Miele USA W1's Water Inlet Error After Prewash

[henene4]

US version - long post again

So the WXI860 in the US appears to be basically the same as the WWI860 in the EU.

This machine over here has the WaterPlus option that can be programmed to either act as an Extra Rinse button, a More Water button or both at the same time.
For the US they probably decided to abandon that and made ExtraRinse a fixed button for both not to confuse customers.
The UK version of the manual actually nicely explains the different versions of WaterPlus that were intended to be on that machine.

I would bet that activating bleaching on the US model would also deactivate PowerWash.

I am wondering though how they incorporated the hot fill on the US model.
As I said before, I am almost certain the error this thread was about was caused by a missed adaption the code when they had to fit in the hot fill valve into the programming.

I would almost bet that when the US versions start they do the first fill with only cold.
Then they run the load sense spin.
If they then decide on PW they wouldn't use the hot fill at all.
It's really funny when you look at the machine deciding against the PW cycle because the load is to large: The time resets and the door fill starts immediatley, like the machine just resets itself as it wasn't a PW machine.

I guess that with a pre-wash the first fill happend as it should with cold.
The next fill would have been directly with the hot valve active.
And that that's where somebody messed up in changing an adress and thus the machine thinks its calling for water via hot valve, but actually dosen't call for anything, and sees no movement in the flow meter and thus goes straight into a fill fault.
Basically that reset behaviour dosen't happen, thus some adressing isn't reset for the fill, thus the error.

What would be interesting now would be the Australian version of the WWI860.
This has the EU-programming for a large part, but also has the hot fill from the US version.

So it has the bigger heater, beinng 240V, the EU functions and cycle setup, but the hot fill option aswell.

The only version that has both PW and a hot fill in the EU is the TOL Passion model that has M-Touch and a steam generator, thus a different water valve setup (probably a motorised diverter like the "old days").

 

[stephen]

@henene4

Thank you for the great explanation and knowledge of PowerWash!
I want to upgrade to a model that has PW.
As I mentioned I have the WWH860 and it only utilizes PowerWash on Cold Washes, and no matter the size of the load.
I would love to hear your perspective on why this is the case.
From what I have seen on YouTube PW shaves off time.
I was thinking that the US models already had a short cycle time to begin with.
I can do a 30 degree C wash in just over an hour. That is probably why US models didn’t have PW for heated cycles until the new WXI860. This leads me to believe that the new WXI model with PW has longer cycle times, which are still way shorter than non-US washers.

 

[henene4]

As I said, hot water filling kind of negates the point of PW.
The one machine over here having both a hot fill and PW dosen't use PW if a hot fill is selected.

So filling with hot will probably have switched of PW just because it is/was more efficient. Thus only on cold.
The gains in efficiency would have been minute. Time savings huge though...

PW cycles are generally longer. You just need a longer time to heat as you can't keep the heater on continuously.
The shortest main wash on Cotton's over here is still about an hour.
The normal main wash is about 90min.

If the US uses PW like the EU cycles will be longer for certain.

Though I could imagine a different PW version being used in the US.
Maybe something more akin to what QuickPowerWash is over here - using a high water amount and the wetter PW mode.
Maybe they managed to integrate starting water temp into the calculations and thus can run PW with hot fills.

I mean, QuickPowerWash over here has almost an hour of main wash if you deselect the time saver option.

So yeah, haven't seen much of any action for the US machines.
All this is extrapolated from the EU version and Miele really hasn't been known to go out of their ways to reinvent the wheel for the US market since the W4xxx Desaster...

 

[tomdawg]

Thank you for that explanation!

On my W4842 model I have the option to change country settings to EU, AU, French? And English. Would this change the way how Miele washers act? I would believe this could be applied to the W1

 

[mrboilwash]

I`m sorry to rain on everybody`s parade, but after watching the Powerwash video and another one about Powerwash rinse and spin I can only say I hope Miele will keep some models without it in the future.

At first I don`t like the idea of draining part of the detergent laden water and replace it with fresh water after the saturation stage to get the ideal water level for efficient heating by steam.
What a waste of detergent!
After all there seems to be a huge amount of chemicals wasted mostly unused just to save a little bit of energy.

Next thing I don`t like is that all the heating is only controlled by a flow meter and calculation. Flow meters can get very unreliable in certain water conditions when they get older.
Why didn`t they go with an infrared thermometer in the boot pointing at the laundry instead?

Don`t get me started on recirculation pumps in washers in general.
Just think of what they might spray onto your clothes if you haven`t used your washer for a while and wanted to do a 30 °C wash at first. Yuck!

Additionally at the commence of each rinse it dumps a lot of suds onto the clothes which have been spun out in the interim spins before.

Don`t get me wrong I`m all for buying German whenever possible because I can`t afford to buy cheap, but Powerwash seems a bit too overengineered for my liking.

End of rant

 

[henene4]

Before draining for heating, the newer models at least run the recirculation pump for about a minute to spray as much of the water back into the load as possible.
Usually the pump runs completely dry on mine before draining.

So wastage is minimal.

Heating that way in general isn't a temp exact thing with PW.
A 5° difference isn't unusual, but unless you select an Eco cycle, the machine usually heats to overshoot ever so slightly.

Except for the QuickPowerWash, no rinse cycle uses the recirculation until the final rinse.
So the sump is flushed before any wash water could be recirculated.

 

[logixx]

Then there are also his videos. Cotton 140F with TwinDos Color.

The bar on top of the video says: drenching, heating, wash, dilution, and then times and spinning.

The graph on the left shows consumption values.

 

[henene4]

My issues have been fixed with an over the air update

So, I got home from work yesterday evening.
Wanted to chuck my work shirts in when my machine quoted me with an "Up" message on the display.

Hit start and walked off for a minute thinking that might take a bit.
But no, update was done quite quickly.

So I thought I'd check today on a load of towels and it did indeed do a cool down with no issues.

 

[stephen]

App still not functioning though

App still not working for me though. It says my dryer is running even though it isn’t. And I can’t start a cycle using Mobile-Control.
Sent email to Miele. First reply was first level; re-install app, etc.
second reply is as follows…

Hello Stephen,

I understand you're wondering when will the app be fixed as you're currently having issues with mobile-control. I will be more than happy to look into this matter for you! First i would like to apologize for any frustration this matter may have caused you. At this time, we do not have a set date of when the app will be fixed but i can ensure you we are working hard to resolve all issues. Remote updates are made available when necessary, as you do not need to take action yourself. If there is no update available, then the appliance is up to date. When an update is available, a notification will appear in the app and on the appliance.

If you need any more assistance please contact Miele at 1-888-99-MIELE (64353) or visit us online at www.mieleusa.com

Thank you for contacting Miele.
Mashayla Johnson


Miele Inc. | 9 Independence Way | Princeton NJ 08540 | United States

 

[stephen]

Miele customer service

Has anyone here with the intake error on the WWH860 had any results speaking to Miele (other than bbjwvr6)?

 

[jerrod_six]

I have the WWH860 but have not had any water intake issues. I am holding off from updating the phone app until I hear its problems have been resolved. Do you notice anything new in the app - other than the fact that it is not working correctly?

 

[stephen]

Laundry Assistant is gone.
Can’t select a cycle using MobileControl.
TwinDos percentages gone. Now just says SUFFICIENT.
And no matter where in the cycle it is, it always says MAIN WASH.
Have you tried using Pre-Wash? I am assuming yes. LOL

 

[jerrod_six]

Twin Dos percentages are gone? That doesn't make any sense. How are you supposed to how much is left so you can order more? No excuse for the app not telling you what portion of the cycle the machine is in. I mean it's not like the machine can't tell the app because it always could before this update. I'm glad I didn't let the app get updated.

I have been doing the cold fill prewash, followed by a 140F or a 122F wash and so far have not had the water intake problem.

 

[jerrod_six]

Stephen

I think you and everyone else that has upgraded the app should go to your phone app store and rate the app. This way the actual app developers might get first-hand information about what is needed to correct it. Rate the app and leave a description of what is wrong with it and what it should be doing. Mention the functionality that was in the prior app version that is now missing in this version. Rate it with 1 star or 0 stars if possible.

 

[stephen]

@jerrod_six

Unfortunately you can’t rate a Zero. So a ONE it is. And here is what I wrote:

Ever since downloading this new version, my experience with Miele has soured.
This update was a downgrade. I use the app to monitor my Washer and Dryer.
You used to be able to view how much detergent you had left, you used to be able to start a cycle with the app, used to be able to tell what part of the cycle the machine was, and used to be able get cycle recommendations via Laundry Assistant. All of this is gone. Miele knows about the issue, but it has been months now, and still no resolution. Why not roll back the old version, or at least customer service should be able to send you the old version upon request. You pay $4,000 for a Miele Washing Machine and Dryer; yet you aren’t even able to use the features that you paid for!

 

[jerrod_six]

That is a good review. I agree- you should be able to get the previous version of the app back - at least it was working.

 

[derrick352]

So Miele Germany...When will the Prewash issue be fixed on USA W1's ? Your company is so stupid that it cannot be corrected? Is it hardware related, firmware related, both ??? Fix your garbage machines. That's what something is when it does not work properly GARBAGE!

 

[derrick352]

Current Status

From over at Laundry Room...

"Good afternoon Mr *******,

I just reached out to our Engineering department to see if we had a true update. I was told that there was actually supposed to be a release last week but the SW did not pass testing. Please rest assured that the factory is working on this issue and that once an update is complete, tested, and then released you along with other experiencing the same issue will be notified and the machines will be updated.

Thanks,

David"

 

[littlegreeny]

I'm so sorry but they must have done something...

As I've had zero issues with my new WXR860 doing prewashes.

 

[derrick352]

Technical Service Bulletin

Keep in mind if your machine does not exhibit this issue and receives an "update" with new software... It may be the software that has this issue. Therefore your W1 will now have same problem as some already have. Miele has made NO attempt to stop updating machines with this errant software. New units just introduced also have this issue depending on model. Germany decided to load errant firmware on these new models knowing the software was flawed to begin with.

There should be some type of notice given to dealers and passed down to consumer before purchasing a W1 machine. Do not count on this issue ever getting corrected. Time frame for spring 2022 software to correct issues will make it approx 1 year when Miele became aware of this problem, if not more time than that. How could it take this long is beyond me.

 

[henene4]

Dunno what you are trying to say

They are working on the issue. And since certain machines are affected, until the fix arrives, they can't do much.

Sure that is very annoying, but what are they supposed to do? Stop makeing machines?

The related issue in the EU was resolved a few months ago.
The US unfortunately is a very low priority county for Miele.

And I don't see how stoping updates will be of any help.

The models affected will be affected in the future until the fix is rolled out.
Those not won't be.
The issue is and was related to new water intake set-ups and the porting of those to hot fill machines. Those having older or the newer hardware revisions have different firmware and hardware that isn't affected.

A software update will not cause the issue to occur on a machine that didn't have the issue beforehand.

I have yet to see any proof of that anyway.

 

[derrick352]

I do know what I am saying

There is proof of updates creating issue in other forum. You are wrong on a few things in your statement.

 

[henene4]

Ok

That would be a surprise to me - from a technical point of view that is very unlikely.

But regardless, software testing takes time.
It's annoying, but not much one can do.

 

[derrick352]

"The US unfortunately is a very low priority county for Miele"

LOL We buy more machines that most countries. BTW I'm German and expect quality from a company that professes perfection and quality. Fact is this whole issue was exposed and Miele made new models recently knowing the software was bad and loaded it right into them and sent them out anyway. So two of the four new models just rolled out have issue, and all of the previous four. If you have old software your machine may update introducing the error to your previously perfect machine. IT IS WRONG!

 

[derrick352]

*country

for the police

 

[launderess]

Wouldn't say USA market is "low" priority for Miele, but as they barely have one percent of appliance market share here, that's saying something.

https://www.statista.com/forecasts/997139/washing-machine-ownership-by-brand-in-the-us

 

[moon1234]

I have both the WWH860 and the WXI860. No prewash error on either machine.

One change on the WXI860 that I do not like is with quickintense wash. The final spin is terrible. The machine will spend three to five minutes rotating before attempting the final spin. With two minutes remaining it will spin up to 1600 and immediately spin down. It spends almost zero time at max spin. Dry times increase by 10-20% due to the poor final spin. This can't possibly be correct.

The WWH-860 does not act this way. It does proper spins for each rinse. I also do not like the focus on 49 minute cycles. The 59 minute quick cycle on the 860 adds 10 minutes when temp is set to 140F. It is also possible to get a third rinse when activating allergy in the expanded programming menu. This setting is not honored in the WXI version.

While I like the 860 we don't use the quick intense cycle much on this washer due to the poorer rinse/spin. We do most of those in the WWH model now and run the standard cycles in the new model.

Just my viewpoints between the two models.

 

[moon1234]

I have both the WWH860 and the WXI860. No prewash error on either machine.

One change on the WXI860 that I do not like is with quickintense wash. The final spin is terrible. The machine will spend three to five minutes rotating before attempting the final spin. With two minutes remaining it will spin up to 1600 and immediately spin down. It spends almost zero time at max spin. Dry times increase by 10-20% due to the poor final spin. This can't possibly be correct.

The WWH-860 does not act this way. It does proper spins for each rinse. I also do not like the focus on 49 minute cycles. The 59 minute quick cycle on the 860 adds 10 minutes when temp is set to 140F. It is also possible to get a third rinse when activating allergy in the expanded programming menu. This setting is not honored in the WXI version.

While I like the 860 we don't use the quick intense cycle much on this washer due to the poorer rinse/spin. We do most of those in the WWH model now and run the standard cycles in the new model.

Just my viewpoints between the two models.

 

[mielerod69]

QuickIntenseWash

Hi Moon1234,
If you select water plus via the app, will it extend the time on the program? I have an older W1 model and if you select water plus, it extends the time to 1 hour 15 minutes. It does do a longer final spin and also adds an interim spin between the rinses. On the European models you can deselect the Quick option and it extends the time and also allows you to wash 5 kg instead of 4 kg.

 

[moon1234]

Water Plus on the WXI860 does nothing on my washer other than increase the amount of water added during the main wash. I have max water level selected for all rinses so I am not sure if water plus affects the rinse water level.

Allergy option is the only way to extend the main wash. It also adds full spins between rinses and and extra rinse. If extra rinse and allergy are selected the machine does not add the extra rinse. The wash duration is the same time if allergy is selected irrespective if extra wash is selected or not.