concentrate on products that work on 120v.

As far as door swings go, I would LOVE to see someone produce a FL washer with a swappable door. Right now I have another remodel going with a new laundry room, but it is small as the space is constrained by a new breakfast room on one side and a fancy “outdoor room” on the other side with a spa, trellis, outdoor kitchen and fireplace. Needing to keep the exterior door to the water heater closet on an inconspicuous wall, I was forced to place the stacked washer and dryer against a wall to the right. This is all wrong for the usual left hinged door, which the owners know, but just can’t be helped. If someone made a left-hand front loader then I would happily recommend it in situations like this.

The owner of the second project has bought a set of TOL Whirlpools to replace her old Maytag set. Out of curiosity I asked why she chose the Whirlpools, and got told that she just called up her usual independent appliance store in west Los Angeles and asked what was the most reliable big capacity set. The salesman said the Whirlpools were was hands-down the best, even though they didn’t have both units in stock. I have no feel for this at all, but thought it interesting as that store carries a number of brands. I don't know if they handle Miele, but even if they do the capacity of the current units wouldn't have been adequate for this owner.
 
Very Interesting!

Awhile back posted a link to Miele's 2007 brochure for the UK. Correct me if am wrong, but the units featured in Westy's link look allot like the W4000 T9000 range.

Someone ought to write to this seller and get the low down. Or better yet pay him a nice litle visit, digital camera in tow of course. *LOL*

L.

http://www.miele.co.uk/Resources/RequestBrochure/Brochures/Laundry.pdf
 
Interesting, indeed...

Hmmm. Looks like the washer is on the right in that display. So I'm assuming/hoping that means a right-hinged door.

I would have to say, though, that sure doesn't look like a $2000 washer. Not enough bling, lol.

Regarding ease of making a dual voltage washer. American 220 volt circuits are a bit strange compared to European 220 volt. The American 220 has two hot leads, each one is 110 volts, 180 degrees out of phase with each other. Between them is 220. But you'd need not only a different plug but probably a whole new power cord to switch a washer from 220 to 110 and back again. Not impossible, just another complication to confuse salesmen (and we all know how confused they mostly are already). In other words, software alone just isn't going to do it. Plus the 220 plugs tend to be rather massive and clunky when compared to 110 plugs. Additionally, the current Miele washer is supposed to be hooked up to a 15 amp 220 volt circuit. Most US dryer outlets, if I'm not mistaken, are 30 amp 220 volt. Not that the circuit couldn't handle it, but there would be more protection against washer shorts if the circuit amps more closely matched the washer amps.
 
The europaen "220V"is derived from phase to neutral on a 3Ph 380-400V 3Ph "Y"circuit.the US 220V is a single phase-center tapped-exactly the secondary voltages of the distribution transformer.220V across the whole secondary-and 120V each side of the secondary to neutral or ground.I would think Miele washers could be built to run off a 15A 220V circuit.would give you about twice the wattage of 120V15A.15A 220V circuits are common for many types of workshop tools.also some treadmills(commercial ones) run from 220V 15A circuits.also 15A circuits may run some larger window AC units.NEMA 220V15A plug.I wouldn't think it would be too much trouble to put such a circuit in the laundry room.15A220V circuits are common in some home workshops to run power tool with 220V motors such as table or radial arm saws.I have run such a circuit in the past to run a radial arm saw.Used for tools with 1.5 to 2Hp motors.
 
OMG They've changed the place of the lintfilter in the dryer or am I wrong? If they did I think it's horrible. Normally the filter surface in the door is much larger and the lint is build up thinner so more air can pass through it. But I've noticed that with my Bauknecht dryer, where the filter is below the door, the lint is built up thicker and so causing a light clogging problem. Also I can't reach in the filter house so cleaning or getting coins out of it is impossible. Please Miele never get ride of the filter on the door!!!
 
Tolivac,

I'm sure you know this, but current Miele washers are built to run off USA spec 220v 15A circuits. It's the new one that they are dumbing down to run on 110 volt 15 amp circuits, probably to garner a larger market share.

As far as I'm concerned and can discern at this time, the only thing the new Miele has going for it, above the competition, is the right hinged door (hopefully), and the Miele name. Gone is the outer stainless tub and the high powered internal water heater. Perhaps Miele has added some special wash programs, but I suspect that's been dumbed down for wider appeal as well. As far as "Mega" goes, it's probably not much more the 2 cu ft, as you can't fit much more than that in a 24 inch cabinet. If it's a 27 inch model, then maybe the tub is competitive with current top end 110 volt offerings in the USA. But like I said before, it's a very crowded field, and I fear that Miele will be disappointed in sales.
 
Launderess,

Thanks for that link! If you click on "more images" it again shows the washer to the right of the dryer, so hopefully it will be a right hinged door.

The capacity is a bit amazing: 4 cu ft. No doubt an IEC rating, but still cavernous. And the units are listed as 27 inches wide (yay), 40" high, and 30" deep. These might just fit in my closet, although the depth might be an issue.

Plus a honeycomb drum. How cool is that?
 
~[In those days there were few dedicated 30a 220v dryer lines or even homes (in the US) that had the voltage or ampacity needed].

I stand corrected I should have said............In those days there were few dedicated 30a 220v dryer lines or even residences (in MY LITTLE PART OF THE US) that had the voltage or ampacity needed].

a 30a 220v dryer circuit is pushing one's luck on a 40a or 50a capacity service, IMHO

To this day my mother's house in NYC that was built in 1955 (Note: this is NOT an old house here) Has 50 amp 110/220v service per apt. It is a 2-family house.

The legal minimum, IIRC is/was not long ago, for a NYC apt where the cooking is gas and the landlord supplies (fossil-fueled) heat and hot water 40a 110/220v (i.e. 40a per hot leg).

....as a mater of fact I saw just last week an apartment building in the mid 20's (location) in Manhattan that has 30a 110v main service per apartment with two 15a circuits. Period full-stop. As far as I am concerned the BARE minimum in a NYC apt with a gas cooker is 4 circuits:

20a Washer & gas dryer
20a DW & REF
20a kitchen- toaster or m-wave or broiler, etc.
15a general lighting, small window air-conditioner not to exceed 750w (circa 10,500 BTU/h)

....and LOTS of experience managing the load so as not to exceed what the mains can carry. It is an art and a science, believe you me!
 
Sudsmaster-Don't think I would want to buy the current "Mega-Miele" washer with the dumbed down features and plastic outer tank-these have the tendency to break or crack from age.The SS one would last longer than most other parts of the machine!!Thats so funny about the 220V-in most instances the 15A 220V circuits are not much of a problem for an electrican to run if you have some "blank" spaces in your breaker panel and your house is fed with 150-220A 220V-120V service.In some dedicated home wood workshops-you may see TWO 220V outlets-a 30A one for the 3-5hp table saw and the 15A one for smaller 220V tools.And in one I saw they had a 60A outlet installed-same as for a stove-for the shops 24in planer with a 7Hp motor.
 
The wiring in this house is a bit screwy. There is a 50 amp 220 volt circuit that used to supply one electric cooktop and a full electric stove/oven (four burner). I replaced the electric cooktop with a gas cooktop. I took one leg of the 220 volt cooktop circuit and ran it to a separate 15 amp breaker box (Square D), creating a 110 volt 15 amp circuit with one outlet for the electric igniter. I am planning on changing the remaining electric stove over to gas, also, and will probably split that circuit out to two 110 volt 20 amp circuits to supply more power in that area (it's the patio kitchen).

The dryer circuit uses a 30 amp three prong 220 volt outlet; the breaker is rated at 40 amps. Go figure.

Togs, speaking of apartment wiring - my mom's old apartment building was rewired at some point. They took out all the fuse boxes in the apartments and direct wired each apartment to a single 40 amp breaker at the meter at the front of the building. I didn't discover this until I moved her out to a rest home, and I was a bit aghast at that arrangement. And of course most of the wiring was still knob and tube, except for a few surface conduit circuit extensions. I figure that removing the fuse boxes satisfied some code requirement but I can't believe that having an entire apartment set up on a single 40 amp breaker was right, either. Of course her stove was gas, the landlord supplied the hot water, and she had few other electrical loads - not even a space heater or a hair dryer.
 
Outer tubs on the new "uber" Miele washers are fiberglass, not plastic.

IIRC, Miele for the first time will "allow" liquid chlorine bleach in it's washing machines. No doubt they have given up trying to ween American's off the stuff, and are following Bosch's lead. So have a hunch the new material for outer tubs has some thing to do with this.

Also there is the fact that stainless steel is getting pretty pricey. Many front loaders are going to plastic or other materials for their outer tubs, instead of stainless or porcelian coated steel.

One thing to note about these new Miele units is they cannot be stacked, just like the uber-sized Bosch Nexxt units.

May consider one of these new Miele units in the future, but am quite happy with my vintage W770 series washer, and am in no hurry to swap. Long as she keeps going, and can be kept going, see not need to switch. Besides am not a huge fan of pre-set cycles based on textiles. I like to play around sometimes with cycles, using a little bit of this and a little bit of that to get a certian programme. These computer controlled washers do not allow that, or only with complicated work arounds.

Am going to telephone Miele in the morning to see if the brochures are available.

L.
 
"Fiberglass" is essentually glass or fiber reinforced plastic-and with bleach or any substance that can generate elemental Chlorine-any sort of plastic is not a good choice-the older porcelean finished steel drums would be better for frequent bleach users.plastics can be attacked and weakened by chlorine containing chemicals.Fiberglass is no Doubt tough-a racing boat builder(Fountain Yachts) uses it to make boats that can have two 600hp motors that can go over 200MPH-on the Pamilico Sound in NC.Their factory is right on the Sound.I would be concerned about exposing that to chlorine bleach .I can understand the ability to adjust washer controls to your liking and to whatever you are trying to wash-thats the good reason I am sticking to the "oldies"!
 
~The dryer circuit uses a 30 amp three prong 220 volt outlet; the breaker is rated at 40 amps. Go figure.

I hope the wire is #6 AWG gauge wire.
#10 AWG copper wire is rated to handle (and needs) 30a protection.
 
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