Mile 1215 worth it in the end? Hello new W1

[uncledave]

I say goodbye to my old friend the Miele W1215 and make room for a new W1.

I have mixed emotions about this.

I did NOT get 20 years out of the unit, it's leaving not quite at just under 14 years so significantly less.
I DID get approx 11K cycles out of it or approx 11K hours of use.

I had it serviced at 10,250 cycles a while back and its developed a mystery spin problem along with a torn boot and I'm just not going to invest any more service in a platform with so many spin cycles on it.

If it were a car driving at 60 MPH that'd be 660,000 Miles - a lot of miles to be certain.

It laundered a family of 4 w 2 teenage boys, 3 beds, 3 dogs and their bedding, towels for the pool, and a sanitize load per day for 5 years for my wife's pet grooming business - it had a hard hard life.

Good bye old friend.....

Uncle Dave

 

[richnz]

Don't throw it out so quickly

20 years with 365 days with 1 x 1 hour cycle of washing. 11K hours seems pretty good.
With your household needs it seems very good (perhaps excellent?)
But don't throw that baby away just yet.

I have a W1 (WKB130) and it lasted 1 week. I found the cycles are too long and it only seemed to shave 10 minutes when it was in the mood.

I hope you have more joy with your machine and the programming is more suited to your laundering time-frames.

 

[uncledave]

Already gone.

I'm happy to see some capabilities and bummed others seem to be gone. I knew with only 110V and like 20 amps I wouldn't be getting really hot water really fast.

Just spinning full speed will speed up my whole scenario dramatically- I was coming out of the washer with a full load of wet towels nightly that were taking 2.5 hours to dry.

The machine was also adding a rinse mysteriously every "x" wash pushing out the wash times to about 1:20

UD

 

[richimaor]

W1

I’ll be thrilled to hear about the performance of the 110V Miele!

 

[henene4]

Miele machines were always designed for about 10k hours of operation since the 90s, so you did get out of it what it was supposed to do.

Your issues were clearly "just" the shock absorbers.
The spin issue is a balancing issue, the torn boot is from the tub swinging to much and the "randomly" added rinse was executed when ever the interim spins couldn't be executed properly.

The W1 will be a capable machine with better wash and rinse performance then this machine. Hope you got one with the PowerWash 2.0 system.
Proper dosing and using the programming functions will be your friend!

 

[uncledave]

Hello Henene4.

I don't feel I got gypped, some might calculate that Im not really saving much, but I value the performance.
My pw6065 is supposed to be more industrial and last to 15K but well see about that.

It wasn't the shock absorbers, as all were replaced approx 700 cycles ago, as were the carbon brushes.
Perhaps I should have replaced the springs as well??

The torn boot was from a shoe that ripped the lip off the top- it was still sealing, but underneath the torn "lip" was an aggressive surface (stiff ribs) that quickly took out anything that rubbed against it.

The logic had begun randomly adding rinses as well.

It was simply time.

So far the W1 has had 7 or 8 loads through it already and it's been a gem- more aggressive in the washing a more aggressive ladle set in the drum. Ive run mostly twindos and so far I like it.

The detergent tray is a bit different with a "liquid" insert in what was the powder tray, I removed for the persil powder I have 100's of "Waschen" left that I really like.

UD

 

[uncledave]

Henenen - Yes I believe I have the power wash 2.0 -that the secondary recirculator and filter right?
(Miele has an excellent filter)

W1 - Im awaiting delivery of the plinth which is a few weeks out so I reassembled the area and started at it the laundry right away. .

Old unit was really quiet.
The new machine is even quieter.

I found what I needed in terms of matching my old 1215 - " Normal +Hot(60C)+Max Spin=59 min".
W1 Quickintense + Hot+=59 min.

Note the new definitions - old "hot" was 60C. Which is now defined as "HOT+"

That said

The machine is equal or FASTER in my daily 60C wash than the 220V machine ( ?!??! shouldn't be but it is)
while having better balance logic in the spin, a more aggressive wash, and the recirculation pump.

Its a better washer, the higher speed powerwash agitates more than the older machine did in its limited range of fixed speeds.

So far I'm pretty damm impressed.

Note suitcase full of laundry the "adult" offspring units show up with every Saturday.
They are more than happy to avoid the 4.00 per cycle (4 wash +4 dry x 4 loads a week) + soap charge to do it at their apartment and slowly end the life of my machines.....remaining firmly clamped onto the teat of the parental hardware, water, energy, and soap for what must be the worlds longest duration.

I digress-

TWiNDOS currently set at 22 ML phase 1 and 15 Ml phase 2.
End up with just a few suds in the wash and rise.

Perhaps unsurprisingly the oxygen bleach works (which is why we use sodium percarbonate at times) produces very slightly crisper whites than white Persil alone. It's a nice feature that isn't marketing hype.

Its a bit Kafkaesque to have to override twindos every time you want to use regular soap but retaining the powder, handling, (while improving the liquid dosing drawer) had to "default" some standard - and unsurprisingly they made Twindos the default. Thats said it works great and is dead easy to use.

I/we likes the Twindos smell - I was worried about that.

UD

 

[littlegreeny]

Congratulations!

That's a wonderful machine. If you want, you can change it to display the actual temp and spin speed. Just turn the program knob to "More Programs", then scroll to "Settings", then to "Unit" to change it.

 

[uncledave]

Thanks, I'll check that out

I pretty much just check up using the app now through the phone- bit of a pain setting it up but finally got it.

Thrilled with it so far.

In retrospect, I don't think 1215 had much if any balance logic.

This machine had a tricky 2 large rug load and spent 3-4 minutes before getting the balance just right

UD

 

[jerrod6]

I think you can change the words 'Hot" "Warm" in the display to the actual temperature numbers. Check the user manual under settings. I think you can also change the spin speed words to numbers like the previous models too.

 

[uncledave]

Thanks, Jerrod, I'm having a bit of trouble finding that, but it's not really a big deal.

Ok so this thing is pretty awesome -

I've had it filled to the brim twice now with 17.5 pounds of rugs, 17.5 pounds of mixed towels plus 2 full-size cotton chaise lounge covers (i put a basket on the bathroom scale) and each time it found really good balance and spun up to full RPM.

One time it took 4 minutes extra to balance itself - which I vastly prefer to an abort or slow speed spin giving me hours in the dryer.

Even at its own relative max weight, my 1215 got flummoxed by the same mix of large and small items failing to reach full RPM spin quite often in its latter days.

It rightfully used some water - 78 Litres per cycle -but the final rinse was super clear.
I've seen some cycles use VERY little water 13L in some modes, but Ive got all kinds of adjustability to tweak whatever I want vs the 1215's limited programmability.

Ive now cut 4 loads down to 2 and shaved tons of time and energy from my drying cycles.

 

[henene4]

Page 87

Of this manual (Unit setting):

https://www.mieleusa.com/pmedia/ZGA/TX2070/11009340-000-00_11009340-00.pdf

 

[dbv]

Congrats on your purchase. We are also looking at the W1/T1 and there are few reviews on it so far in the US, so glad to have found your input. Curious on how the vibration is at high speed? Did you consider the pedestals or is it acceptable at the level it is at.

Are Miele T9822 gas dryer went bad and no parts are available, so time for a new set. Somewhat, nervous about buying a heat pump dryer and hoping that it will not take too much longer than our gas dryer was to dry the clothes. Thanks!

 

[combo52]

Hi D, The HP dryer will take 2-3 times as long as the gas dryer did, and cost a little more to run as well, your clothing will also wear a little more with all those extra HOURS in a dryer.

 

What part does your Miele gas dryer need?, for such an expensive product it is really amazing that they won't back it up, one could just buy a Samsung or LG if they wanted this kind of crappy support.

 

John L.

 

[uncledave]

DBV- Its sitting on a pedestal now and still super smooth.
Smoother than my 1215 even with loads it could never balance.

Would i buy again at this stage - yes absolutely.
I really like the twindos so far, and at 20 ML per dose Im getting way longer than I though- 75 vs 35 loads for about 20 bones. The oxygen bleach phase 2 works better than a big dump of oxy powder. in places

They took some money out of it - the top is cheaper, the door is cheaper,
The enamel is great, the drum is great and the selector know and panel feel great.

The settings are a bit arcane from what was straightforward but overly simplified 1215
Arcane in that the weight limit varies dramatically from load to load, some setting don't have full temp or spin ranges - but I found what I needed that was close enough to be happy.

The control app is kind of 1.0- not much more than a status indicator of where the machine is in a given load and what the parameters are.I wish it had some ability to cumulatively track KWH and water usage - it can read these in real time, but not store them.

Happy i don't need a new dryer yet - my 220V 1405T works just great.

UD

 

[henene4]

The HP dryer would take about 2h max for 17.5 pound load spun at 1600rpm, be much more gentle and FAR more efficent (not more then 1.5kWh for such a load, approx).

Yeah, some cycles are really weired, but the QuickIntense wash (that is called QuickPowerWash else where) should be fine for most of anything day to day.

Play around with the settings. If you ever use the SingleWash feature I'd be super happy to hear your review and description of how that works.

 

[dbv]

The washer seems great, but the HP dryer seems like it might be a no go if dry times are that much longer than the gas dryer. We rarely wash big loads, like with towels, maybe up to a combination of 7 at a time, which would be bath, hand, etc.... Not sure why Miele would not have just made a normal gas dryer too.

I found this site in the UK that reviewed the dryer, at least it look similar to what is available in the US.

https://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/miele-tmg440wp

 

[henene4]

Those are EU platform machines. There are VERRY few gas dryers in the EU, and Miele will not make the same mistake again and try to make an exclusive design for a new market.

Cycle times are highly dependent, but more then 90min is rare. But a vented dryer will be quicker.

 

[uncledave]

The pedestal arrived yesterday and I had to fiddle with the feet and position so the drawer would clear the lip and door opening - took a while but shes leveled and ready - probably time to peel off the twindos sticker.

Henene - Quick intense wash doesn't let me use cold water it only goes down to warm+.
For my preference thats too warm for dark clothes which I usually wash on cold or 20.

The dark/denim load lets me go to cold but maxes out at 1400 RPM spin

for darks, I typically use the normal/cold/max setting which results in a 1:20 wash cycle.

It would be nice to find a 1-hour mode with the temp and spin flexibility.

Ive used the singles modes a couple times now to good success but didn't sit in front of the machine to see exactly how the standard mode got chopped down.

UD

 

[launderess]

"Miele would not have just made a normal gas dryer too&#

As noted, file it under "been there and done that".

Miele made a gas dryer to match their uber sized 4XXX series washing machines, and it was nearly a universal failure. Too many problems, bugs and whatever, especially for what was supposed to be a high end appliance (with a price tag to match).

Equally as duly noted gas (natural or propane) are rare in Europe especially domestic. You might find them in commercial/industrial laundries, but still... Thus Miele does not have a large natural market for gas dryers, and never again it seems (after the hot mess that was the 4XXX series) will they go down the path of producing region specific washers and dryers. Things sold in North America are merely tweaked versions of what is sold elsewhere.

Miele also stopped selling vented electric dryers in North America some time ago as well. Long before the heat pump versions arrived only thing one could get was a condenser version. At least new; there are plenty of old/used ones on market.

 

[launderess]

The dark/denim load lets me go to cold but maxes out at 1400

Theory behind limiting spin speeds for denims/darks is to prevent those white "crease" marks that can come from too high final extraction speeds.

IIRC many other European domestic washing machines have similar programs now a days.

On whole did does seem as if Miele learned from their mistakes with the 4XXX series uber sized washers and the W1 are streets ahead.

If and or when Big Bertha goes, may seriously consider getting a W1. Though that may be years away so there likely will be something newer on market.

 

[dbv]

I wish there was more user reviews in the US of the heat pump dryer. I have seen one person far that can talk about. Heat pump technology is not proven in the US yet, at least compared to cheap gas or electric, so Miele needs more people to get the dryer to prove it can be successful here, otherwise will be a tough sell. Why use a heat pump of it can’t be near as fast as gas or electric? Maybe it is close, but hard to tell when there are so few facts on the heat pump Miele dryers in the US.

I would like to try another Miele, but really dont want be a guinea pig again and potentially waste a lot of money.

 

[launderess]

If am being honest

Can't see heat pump dryers really taking off in USA/North America.

Like ventless/condenser dyers the things do serve a purpose and fills a certain need, but don't think many will be replacing their gas or even electric vented dryers with one. Well not unless again the numbers work for them and or they see it will provides benefits that outweigh any negatives.

When you consider electric or gas vented dryers can have lifespans measured in two or more decades, spending a large amount of money for a heat pump dryer that has a comparatively short life (IIRC Miele T1 units measure a decade or abit over with average use), again just don't see it becoming the next big thing.

Now for those in urban settings such as here in NYC living in apartments where they cannot or will not run venting; these dryers are a game changer. Better performance than average condenser dryers and non of the drawbacks such as heating up the area.

 

[henene4]

Heat pumps are all about efficency

If you're paying 10-15 cents per kWh electrical energy, the difference between 5kWh (50-75 cents) 2kWh (20-30 cents) isn't mayor enough to sell a doubeling in drying time.

If were talking 20-30 cents per kWh, 1€-1,5€ vs no more then 60 cents makes a major difference, even more so if you are alrwady used to simmilar drying times.

The T1 dryer design has been proofen over here. You can read the UK reviews and take basicly as the same machines.
Only thing: You need a high extraction HE washer to match, the faster the better.
Download a UK manual and read the cotton cycle usage table and you'll understand.

 

[launderess]

We've had this debate before

So am not going down that road again...

United States is a vast country and energy prices vary very much by geographical location.

Here in New York electricity rates are dear: Con Edison is currently 21.0 cents per kilowatt hour, and natural gas is gas, at $1.262 per therm.

Most here use natural gas for cooking, water, home heating and clothes dryers. Things may vary by type of home (older apartment buildings still largely burn oil for heat/hot water for instance).

Con Edison and other utility companies in this state also tack on a vast and bewildering array of taxes and surcharges mandated by local government.

All this being said when most go dryer shopping here first and foremost the decision is based upon what fuel (gas, propane, electricity) is available.

Con Edison has a nifty tool to promote "energy efficient" appliances.

"CLEARCOST shows you what this product may cost you to buy and run. CLEARCOST is worked out by combining the lowest available purchase price for the product that day from retailers shown on Con Edison Marketplace, with the energy costs of using the product over its typical lifetime, with the electricity rate specified, and the typical amount of usage."

Several heat pump dryers dominate the top rankings with a "100" score. However the details tell another story.

Whirlpool WED9290FC - Has a total cost to own and run for 16 years of $4,267

https://marketplace.coned.com/dryers/139417720-Whirlpool-WED9290FC-enervee-score

Miele TWF160WP - Is slightly better at $2,163 for same period only because of lower energy use.

https://marketplace.coned.com/dryers/163976513-Miele-TWF160WP-enervee-score

Kenmore Elite 61553 (vented) comes in at $3,982 with a bulk of that cost coming in energy usage.

https://marketplace.coned.com/dryers/149525839-KenmoreElite-61553-enervee-score

Miele T8033C - Comes in at $2,977

https://marketplace.coned.com/dryers/152766566-Miele-T8033C-enervee-score

Rest can be looked up here: https://marketplace.coned.com/dryers/?sortBy=energy_score

You can see anyway sliced electric dryers are expensive here, but there is another consideration.

Many simply do not want to wait two or more hours for a load of laundry to dry. This is the same complaints many north Americans have about European laundry appliances in general; they take too long.

 

[dbv]

Launderess: you bring up a lot of great points on the North American market. We really need to see comparison times between a gas dryer and the Miele T1 to get an idea of how much longer it will take. If it is significantly longer, I can't see many North Americans purchasing it. Who has time to sit around and wait for your laundry to dry. If it is only 10% to 20% longer, then that is not a huge difference.

 

[logixx]

Here in New York electricity rates are dear: 21 Cents.

How cute.

Google said the average kWh over here is .33 USD for 2018.

 

[launderess]

Google said the average kWh over here is .33 USD for 2018.

Yes but on that side of pond for various reasons many are used to paying more for various fuels; petrol, electricity, etc....

Here things are more complex and usually rates are driven up by local taxes, surcharges and fees tacked onto bills. Here in NYS we actually pay a surcharge to providing funding to MTA (transit), a fund for the poor who cannot pay their electric bills, and so forth.

https://www.chooseenergy.com/electricity-rates-by-state/

Again here in NYC and surrounding area there are reasons why if given a choice people will go with natural gas over electricity for things like heating, hot water, cooking, etc...

Case in point; developers of new buidlings here are cheapening out by installing PTAC units instead of central heating and or air conditioning.

This works out well for building owner/landlord; but for those who must heat their apartments using those PTAC or other electric units get hit with major bills.

https://www.brownstoner.com/forum-archive/2010/09/ptac-heating-an/

https://www.ny-engineers.com/blog/can-electric-heating-have-a-lower-cost-than-gas-heating

 

[lavamat_jon]

I have extensive experience with Miele heat pump dryers, and I find drying times average from an hour to an hour and a half for a normal mixed load, and between an hour and 15 and hour 45 for a thicker load of towels. A half load will be done in around 40 minutes.

I have compared running times of my heat pump dryer and also a vented dryer using the same load, and the cycle time difference was minuscule.

Spinning at the maximum speed is essential, as with any tumble dryer. Most fabrics can handle a 1600 spin nowadays, and if they can’t 1000 or 1200 is gentle enough. Those that complain of longer drying times will often always have spun at a low speed.

The energy savings alone are worth it - the same load in a heat pump dryer will use a third of the electricity as a standard vented or condenser dryer, and will also suffer considerably less shrinkage. Of course, they still aren’t as energy efficient as a clothes horse or a washing line.

We must remember that heat pump dryers (and electric dryers) can also make use of renewable energy for example solar panels, whereas natural gas is a finite and precious resource.

Jon

 

[logixx]

Speaking of Miele and gas dryers. I see Miele don't even sell Professional gas dryers in the US, while there are a bunch of them on the German site - including an OctoPlus model. I wonder what's up with that?