Miele Mechanical Timer Not Advancing

[launderess]

So here's me doing a bit of washing on Sunday with the Miele W1075. Wasn't paying total attention but suddenly it dawned upon one that wash cycle was taking rather long time to finish.

Finally washer did get round to draining wash water, filled for first rinse, then sat sitting there. Noticed while could hear the normal clicks, wasn't hearing the purring of mechanical timer's gears.... This is not good...

Turns out washer's timer seems to be kaput! It will click off increments, but won't advance. Well not all the time and on time anyway. When moved to certain points in drain or spin timer will click over to next bit, but that's all.

Will give a call to Miele USA on Monday to see what there is; highly doubt timer motor (or worse) electronic control are still available for this machine. More to the point if they are and cost quite dear will have to make a decision...

Much as one loves "Big Bertha" she is getting on, and if this latest incident is going to run three or more hundred in parts and labor will have to consider options.

Washer long has needed a hot water inlet solenoid (NLA from Miele USA), and don't think cold water triple inlet is available either.

 

[kenmoreguy89]

Sorry to hear that.
I'm sure timers or timer motors in Europe for your kind if machine are plentily available, problem is timers for miele washers sold in the US Market are different I suppose as they run on a 60hz cycle current, you can convert voltage but not cycle.
A 50hz would run faster.Too bad because I happen to have 3 motors for a Miele crouzet in my stash that i took from some Miele I have dismantled.

 

[kenmoreguy89]

For the hot water solenoid cannot you just adapt a generic 3 way one?

 

[ozzie908]

@launderess

Your Miele woes may not be as bad as you think !

Are you able to get a pic of the timer motor and hopefully its label?

Am sure there is a spare out there somewhere!!

Good luck in keeping Bertha going she is a long time faithful servant who with luck is not ready for the pasture just yet...

Austin

 

[kenmoreguy89]

Somewhere for sure.

Donor machines could pop out.
Usually older Miele units in the US goes out for "cheap" mostly because a lot of folks just don't want to do the required electrical works.
Matter is having patience.
Good side of the story is that if it is the timer motor is not hard at all to replace and you may not need to call anybody

 

[kenmoreguy89]

I guess I will have the same problem the day the timer of my filter flo or the whirlpool will give up on me.
I could though install a 60hz 120v timer motor and wire it in order to pass through a step down converter inside the machine or change the wash motor and turn it into a full 120v 60hz unit then who cares if setting 18minutes i actually get 23-25 and if a 10 mins spin will last 15.
Problem would be if setting 18 mins i get 12.
But you cannot do that for a miele and in reverse so put a 220v 50hz component and run it on 120v 60hz.
I'm not customed to Miele's for US market.

 

[launderess]

Thanks for the suggestions and well wishes.

Won't be sure until can ring up Miele but think timer part number is 02085001.

Do know from nosing around inside this machine over years pretty much everything is 120v/50hz including electronic control board (which oddly is stamped "Made In France"....).

Am waiting for a few bits to arrive so can begin wiring up that huge frequency converter and sort out the AEG Lavamat toplader, so likely won't go looking inside the Miele this week. Have the Maytag wringer, Hoover TT, AEG Lavamat front and toplader so am pretty spoiled for choice. Hahahaha.

Reading up on things last night common advice may have one arranging a call out from Miele, that or must brush up on certain testing before assuming off bat timer motor is gone.

FWIU timers require (and will wait for) certain signals before advancing. This timer will advance after filling (wash or rinse), but not after draining. Also machine will spin if timer is moved to that portion of cycle, but then will advance to stop. Can hear drum doing at least one set of distribution tumbles, then things just stop; that is pump keeps working, but timer does not advance to spin again on its own. If one moves timer it will spin but not advance. Once moved to end of spinning timer will advance to distribution tumble,then click off.

From what one read it is wise to rule out things like relay or something else that is supposed to be sending a signal, but isn't.

Did find one person who had similar issue who replaced timer motor, and it made no difference.

 

[launderess]

Well that was a waste of time....

Miele's call center in India (where one was transferred) informed that have correct part number (02085001), but it is NLA because machine is "old", and Miele no longer manufactures...

Sadly my trusted Miele repair person from Westchester closed down his business, and dealing with Princeton (or wherever was transferred for service) was an exercise in futility.

"Machine is old, and no longer made" he said. "The only models we have now are the W1 series that start at $1,1000.....".

So basically am on my own with this. MieleUSA is obviously doing plenty of WFM with tech support (covid-19), and had no luck reaching any of the "old men" techs that knew these machines.

Tech did offer to set up a call out, but can't see paying $200 for someone to tell me what already pretty much know; timer is bad but Miele doesn't have the part....

Can find timer motors for European cousin of this washer (W770), but they all are 220v/50hz, and one needs 115v/60hz (as per part specifications).

 

[kenmoreguy89]

So your timer is 60hz as I thought, you before have written 120v 50hz which left me puzzled as options were that they mounted a special rpm reducing gear speed as it would run faster on the 50hz you get on your tension...
From what you tell maybe is indeed only a relay.
Try finding the relay and if not that much costly you might try to replace it.
As a last chance you might try to detach the timer motor and bring it to a clock repair shop or restorer if any nearby, they might find a right replacement for the motor winding.
Some timers also have a capacitor or resistors that can go bad.
Try open the machine and see if you spot some blown components
Unfortunately putting a step up converter to feed an hypothetical european 220v 50hz timer motor will fix the voltage (other than being bigger than step down ones) but not the cycle.

Too bad bevause as I said i have ones i detached from some machines.

 

[kenmoreguy89]

Your timer should have two motors on the back anyways.

 

[kenmoreguy89]

Does your timer look like this?

 

[kenmoreguy89]

Would run faster on the 50hz you get on your tension

60hz pardon...

 

[kenmoreguy89]

I anyways think it is not impossibile to find an adaptable 120v 60hz timer motor with same torque speed and specifics. You might need to change the pin and or adapt another holder thingy....and of course use two regular faston connectors instead of the original connector.

 

[launderess]

So far have found this, but not sure it applies to my situation.

https://circuitmaker.com/blog/about-open-source-washing-machines

 

[launderess]

Here is German cousin of my W1070, the W770.

Timer on my washer no longer makes the loud/audible clicking sound (like a clock) as before. It just clicks now and then as portions of time are reached or what not, but timer does not and will not advance on own.



Here is the W765 an earlier machine but basically same.

https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?44183_17

Here is W1065 (same machine as mine but with porthole instead of solid door. Again mine no longer makes that ticking sound from timer.

 

[kenmoreguy89]

That link looks like talks about a bad motor capacitor, which is not your case.
Older miele's used an hybrid motor that it is induction and brushes and the brush part is for the high spin speed and needed a capacitor for the induction portion.
A bad capacitor would mean basket not turning and motor humming. But timer still advancing.
Your machine surely have a timer problem and if you do not hear the clock like sound anymore 98% the timer motor is kaput so it does not advance.
Miele machines such as yours are not completely mechanical but they have a control board located in a white box in the corner of the openable front that controls partial phases of the washing and the spin.
The click you hear probably are impulses given to the timer to continue but will not advance missing the motor torque.
Now, that would be a extremely easy fix to take the old motor off and snap in another one, really easy as pie, but the problem here is finding a timer motor that would run on your frequency and voltage.
Miele did make its timers but they were made with parts made by others, crouzet mostly but one has also seen ones made by Ako.
Motors for timers were Crouzet motors so must be the one in your machine.
Miele had made by Crouzet same timer motors as the European machines but that would run on different voltage and cycle but putting out same torque
Now I'm not sure what the approach was from Miele USA techs for a bad timer motor back then but most of them would surely replace the whole timer assembly rather than just the motor, or at least suggest it.
That is what they did for any brands typically.
In Europe that would not be a problem as a Miele techs would surely have a spare timer motor somewhere taking dust in a box but in USA is different story I guess.
If you still have a mobile number of the guy that used to fix Miele's around you even though he closed the business you might try give him a call and ask if he has a timer motor laying around or that he took off from another unit... chances are he didn't get rid of everything or maybe knows of someone who can have one.
They could ecen give you one for free...
A typical customer would not just attempt to fix it and knowing the part is NLA would just say "well it's over".
But we're not the typicaL customers
That is what the Miele staff also told you...they do not care anymore of any mechanical models that old.

If not a Crouzet motor you might still be able to adapt a generic timer motor with same torque speed.
Or you might find a Crouzet motor from a dishwasher or an oven, miele dishwashers timers were not different from washers, or you might get a timer motor from another completely different device, crouzet made-makes timers for electrical timers of any sorts, after all a timer motor is a timer motor and they are all similar...

 

[kenmoreguy89]

I'm sorry because I have three of them basically doing nothing inside my storage room but of course wrong voltage and cycle.
While timer motor could stand being fed by a lower voltage frequency is higher your miele would advance too fast..

 

[launderess]

Hello Kenmoreguy89!

Was up half the night doing some research.

My Miele W1070 is cousin to the European W770 washer.

According to technical/service manual that series did indeed take timers made by Crouzet. They look like the one you posted above.

While it is not possible to open up timer itself for repair, it *may* be possible to swap out timer motor. Say so because found this on eBay Germany

 

[kenmoreguy89]

P.S
By checking further the part number 02085001 the service gave you is indeed for a whole timer assembly.
As I said I doubt they sold or had the timer motor only as a listed part, but a good technician would have known he could replace the timer motor only and would have one in their stash.

 

[kenmoreguy89]

Yes
But as I said your machine probably does have a motor for 120-volt 60 hz if you can open up your machine and take a picture of what the motor says on the back we can have further informations to start a research for a compatible timer motor.

 

[kenmoreguy89]

If you wish I can mail you one I have and see if it does anyway even being fed with a different voltage-frequency.
As you can see it's a matter of unscrewing two screws take the motor out and put in another one. And reconnect.
It's an easy job.

 

[launderess]

Know from last time poked around inside Big Bertha the timer and perhaps electronic module have French wording.

However you can see, well you see the timer motor pictured above will accept 50hz or 60hz. Leaving aside what if anything governs change in speed that would come from 10% faster frequency, motor is clearly labeled 220v.

One knows for fact nothing in this washer runs on 220v; this though power requirements state 120v/220v. Aside from powering both legs of heater, the 220v does nothing else. Pump is 120v (had it swapped out and kept the old), and the muet (motor) can be wired to run on 220v, 120v, etc.... it is all the same motor.

Of course this washer has no transformer (why would it?), so don't believe a 220v timer motor will work, It it didn't mind what voltage was received it would state range such as 120v-220v....

 

[kenmoreguy89]

Also... It may be that it got humidity and got stuck. A light spray of wd 40 will free it.
Worst hypothesis is some of the gears inside the timer also got stuck, hopefully not broken...
First try would be detach the timer motor start the machine and see if the pin turns.
If it turns either you have gears stuck inside that timer or at worst broken but that is the worst possible (and unlikely) scenario.
This is a crouzet from a Zanussi machine.

 

[launderess]

"timer motor only and would have one in their stash.&#34

If only!

Miele hasn't sold a mechanical timer washer in North America since 1992 when production of w1065/w1070 ended. Everything afterwards (W19XX to now W1) are all totally electronically controlled.

Virtually all the old school Miele techs who started out back in 1980's or 1990's who were familiar with these machines from actual experience either have retired, or otherwise moved on. Asked Miele about the last tech who came out to do the suspension repair a few years ago, response was he left as well.

Techs hired since about 2000 or so are only trained on 19XX and above model washers. That information was given about ten years ago so they may not even know 19xx series either.

Ideally an old school tech would have parts wanted in his stash, but finding one would be like a needle in proverbial haystack.

 

[kenmoreguy89]

Yeah.
I imagined that in the United States could be harder that's why I said in the Undertaker be different story but I thought there could be some old school techs still around.
Anyways...
Taking about the timer motor, I have seen that the one you posted states 50-60hz, but a certain accuracy I think it depends on models for example I think of my w427 and the fact that it only Tumbles 3-4 times before kicking into spin, if it went faster it would jump to spin sooner, but it is also true that machines such as yours are partially electronic and spin and tumble is controlled by the board, it would've been a problem like in a wholly mechanical one.
I know that it doesn't mention a double voltage but maybe that would not be a big problem for a tiny winding such the one of a timer.
Anyways the only thing to do now is to open up your machine look what your timer motor says on the back and possibly try it detached so that you're sure there is nothing wrong inside the timer.

 

[kenmoreguy89]

* in the United States could be different story.

 

[kenmoreguy89]

Anyways again if nothing turns out or we have "happy revelations" about what your timer says I tell you again I have three and they are basically doing nothing inside my house nor will as I plan to move soon and not to grab any Miele's to repair so...I might anyway be more happy to know they went and passed away in a mission in the name of experiment and science rather than lying in the box and being tossed in the trash.
At worst I waist €8 for postage...

 

[launderess]

Right then!

Thank you Kenmoreguy89 for reaching out with your offers of assistance, and kind words of encouragement in general. Very much appreciated...

It's a muggy wet evening so with nothing else shaking popped open the Miele to have a peep.

There are two discs on back of programmer/timer, but don't know which is the motor

Left - Crouzet 82432043 213 2268 60hz

Right - Crouzet 82432035 2267 115v 60hz

Note these parts must be 115v or 120v, as one guessed upthread there isn't a converter in these machines, a 220v part would just fry itself to death.

Found parts diagram for W770 and it does appear as if these two timer "motors" or whatever they are called detach. This makes sense IMHO for a start because Miele was selling what were essentially 120v washing machines in North America. Far cheaper to slap on 120v 60hz timer motors than have entire timers made just for that power system.

This hopefully will give one more options; if can locate just timer motor bits that are 120v/60hz with proper connections a swap might just do trick.

 

[kenmoreguy89]

The two discs are the two motors your machine mounts...
The left one possibly is the one that failed.
As I suggested the first thing to try will be to detach them and start the machine being careful of course not to touch any of the contacts in the timer as they might be powered as you start the machine and look if they spin or not.
You just need to remove the clamp holding them place .
To research a new one the first thing I would do is to contact who made those.
I already tried to look up on the Crouzet website to see if with the parts numbers given something popped out, it did not but maybe trying contacting them via phone or mail will help locating what you need or something adaptable...


https://soda.crouzet.com/stock-check/

 

[henene4]

Just a guess

Your's - as far as I understand - only uses the electronics for motor tasks and such.

Dunno if your heater runs over the electronics but might not even be the case.

The 2 timer motors are again as far as I understand a normal "slow" timer motor that does normal advancing (that egg timer sound you are missing) and the rapid advance timer.

Since you describe that the fast clicking forward works, the rapid advance timer motor appears to work.

That egg-timer-noise you describe missing is the normal timer motor that times stuff like for how long to spin etc.

That is just my remote idea of what is going on.