Nationwide gas stove ban?

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Just read the same thing in the evening edition of my local paper, and I’m not sure what to think about it.

I used to live in a high rise apartment building in my city (built in the mid-1960s) where all of the apartments used gas cooktops and wall ovens. The apartments didn’t have any wiring for 220V appliances, only 110V receptacles (the building worked off a 3 phase electrical system). The laundry room dryers were all gas. Heating (gas) and air conditioning came from a central plant that pumped water to radiator-like air handlers in each apartment. It was a cool little apartment, and I never had any issues using the gas to cook with.

It seems like it would be quite the undertaking to convert an entire building like this from gas to electric cooking appliances, especially if it wasn’t designed for the extra electrical loading.
 
Stove-icide?!

I have a house full of gas appliances, and after replacing our aging furnace and hot water heater due to the carbon monoxide they emitted and because the water heater had a leak, we'd never had any other threats of pollutants or emission problems from those nor our dryer nor either range, the one which came with the house or its replacement installed by experts more than a couple years ago, otherwise I'm sure we'd be dead by now...

So come and take my range, which has a hood via microwave's underside with a fan too noisy to turn on, and no ventilation to any outside, you'll have to get my cold, dead back out from in front of it...

-- Dave[this post was last edited: 1/9/2023-22:25]
 
Well, while the cooktop in the kitchen here is gas, the oven is an old GE P*7 electric that works pretty well. I do have an old Modern Maid gas range that I'm thinking of replacing the electric range in the patio kitchen with. The patio kitchen range area has a questionable hood ("Rangeair") above it which I've never been all that impressed with. I'm not worried about CO or other pollutants there because that patio kitchen is well ventilated 7x24. In the main kitchen the gas cooktop has an efficient Nutone hood above it. I will turn it on when I'm doing a lot of cooking. But lately not just for warming things up.
 
Da hood

Just read about this. I believe an AHAM rep stated that all cooking off-gasses and the solution is just better or forced-air ventilation particularly for gas ranges.
I find it hard to believe that gas ranges or related would ultimately be banned. Jenn-Air patents for downdraft ventilation may prove useful at this point.
However, I do recall some friends having old gas ranges where I could smell the pilot walking in the door.
(Insert your joke here.)
 
Gas cooking is not going to go away in this country.

In our lifetimes, yes, I do think you’re going to see new ventilation requirements. Hopefully you’ll see more ranges where the ovens electric and the burners are gas, etc..

There’s a lot of things that can be done to improve the efficiency of gas ranges. There should be a vent that closes on gas ovens when the gas flame goes off for example, so they don’t waste so much heat

It’s going to result in a gas range becoming a lot more expensive than an electric range. It already is if you compare feature for feature

But there are just too many people who would rather have gas for variety of reasons it’s not going to go away.

A lot of new homes, however will be built without gas and they won’t be the choice in those homes.

John.
 
This sounds like a good start, to be honest. The first step toward addressing a hazard is to recognize that it exists.

The CPSC said "Any option is on the table", and is asking for public input later this year. So unlike the sensationalized media headlines, they aren't jumping to conclusions - just acknowledging that there are issues with the current state of affairs.

The appliance industry has a vested interest in this. Better (and/or smarter) ventilation systems, meaningful ventilation code requirements, and improved consumer education is a net win for everyone.
 
If find it hard to believe they would be banned

0 emissions by 2050 means 0 emissions by 2050.

Gas appliances (excluding heating) are a very minute amount of CO2 emissions.
But they are sources of combustion and the related byproducts.

So they WILL be banned, everywhere, sometime in the next 30 years.

And given that gas heating will be gone sooner rather than later aswell, gas supplies will be a thing of the past aswell.

Sure hydrogen could be a replacement.
But you would need new appliances and supply lines for that anyway.
 
Range hoods should vent outside

It seemed like every house had a vent hood that actually vented OUTSIDE when I was young (70's/80's) whether the stove was electric or gas. The later 80's is when I remember seeing my first non-vented range hood and I thought it was dumber than a screen door on a submarine. Just another way for builders to build bigger, cheaper garbage. Frankly, I think a VENTED hood should be code. When my kitchen was remodeled (by the previous owner) about 20 years ago they moved the stove to a peninsula and there is NO hood over it. Thankfully it's electric and I manage OK with it but I really don't fry or do any high-heat cooking because of it. I waffle between just dealing with it and having a hood system installed that would significantly stand out hanging down from the middle of the room ceiling like a giant upside down mushroom. It is getting to where it's due for new appliances and a refresh so I'll address it soon.
 
I don’t think that hydrogen is a viable alternative for NG. Hydrogen is highly explosive, much more so than NG and transmitting it through pipelines to homes seems like it would be extremely dangerous.

For the last 6 months of ‘79 I worked as a Micro-electronic assembler at Hewlett-Packard in Santa Rosa, Calif. They used hydrogen in the manufacturing at that facility. There was a huge hydrogen tank at the rear of the plant. We had regular hydrogen alarm drills in case there was a leak detected. I recall one of the managers saying that this alarm was an exercise in futility because by the time a hydrogen leak was detected it would be too late to prevent an explosion that would be seen and heard in Sebastopol, which is about 15 miles away from where the HP plant was located.

The explosive quality of hydrogen is also one of the main reasons that dirigibles fell out of favor for air travel because Germany used hydrogen in their airships because they didn’t have a source of helium as an alternative to hydrogen. The Hindenburg disaster at Lakehurst, NJ in May of 1937 demonstrated the danger of using hydrogen as the lighter than air gas to fill dirigibles.

Eddie[this post was last edited: 1/10/2023-12:33]
 
When I attended Fort Ross Elementary School they had a kerosene heater in the classroom. Boy, did it ever stink in the Winter time in that classroom.

This school was built in 1885 and was the proverbial Little Red three room school house. Its now a historical monument on the Northern Calif. coast. I believe that when they moved it they removed the the two add on rooms on either side of the original one room schoolhouse

Eddie
 
#2

It isn't the "electricity lobbyists" who want these dangerous appliances removed.   It's people concerned for their safety.

 

Gas NEVER should have been allowed in residential dwellings.  It serves a very limited number of uses and not all homes even have such toxic appliances.  As the need to replace infrastructure arises, how would one justify digging up all the streets just because<span style="text-decoration: underline;"> some</span> homes in a neighborhood have a furnace and perhaps a water heater that uses gas. 

 

 

Where as EVERYONE uses electric.   Most gas appliances won't even work without electric to power the controls. 

And when the cost to operate becomes more expensive than electric, people will quickly ditch the stinky dangerous gas appliances.

 

#10

"Range hoods should vent outside


It seemed like every house had a vent hood that actually vented OUTSIDE when I was young (70's/80's) whether the stove was electric or gas. "

 

Completely agree.  Add to that bath fans as well.  Can't imagine not having adequate ventilation in either room.  It doesn't cost much to install even the most basic bath or rangehood that's vented. 

 

In the bathroom there should be 2 vents: one 1 foot off the floor next to the toilet to quickly and directly vent out odors, and one very near to the tub/shower to vent out excess humidity.  Each with individual twist timer switches so they will shut off after a set amount of time to save energy.

 

#11 

Hydrogen is made with petroleum and it's a fallacy that it's some special product.  It's just the oil companies trying to sell another bad product.  Just like Nuclear industry is trying to stay relevant by pushing a narrative that nuclear is "safe" and "carbon neutral".   b.s.

 
 
It's about time

IIRC this topic came up a few months ago here in the Super forum, and the responses today echo comments made then.

 

From my perspective, when families come to realize that they are potentially harming their young children by simply cooking on a gas cooktop each night, the societal shifts will start to swing in favor of converting to electric cooktops over gas. While we all are comfortable with our personal experiences and opinions, it will take concrete data to break through most barriers that will be thrown up, and sadly this is already becoming a partisan issue.  And the lack of current data across a wide sample just isn't there, outside the 30+ years this has been studied.  However, it won't stop some of us from throwing a monitor in our homes to see what our personal NO2 daily intake is.

 

What I don't foresee changing in the next several decades is the reliance on natural gas for winter heating above the Mason-Dixon line in the US.  Unless the cost of natural gas becomes egregious compared to eclectic heat, it won't happen.

 



Ben

swestoyz-2023011014415607542_1.jpg
 
"What I don't foresee changing in the next several decades is the reliance on natural gas for winter heating above the Mason-Dixon line in the US. Unless the cost of natural gas becomes egregious compared to eclectic heat, it won't happen."

Oh I don't know...

NYS is moving to mandate heat pumps for new residentail and commercial buildings in less than a decade. NYC has already banned gas connections for new buildings, or that will also take affect soon.

www.syracuse.com

New York state’s move to all-electric homes: How expensive is it? Will it work?

Central New Yorkers talk about their experience with air-source heat pumps.
www.syracuse.com www.syracuse.com
 

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