Ooooohhhhh!!! Interesting pictures indeed! That really is the new Mega Miele I think. I agree with Launderess it looks a bit common. It should have had at least a chrome door. Perhaps this is the BOL model?
Mega Miele?
- Thread starter sudsmaster
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Tolivac,
I'm sure you know this, but current Miele washers are built to run off USA spec 220v 15A circuits. It's the new one that they are dumbing down to run on 110 volt 15 amp circuits, probably to garner a larger market share.
As far as I'm concerned and can discern at this time, the only thing the new Miele has going for it, above the competition, is the right hinged door (hopefully), and the Miele name. Gone is the outer stainless tub and the high powered internal water heater. Perhaps Miele has added some special wash programs, but I suspect that's been dumbed down for wider appeal as well. As far as "Mega" goes, it's probably not much more the 2 cu ft, as you can't fit much more than that in a 24 inch cabinet. If it's a 27 inch model, then maybe the tub is competitive with current top end 110 volt offerings in the USA. But like I said before, it's a very crowded field, and I fear that Miele will be disappointed in sales.
I'm sure you know this, but current Miele washers are built to run off USA spec 220v 15A circuits. It's the new one that they are dumbing down to run on 110 volt 15 amp circuits, probably to garner a larger market share.
As far as I'm concerned and can discern at this time, the only thing the new Miele has going for it, above the competition, is the right hinged door (hopefully), and the Miele name. Gone is the outer stainless tub and the high powered internal water heater. Perhaps Miele has added some special wash programs, but I suspect that's been dumbed down for wider appeal as well. As far as "Mega" goes, it's probably not much more the 2 cu ft, as you can't fit much more than that in a 24 inch cabinet. If it's a 27 inch model, then maybe the tub is competitive with current top end 110 volt offerings in the USA. But like I said before, it's a very crowded field, and I fear that Miele will be disappointed in sales.
Link From Texas Craigslist is the Real McCoy
Follow the link to more information regarding the new Miele washer/dryer as shown above.
Follow the link to more information regarding the new Miele washer/dryer as shown above.
Oh Yes,
There will be a gas dryer as well.
There will be a gas dryer as well.
Launderess,
Thanks for that link! If you click on "more images" it again shows the washer to the right of the dryer, so hopefully it will be a right hinged door.
The capacity is a bit amazing: 4 cu ft. No doubt an IEC rating, but still cavernous. And the units are listed as 27 inches wide (yay), 40" high, and 30" deep. These might just fit in my closet, although the depth might be an issue.
Plus a honeycomb drum. How cool is that?
Thanks for that link! If you click on "more images" it again shows the washer to the right of the dryer, so hopefully it will be a right hinged door.
The capacity is a bit amazing: 4 cu ft. No doubt an IEC rating, but still cavernous. And the units are listed as 27 inches wide (yay), 40" high, and 30" deep. These might just fit in my closet, although the depth might be an issue.
Plus a honeycomb drum. How cool is that?
~[In those days there were few dedicated 30a 220v dryer lines or even homes (in the US) that had the voltage or ampacity needed].
I stand corrected I should have said............In those days there were few dedicated 30a 220v dryer lines or even residences (in MY LITTLE PART OF THE US) that had the voltage or ampacity needed].
a 30a 220v dryer circuit is pushing one's luck on a 40a or 50a capacity service, IMHO
To this day my mother's house in NYC that was built in 1955 (Note: this is NOT an old house here) Has 50 amp 110/220v service per apt. It is a 2-family house.
The legal minimum, IIRC is/was not long ago, for a NYC apt where the cooking is gas and the landlord supplies (fossil-fueled) heat and hot water 40a 110/220v (i.e. 40a per hot leg).
....as a mater of fact I saw just last week an apartment building in the mid 20's (location) in Manhattan that has 30a 110v main service per apartment with two 15a circuits. Period full-stop. As far as I am concerned the BARE minimum in a NYC apt with a gas cooker is 4 circuits:
20a Washer & gas dryer
20a DW & REF
20a kitchen- toaster or m-wave or broiler, etc.
15a general lighting, small window air-conditioner not to exceed 750w (circa 10,500 BTU/h)
....and LOTS of experience managing the load so as not to exceed what the mains can carry. It is an art and a science, believe you me!
I stand corrected I should have said............In those days there were few dedicated 30a 220v dryer lines or even residences (in MY LITTLE PART OF THE US) that had the voltage or ampacity needed].
a 30a 220v dryer circuit is pushing one's luck on a 40a or 50a capacity service, IMHO
To this day my mother's house in NYC that was built in 1955 (Note: this is NOT an old house here) Has 50 amp 110/220v service per apt. It is a 2-family house.
The legal minimum, IIRC is/was not long ago, for a NYC apt where the cooking is gas and the landlord supplies (fossil-fueled) heat and hot water 40a 110/220v (i.e. 40a per hot leg).
....as a mater of fact I saw just last week an apartment building in the mid 20's (location) in Manhattan that has 30a 110v main service per apartment with two 15a circuits. Period full-stop. As far as I am concerned the BARE minimum in a NYC apt with a gas cooker is 4 circuits:
20a Washer & gas dryer
20a DW & REF
20a kitchen- toaster or m-wave or broiler, etc.
15a general lighting, small window air-conditioner not to exceed 750w (circa 10,500 BTU/h)
....and LOTS of experience managing the load so as not to exceed what the mains can carry. It is an art and a science, believe you me!
Sudsmaster-Don't think I would want to buy the current "Mega-Miele" washer with the dumbed down features and plastic outer tank-these have the tendency to break or crack from age.The SS one would last longer than most other parts of the machine!!Thats so funny about the 220V-in most instances the 15A 220V circuits are not much of a problem for an electrican to run if you have some "blank" spaces in your breaker panel and your house is fed with 150-220A 220V-120V service.In some dedicated home wood workshops-you may see TWO 220V outlets-a 30A one for the 3-5hp table saw and the 15A one for smaller 220V tools.And in one I saw they had a 60A outlet installed-same as for a stove-for the shops 24in planer with a 7Hp motor.
The wiring in this house is a bit screwy. There is a 50 amp 220 volt circuit that used to supply one electric cooktop and a full electric stove/oven (four burner). I replaced the electric cooktop with a gas cooktop. I took one leg of the 220 volt cooktop circuit and ran it to a separate 15 amp breaker box (Square D), creating a 110 volt 15 amp circuit with one outlet for the electric igniter. I am planning on changing the remaining electric stove over to gas, also, and will probably split that circuit out to two 110 volt 20 amp circuits to supply more power in that area (it's the patio kitchen).
The dryer circuit uses a 30 amp three prong 220 volt outlet; the breaker is rated at 40 amps. Go figure.
Togs, speaking of apartment wiring - my mom's old apartment building was rewired at some point. They took out all the fuse boxes in the apartments and direct wired each apartment to a single 40 amp breaker at the meter at the front of the building. I didn't discover this until I moved her out to a rest home, and I was a bit aghast at that arrangement. And of course most of the wiring was still knob and tube, except for a few surface conduit circuit extensions. I figure that removing the fuse boxes satisfied some code requirement but I can't believe that having an entire apartment set up on a single 40 amp breaker was right, either. Of course her stove was gas, the landlord supplied the hot water, and she had few other electrical loads - not even a space heater or a hair dryer.
The dryer circuit uses a 30 amp three prong 220 volt outlet; the breaker is rated at 40 amps. Go figure.
Togs, speaking of apartment wiring - my mom's old apartment building was rewired at some point. They took out all the fuse boxes in the apartments and direct wired each apartment to a single 40 amp breaker at the meter at the front of the building. I didn't discover this until I moved her out to a rest home, and I was a bit aghast at that arrangement. And of course most of the wiring was still knob and tube, except for a few surface conduit circuit extensions. I figure that removing the fuse boxes satisfied some code requirement but I can't believe that having an entire apartment set up on a single 40 amp breaker was right, either. Of course her stove was gas, the landlord supplied the hot water, and she had few other electrical loads - not even a space heater or a hair dryer.
Outer tubs on the new "uber" Miele washers are fiberglass, not plastic.
IIRC, Miele for the first time will "allow" liquid chlorine bleach in it's washing machines. No doubt they have given up trying to ween American's off the stuff, and are following Bosch's lead. So have a hunch the new material for outer tubs has some thing to do with this.
Also there is the fact that stainless steel is getting pretty pricey. Many front loaders are going to plastic or other materials for their outer tubs, instead of stainless or porcelian coated steel.
One thing to note about these new Miele units is they cannot be stacked, just like the uber-sized Bosch Nexxt units.
May consider one of these new Miele units in the future, but am quite happy with my vintage W770 series washer, and am in no hurry to swap. Long as she keeps going, and can be kept going, see not need to switch. Besides am not a huge fan of pre-set cycles based on textiles. I like to play around sometimes with cycles, using a little bit of this and a little bit of that to get a certian programme. These computer controlled washers do not allow that, or only with complicated work arounds.
Am going to telephone Miele in the morning to see if the brochures are available.
L.
IIRC, Miele for the first time will "allow" liquid chlorine bleach in it's washing machines. No doubt they have given up trying to ween American's off the stuff, and are following Bosch's lead. So have a hunch the new material for outer tubs has some thing to do with this.
Also there is the fact that stainless steel is getting pretty pricey. Many front loaders are going to plastic or other materials for their outer tubs, instead of stainless or porcelian coated steel.
One thing to note about these new Miele units is they cannot be stacked, just like the uber-sized Bosch Nexxt units.
May consider one of these new Miele units in the future, but am quite happy with my vintage W770 series washer, and am in no hurry to swap. Long as she keeps going, and can be kept going, see not need to switch. Besides am not a huge fan of pre-set cycles based on textiles. I like to play around sometimes with cycles, using a little bit of this and a little bit of that to get a certian programme. These computer controlled washers do not allow that, or only with complicated work arounds.
Am going to telephone Miele in the morning to see if the brochures are available.
L.
"Fiberglass" is essentually glass or fiber reinforced plastic-and with bleach or any substance that can generate elemental Chlorine-any sort of plastic is not a good choice-the older porcelean finished steel drums would be better for frequent bleach users.plastics can be attacked and weakened by chlorine containing chemicals.Fiberglass is no Doubt tough-a racing boat builder(Fountain Yachts) uses it to make boats that can have two 600hp motors that can go over 200MPH-on the Pamilico Sound in NC.Their factory is right on the Sound.I would be concerned about exposing that to chlorine bleach .I can understand the ability to adjust washer controls to your liking and to whatever you are trying to wash-thats the good reason I am sticking to the "oldies"!
~The dryer circuit uses a 30 amp three prong 220 volt outlet; the breaker is rated at 40 amps. Go figure.
I hope the wire is #6 AWG gauge wire.
#10 AWG copper wire is rated to handle (and needs) 30a protection.
I hope the wire is #6 AWG gauge wire.
#10 AWG copper wire is rated to handle (and needs) 30a protection.
"These computer controlled washers do not allow that, or only with complicated work arounds. "
The Neptune 7500 is/was an exception to this rule. It allows just about any combination of water temp, wash speed, spin speed, wash time, pre-soak, stain cycle, number of rinses, etc. that you might dream up. And you can save your recipes in multiple "Favorites" custom combinations. Plus, if you jump into diag mode, you can force the washer to fill, drain, etc. as you please. Good for purging the hot water line.
Too bad more washers don't offer the 7500's flexibility.
The Neptune 7500 is/was an exception to this rule. It allows just about any combination of water temp, wash speed, spin speed, wash time, pre-soak, stain cycle, number of rinses, etc. that you might dream up. And you can save your recipes in multiple "Favorites" custom combinations. Plus, if you jump into diag mode, you can force the washer to fill, drain, etc. as you please. Good for purging the hot water line.
Too bad more washers don't offer the 7500's flexibility.
Another NYC 220V Problem
NYC code requires that when any electrical upgrade work is done, if there is a fuse box it must be replaced with a circut breaker panel/box. There are LOTS of apartments/condos,co-ops in NYC that still have fuse boxes, so if one wishes to upgrade to 220v power, it is more than say just adding another circut to the panel or even a sub-box. This is another reason Miele 220v washers, indeed any 220v appliance would run in extra costs for electrical work.
Considering how many apartments/co-ops/condos in NYC do not even allow laundry appliances, sneaking in the aforementioned appliances AND doing electrical work is running fast and loose with one's landlord/building board. Now some people have made "arrangements" with electricans to do the work and sumggled in contraband appliances. They will also get the electrican not to file the proper papers with the city regarding the electrical work, so there is no record. These tricks aren't limited to middle income or "poor people", but rather some very high worth people who just wish to have a washer and dryer. Problem is what happens if the building/landlord finds out about the electrical work/laundry appliances.
There have been cases of persons getting away with the above, until the apartment is sold (in the case of co-op or condo), and the new owner naturally assumes all electrical work and indeed the laundry appliances were approved by the building. They are rudely awakened when the building tells them it approved no such thing and the appliances must go. They will consider the electrical upgrade work a "bonus" and leave it as it was, as that really cannot be changed.
Now, if one hires a fully licensed and good electrican, then the upgrade work should be fine, indeed NYC renters have been known to entirely redo their apartments, including new kitchens with or without their landlords written permission. Problems will arise if something like a fire breaks out and it can be traced back to faulty electrical work. Then all bets are off. Friends of ours had the elctrical work in their appartment upgraded for a Miele, and extra outlets added (they only had like four circuts and one or two outlets in the main living area. So far things have been ok, and their landlord hasn't caught on. Their electrican said he does that sort of thing all the time.
The above shows some of the problems Miele faced with 220v only appliances. If you cannot sell such units in one of the highest income areas of the United States, then don't fancy your chances elsewhere in the nation. Persons with larger homes also didn't like the "small" Miele units. They agreed with Consumer Reports about the lack of capacity. So in the end Miele has addressed both issues with these new models. They hold more and run on 120V power, well at least the washing machine. Though don't see anyone sumggling in a 40" tall washing machine. *LOL*
L.
NYC code requires that when any electrical upgrade work is done, if there is a fuse box it must be replaced with a circut breaker panel/box. There are LOTS of apartments/condos,co-ops in NYC that still have fuse boxes, so if one wishes to upgrade to 220v power, it is more than say just adding another circut to the panel or even a sub-box. This is another reason Miele 220v washers, indeed any 220v appliance would run in extra costs for electrical work.
Considering how many apartments/co-ops/condos in NYC do not even allow laundry appliances, sneaking in the aforementioned appliances AND doing electrical work is running fast and loose with one's landlord/building board. Now some people have made "arrangements" with electricans to do the work and sumggled in contraband appliances. They will also get the electrican not to file the proper papers with the city regarding the electrical work, so there is no record. These tricks aren't limited to middle income or "poor people", but rather some very high worth people who just wish to have a washer and dryer. Problem is what happens if the building/landlord finds out about the electrical work/laundry appliances.
There have been cases of persons getting away with the above, until the apartment is sold (in the case of co-op or condo), and the new owner naturally assumes all electrical work and indeed the laundry appliances were approved by the building. They are rudely awakened when the building tells them it approved no such thing and the appliances must go. They will consider the electrical upgrade work a "bonus" and leave it as it was, as that really cannot be changed.
Now, if one hires a fully licensed and good electrican, then the upgrade work should be fine, indeed NYC renters have been known to entirely redo their apartments, including new kitchens with or without their landlords written permission. Problems will arise if something like a fire breaks out and it can be traced back to faulty electrical work. Then all bets are off. Friends of ours had the elctrical work in their appartment upgraded for a Miele, and extra outlets added (they only had like four circuts and one or two outlets in the main living area. So far things have been ok, and their landlord hasn't caught on. Their electrican said he does that sort of thing all the time.
The above shows some of the problems Miele faced with 220v only appliances. If you cannot sell such units in one of the highest income areas of the United States, then don't fancy your chances elsewhere in the nation. Persons with larger homes also didn't like the "small" Miele units. They agreed with Consumer Reports about the lack of capacity. So in the end Miele has addressed both issues with these new models. They hold more and run on 120V power, well at least the washing machine. Though don't see anyone sumggling in a 40" tall washing machine. *LOL*
L.
Understood, Toggle. However, I hope you see the irony in a large home with 220 volt service not wanting a Miele or other 220 volt washer because the capacity is too small.
The logical solution would be to provide a large 220 volt washer, for such large homes, not a large 110 volt washer.
And, although New Yorkers may not be inclined to believe it, NYC doesn't equal the rest of the nation. For example, what are the best selling dryers in the USA? Electric. What voltage do they take? 220 volt. So ... if there is a huge market for 220 volt electric dryers there should also be a market for 220 volt washers (with provision to share the outlet for a dryer, ala Miele). Not to mention, that there are plenty of laundry rooms with 220 volt outlets but the owner uses a gas dryer instead (like my laundry facility). So I have a 30 amp 220 volt outlet in my laundry room just sitting there, unused, unless I want to drag my arc welder into the family room to blind the parakeet.
The logical solution would be to provide a large 220 volt washer, for such large homes, not a large 110 volt washer.
And, although New Yorkers may not be inclined to believe it, NYC doesn't equal the rest of the nation. For example, what are the best selling dryers in the USA? Electric. What voltage do they take? 220 volt. So ... if there is a huge market for 220 volt electric dryers there should also be a market for 220 volt washers (with provision to share the outlet for a dryer, ala Miele). Not to mention, that there are plenty of laundry rooms with 220 volt outlets but the owner uses a gas dryer instead (like my laundry facility). So I have a 30 amp 220 volt outlet in my laundry room just sitting there, unused, unless I want to drag my arc welder into the family room to blind the parakeet.
All things considered, a pure 200v front loader has more "umph" than it's 120v cousins. Most all commercial/laundromat washing machines, even small capacity models run on 220v power only. This includes pumps (if any), drain valves, motor and so forth. IIRC a 220v motor for instance is allot more resistant to being over loaded than say a 120v one would be. This is great for a front loader as it could take the abuse of being over loaded.
Problem with American's is they for the most part have large supplies of tanked hot water, and or use LCB for disenfecting, whitening and stain removal in laundry. Once the need for powerful heaters is removed, then a 120v machine is fine, as 1300 watts or so can heat the small amount of water used by today's front loaders easily. It may take longer than a 3000w/220v front loader, but still it can be done.
L.
Problem with American's is they for the most part have large supplies of tanked hot water, and or use LCB for disenfecting, whitening and stain removal in laundry. Once the need for powerful heaters is removed, then a 120v machine is fine, as 1300 watts or so can heat the small amount of water used by today's front loaders easily. It may take longer than a 3000w/220v front loader, but still it can be done.
L.
Most 15 amp 110 volt washers max out their heating elements at 1000 watts, not 1300. That's because the motor and electronics take up additional power (esp amperage), and, unless you want the motor to stop while the heater coil is working, then you've got to keep the heating watts down.
My Neptune has a 1,000 watt element and it can heat water at about 1 degree/minute for an average size load. If you consider that many hot water heaters are set at 120F, and most machines cool down the water at least 10 degrees upon filling, then your getting 110F to start the wash. Let's say you want to heat that to a respectable 140F for good cleaning and sanitation. That will take 30 minutes, at least.
But wait, another strong American trait is impatience. Add 30 minutes to a 60 minute wash cycle (typical) and you're got a 1.5 hr wash cycle. I can hear the complaints now. And god forbid you want to do a 150F or higher "Sanitizing" cycle. That might take 40 extra minutes. A 220 volt machine would readily avoid that kind of problem.
My Neptune has a 1,000 watt element and it can heat water at about 1 degree/minute for an average size load. If you consider that many hot water heaters are set at 120F, and most machines cool down the water at least 10 degrees upon filling, then your getting 110F to start the wash. Let's say you want to heat that to a respectable 140F for good cleaning and sanitation. That will take 30 minutes, at least.
But wait, another strong American trait is impatience. Add 30 minutes to a 60 minute wash cycle (typical) and you're got a 1.5 hr wash cycle. I can hear the complaints now. And god forbid you want to do a 150F or higher "Sanitizing" cycle. That might take 40 extra minutes. A 220 volt machine would readily avoid that kind of problem.
Commercial FL washers no doubt would run from 3Ph 208 or 220V.You would figure the facility would have sevral such machines-would not be practical to run them from 120V.the controls for the 3Ph motors and the motor itself would be less expensive than its 120V cousin of the same power.Remember 3Ph motors don't need starting equipment such as start windings,start caps and centrifical starting switches on the motors rotor.And its easier to reverse the 3Ph motor-just reverse one of the phases feeding the motor.I would also bet the commerical washer may not need a heater-the facility boiler or water heater could already heat the water to the high temp.I would be concerned for many of todays synthetic fabrics-woven plastic for the most part-the high heat could distort or melt the fibers.also the high temps can damage elastic waistbands.For my laundering needs would not need the reheat cycles-the water is already hot enough-and the bonus-saving more energy by NOT having to reheat the water.And oh yes-then have shorter cycles by not having to wait for the water to be reheated in the machine.It would seem reheat machines run on 120V you would have the choice of not running the heating element and the motor at the same time-a 1000W heater and the washer motor running at the same time would overtax the 120V15A circuit.
3 phase machines
Most of the commerical are 3phase however with the newer veri drive machines most will now go single or 3 phase . All of our machines are 3 ot 4 years old and they all can be single or 3 phase with just a change of a incoming wire.
Most of the commerical are 3phase however with the newer veri drive machines most will now go single or 3 phase . All of our machines are 3 ot 4 years old and they all can be single or 3 phase with just a change of a incoming wire.
Sounds like the "conversion" from single phase to 3ph is done in the electronic motor controller-the electronic VFD type controller could provide the missing "phase" if the machine was run from a single phase 220V line.
lombardian
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Saw the 4.0 cubic ft washer at abt electronics. I placed an order. 1400 rpm spin speed, and great build quality. Heats the water to 170 and runs on 110.
I will be happy to answer any questions that I possibly can... I think the longest cycle on the w4840 is 2:10. Shortest is :30. Gas dryer available April 07 and the electric is available along with the new washers. The miele rep said the dryer was between .5-8 cu ft... not sure about that, it didnt look that big, but who is to say. I received a brochure but those specs are not in there.
Hope this bit of info helps
I will be happy to answer any questions that I possibly can... I think the longest cycle on the w4840 is 2:10. Shortest is :30. Gas dryer available April 07 and the electric is available along with the new washers. The miele rep said the dryer was between .5-8 cu ft... not sure about that, it didnt look that big, but who is to say. I received a brochure but those specs are not in there.
Hope this bit of info helps
