More CARS being discontinued

[gusherb]

You’re right, crossovers are quite a bit more profitable for automakers.

The compact and midsize crossovers to me are kind of a joke in that they tend to be based on their sedan counterparts, but one size down from whatever class the crossover is. So for example a Nissan Rogue is midsize but based on the compact Sentra platform, the Murano is somewhere between mid and full size but based off the Altima/Maxima platform. The Honda CR-V is based off the Civic platform and the Ford Escape is based off the Focus IIRC.
So when you buy a midsize crossover you’re basically getting a lifted up and stretched out compact sedan with a hefty markup, and you still get many of the negative traits of the compact platform like a less then stellar ride quality, add in the poor handling due to a higher center of gravity, worse gas mileage due to a higher profile and often times less cargo & rear seat space than a midsize sedan (however you do get more space vertically). It’s no wonder crossovers are so profitable.

I have driven quite a few crossovers and even had one many years ago and when I switched to a sedan it was like upgrading from an econobox to a Cadillac and I simply just went from a Nissan Rogue to the Altima (I drove a 2018 Rogue recently and they’re still crap IMO). However, some crossovers have gotten pretty good, like the 2017-present Honda CR-V.

After watching the crossover trend grow and grow, I finally recently concluded with confidence that I much prefer a mid or full size sedan or full size truck myself. If I were gonna do an SUV I’d do it right and go full size and make sure it has AWD (like say, the Toyota Highlander).

 

[philcobendixduo]

Choices Dwindling

Besides GM and Ford paring down car production, ALL carmakers have pretty much made BLACK the one and only interior "color" choice which is a no sale for me.
Either this is another "production efficiency" for auto makers (i.e. cost cutting) or American car buyers just go with whatever everyone else goes with like lemmings to the sea.
Most popular exterior colors continue to be shades of gray and silver, black and white. Not for me, thank you!
If I'm going to pay over 40k for a new car, I'm not going to "settle" for a funeral parlor interior because it's the only thing available.
I used to be an avid "car guy" but today's cars do absolutely NOTHING for me.

 

[firedome]

interiors:

actually gray not black seems to be most common, along with Greige. Oh for the days of red, blue or green!

We'll never go back to a car for a DD, in upstate NY and VT 4wd/awd is a must and we like the ride height of a mid-size SUV (not a crossover); with all the absurdly tall pickups (have you seen the new '19 Heavy Duty pickup that Chevy just introduced?!) & Escalades out there regular cars are just too low for safety, imo. And we have a vintage Chevy and Mustang convert to get the car fix when we need one.

 

[vacerator]

Motor city area guy here, so;

I have decades of experience and knowledge of the industry.
Most customers lease today, so the 7 year good sales cycle/3 year poor sales may be changing.
Smaller sedans never had a great profit margin.
Most prefer an s.uv., or a truck today as well.
A mid size s.u.v. especially gets as good as fuel economy as a similar sized sedan.
The Chevrolet Equinox is also being replaced by the new Blazer. Same size. 112.5 inch wheelbase, 2.5 litre 4, or 3.6 litre V6. Some styling ques from the Camaro.
I saw one this morning. Nice.
Spring Hill plant did not get it. Same CXX1 platform as the Cadillac XT5, but built in Ramos Arizpe Mexico, despite much opposition from the U.A.W.
GM is also phasing out the older Lambda s.u.v. platform. The Enclave was the final product on it.
The new Traverse, and Acadia also share a longer wheelbase and wider version of the CXX1 platform.
If the market demands sedans again later, and Korea, and Japan don't have enough market capacity, Ford, GM, and FCA can import form Asia as well.
The world has changed, the old days are not to return.
Yes I feel sad for plant employees in Lordstown Ohio, Oshawa, Ontario, Detroit Poletown plant, etc.
As much as I loved the car industry in young adult hood, I am glad I never ventured to work in it. I also know what it is like to be displaced from a life long career, and not ever make as much again.
A lot of younger people are venturing into the Canabis cultivating, and marketing trade.
You need to do what pays the bills I suppose. That, or become higher educated, if you are still young enough.
I always felt productive in my job, so if it pays well enough, and offers that, plus some control, and input, at least one can feel productive.
You've got to roll with the changes and punches.

 

[vacerator]

Volkswagen

also reported it is phasing out all gasoline engines by the year 2026. So expect more diesel, and electric vehicles to be introduced.

 

[robbinsandmyers]

Typical stupidity from Detroit

The Brits have a saying called " Missed the plot " and it always applies to our auto makers. Thats why when gas is over $4.00 a gallon again, and it WILL happen. Your local GM/Ford/Chrysler dealers will be giving away gas sucking vehicles with factory employee discounts on cars no one wants while the Toyota dealers will have a 6 month wait on a 50 MPG Prius like last time. Meanwhile the VW dealers will be screwed because they have no diesels to sell. I drive German or Japanese diesels PERIOD. If I cant buy new ones anymore I'll just keep buying old ones. Like my 18 year old 50 MPG diesel Golf with a quarter million miles on it.

 

[wayupnorth]

Electric and diesel are not very popular up here where it is so cold. Electric cars dont hold a full charge in the winter and diesels are notoriously hard to start in cold weather.

 

[iheartmaytag]

As I have said before.

I think Ford and Chevy are shooting themselves in the foot.
Much like Chrysler did in the early 2000s. Gas was cheap so they put a Hemi-V8 into everything. Then Gas prices jumped, they had abandoned the lower revenue small car and they couldn't give their monsters away.

Ford and Chevy take warning. Gas will not stay artificially low, and when it spikes it will be 2008 all over again.

 

[petek]

I hate black interiors as well but that was the only choice they gave with the pearl mist (white) exterior. Hubby's car is charcoal gray (basically almost black) which I do not like at all, too hard to keep clean, but it has a nice light gray interior. Even with their top model you're stuck with only one or two interior choices.

Nissan according to an article in the Toronto Star last week are sticking with sedans over cuv/suvs and will probably be the only maker doing so. They're actually betting on having enough customers who don't want an suv/cuv

We pay a lot more for gas in Canada that the US, except maybe Calif. which seems similarly priced.. yet the biggest selling vehicle in Canada is the Ford F150 pickup..

 

[joeekaitis]

 

I can't be the only person in the world who looks at a Buick crossover and sees a steamed Bratwurst on wheels.

 

[luxflairguy]

I'm still driving my 2003 Park Avenue Ultra!  It has 145K on it and today got a new battery!  I feed it with the recommended Premium gas and today at Sam's Club it was $2.49/gal.  Down 50 cents since I last filled up 3 weeks ago.    Trunk hold a dead body or all the equipment I need to clean a 4-5,000 sq. foot house each day.  

As I planned to leave Sumas for Wilmington 18 months ago, I spent just over a grand on repairs and since arriving here July of last year I have not spent $200.00!  O.K., I don't go far!  My trip to Hans's last month was the first time I"ve driven outside the tri-county area!  

 

Too many newspapers have stated the obvious!  Truck based vehicles are the current wave!  Here in NC, there are more trucks on the road than cars!  Not for me!

Greg

 

[fan-of-fans]

"You’re right, crossovers are quite a bit more profitable for automakers.

The compact and midsize crossovers to me are kind of a joke in that they tend to be based on their sedan counterparts, but one size down from whatever class the crossover is. So for example a Nissan Rogue is midsize but based on the compact Sentra platform, the Murano is somewhere between mid and full size but based off the Altima/Maxima platform. The Honda CR-V is based off the Civic platform and the Ford Escape is based off the Focus IIRC.
So when you buy a midsize crossover you’re basically getting a lifted up and stretched out compact sedan with a hefty markup, and you still get many of the negative traits of the compact platform like a less then stellar ride quality, add in the poor handling due to a higher center of gravity, worse gas mileage due to a higher profile and often times less cargo & rear seat space than a midsize sedan (however you do get more space vertically). It’s no wonder crossovers are so profitable.

I have driven quite a few crossovers and even had one many years ago and when I switched to a sedan it was like upgrading from an econobox to a Cadillac and I simply just went from a Nissan Rogue to the Altima (I drove a 2018 Rogue recently and they’re still crap IMO). However, some crossovers have gotten pretty good, like the 2017-present Honda CR-V.

After watching the crossover trend grow and grow, I finally recently concluded with confidence that I much prefer a mid or full size sedan or full size truck myself. If I were gonna do an SUV I’d do it right and go full size and make sure it has AWD (like say, the Toyota Highlander)."

I feel the same way. Now I may be jumping to conclusions but I just never cared for the Rogue or Edge, etc when they came out. Like you say they seem to have less rear seat space and less cargo space than some cars. And to me the features available on some of the smaller crossovers aren't as nice as a comparable car, so they're really a step backward than a sedan in a similar price range.

All that said, I guess the vertical height increase is good from a safety standpoint because as another poster said, there are so many trucks and SUVs on the road these days.

 

[fan-of-fans]

I don't like a black interior either, especially all black. I guess for some retro cars like the Dodge Charger/Challenger or maybe a Ford Mustang it makes sense. But to me on a cloudy day it's just too dark and depressing, and I live in Florida, so other areas it's surely worse.

And I too have noticed how so many cars are white, black, red or gray or silver. I like something different like a blue, green, etc.

I'm not planning on spending anywhere near $40k for a car, but if I'm going to be driving a car for 5 to 10 years or more, it might as well be in colors I'd like. As for me, looking for a used car it's even harder to find a good one that's also in the colors I'd prefer. The black interiors are very common with newer cars. They seem to have overtaken the gray that was common about 10 years ago. I prefer beige myself, but that seems to be a less common one now too. And some that are beige are more of a weird mustard yellow instead.

 

[gusherb]

We’ve always had lots of trucks and SUV’s on the road especially where I live, and in general across the Chicago area, so when I heard that sedan sales had plummeted in favor of them it was news to me. The safety concern about being hit by a taller vehicle while in a shorter vehicle is very valid, although I don’t let it bias my decisions heavily. I do have a cousin who got rear ended by a truck while in her Pontiac Grand Prix while she was making a left on a major highway, it hit her going around 60 MPH. She doesn’t know how she walked away from it (the pictures looked horrible). She ended up replacing it with a Ram truck after that, and I don’t blame her one bit.

As for Nissan betting on gaining enough sedan customers to keep them afloat, I’m not surprised one bit. The only vehicles they really focus on and do really good at are the Altima and Maxima, everything else is either “meh” or a complete afterthought. I still wouldn’t get another Altima though, not after all the endless small issues I’ve had with mine. I only keep it around because it’s low miles and has the most comfortable seats I’ve ever sat in in a car. If I for some reason did end up with another I for surely wouldn’t do a first model year of a new generation again, maybe not even second model year. The CVT transmission is something I never liked about them either, I’d much rather a Mazda 6 with a 6spd AT or the 2019 Jetta with its fabulously tuned 8spd AT.

 

[super32]

Being in the northeast an AWD/4WD is a must. At least 1 vehicle in the household. I have had several makes and models thru the years. I will never own another Toyota again. It was extremely uncomfortable and the 4 i had were not reliable either. Not that they are stellar, but Ford has been good to me. Lets be honest, you cant beat an F150. We currently have a Lincoln Town Car, Chrysler T&C and Ford Flex. We are absolutely in love with the Flex. The Flex doesnt get the best mileage but its big enough, comfortable, quick on its feet, and moves around in the snow unless its really "deep snow". With all of this said, another F150 is in our future along with the Flex. I am a big boy towering in at 6'4" and 200lbs. Those small thingy's are so uncomfortable

Pix attached for fun.

 

[fan-of-fans]

Nice. I don't see many Flex around here. I kind of like them. I also like the Town and Country. I really considered getting one of them, because I feel they're a way better value for the money than a crossover, and have more features. But, for someone who never has anyone else in the car, just seems a bit of a waste for one person.

I sat in an Altima when I was looking for the car I have now, like a 2003 or so. I really liked that car, but the newer ones don't do anything for me.

Toyotas have always been a bit meh for me. There's nothing wrong with them at all and I'm sure they're great cars, but they're just so expensive for what you get in my opinion. I do like the last two gens of the Camry better than I used to. But, a new base Camry with NO options is right around $26,000. A used one with 50,000 miles already is around $19,000. I can get a way nicer and/or bigger car than that from a different brand just because it's not a Toyota. Some people, I know like Toyota and will gladly pay more for less car, because of the perceived superiority of it, but to each their own. I just don't see the value in it, but many do.

 

[warmsecondrinse]

I'm only 6'1" but my arthritis-ridden body does not like to bend so I see the attraction of the idea of crossovers. I'm on my second Nissan Cube and have no intentions to replace it. I love the ride height and how the back hatch opens like a door so no chance of head injury. The back seats not only recline, but can slide back toward the cargo area so 4 six-foot-plus guys can all have legroom at the same time. I can fold down the back seats and carry a full sized washer. I get 26mpg around town and 30 on highway trips at 80mph with a/c blasting. And at 159" long, my Cube can park almost anywhere. I do wish it had AWD, but I have chains if I need them... haven't yet.

When my first Cube was rear-ended and totalled last year I looked at all the crossovers and they were all too big, too expensive, and got shitty gas mileage.

As has been pointed out, gas prices won't remain artificially low forever.

Jim

If I were, it would be a 2015 Cube (the last year imported) or a Ford C-Max.

 

[lordkenmore]

>Toyotas have always been a bit meh for me. There's nothing wrong with them at all and I'm sure they're great cars, but they're just so expensive for what you get in my opinion.

I have a hard time getting excited about Toyota, myself. BUT I know a lot of people have them, love them, and would never consider any other brand.

The big selling point seems to be reliability and long service life--at least historically. I know of people who have a 20+ year old Toyota that just seems to keep going on and on.

Of course, a new Toyota might not be that good. I've heard some say a 2018 Camry won't last as long as a 1998 Camry (partly because of how complicated the cars are). But the buyer perception is still "Toyota makes reliable cars that last forever!" And so Toyota can charge more than Kia, and get away with it.

As I said above, I have a hard time getting excited by Toyota. I can even go further and say a Toyota Corolla (late 80s? maybe early 90s?) I once test drove was a car I positively HATED. I could not get it back to the dealer fast enough. But Toyota is on my list of cars to consider if I can ever afford to buy a car. Not exciting, but it seems like one of the better gambles. Given how poor I am, I'd be realistically stuck with a car that was made when Bill Clinton was in office, and has a quarter million miles-plus on the odometer.

 

[xraytech]

Before choosing an Enclave, I was considering a Ford Flex. They are rather common here.
I would have got one in the same red as the one Scott has, unfortunately since I wasn’t looking to order a new one, I could not find a Flex, even in Limited trim that had the 2nd row bucket seats. At least on the Enclave the bucket seats are standard

 

[askolover]

I've always liked small cars myself.  I learned to drive in a Mercury Lynx aka Ford Escort.  Town Car's and the Escalade are the largest vehicles I've ever owned and driven but it's easier to get around Nashville in a cracker box car.