Nationwide gas stove ban?

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Just read the same thing in the evening edition of my local paper, and I’m not sure what to think about it.

I used to live in a high rise apartment building in my city (built in the mid-1960s) where all of the apartments used gas cooktops and wall ovens. The apartments didn’t have any wiring for 220V appliances, only 110V receptacles (the building worked off a 3 phase electrical system). The laundry room dryers were all gas. Heating (gas) and air conditioning came from a central plant that pumped water to radiator-like air handlers in each apartment. It was a cool little apartment, and I never had any issues using the gas to cook with.

It seems like it would be quite the undertaking to convert an entire building like this from gas to electric cooking appliances, especially if it wasn’t designed for the extra electrical loading.
 
With proper ventilation (AKA, a stove hood vented to the outdoors), gas stoves aren't the villainous appliances the electricity lobbyists are making them out to be.  Ideally, the exhaust fan in the hood should activate automatically whenever a burner is ignited.
 
Stove-icide?!

I have a house full of gas appliances, and after replacing our aging furnace and hot water heater due to the carbon monoxide they emitted and because the water heater had a leak, we'd never had any other threats of pollutants or emission problems from those nor our dryer nor either range, the one which came with the house or its replacement installed by experts more than a couple years ago, otherwise I'm sure we'd be dead by now...

So come and take my range, which has a hood via microwave's underside with a fan too noisy to turn on, and no ventilation to any outside, you'll have to get my cold, dead back out from in front of it...

-- Dave[this post was last edited: 1/9/2023-22:25]
 
Well, while the cooktop in the kitchen here is gas, the oven is an old GE P*7 electric that works pretty well. I do have an old Modern Maid gas range that I'm thinking of replacing the electric range in the patio kitchen with. The patio kitchen range area has a questionable hood ("Rangeair") above it which I've never been all that impressed with. I'm not worried about CO or other pollutants there because that patio kitchen is well ventilated 7x24. In the main kitchen the gas cooktop has an efficient Nutone hood above it. I will turn it on when I'm doing a lot of cooking. But lately not just for warming things up.
 
Da hood

Just read about this. I believe an AHAM rep stated that all cooking off-gasses and the solution is just better or forced-air ventilation particularly for gas ranges.
I find it hard to believe that gas ranges or related would ultimately be banned. Jenn-Air patents for downdraft ventilation may prove useful at this point.
However, I do recall some friends having old gas ranges where I could smell the pilot walking in the door.
(Insert your joke here.)
 
Gas cooking is not going to go away in this country.

In our lifetimes, yes, I do think you’re going to see new ventilation requirements. Hopefully you’ll see more ranges where the ovens electric and the burners are gas, etc..

There’s a lot of things that can be done to improve the efficiency of gas ranges. There should be a vent that closes on gas ovens when the gas flame goes off for example, so they don’t waste so much heat

It’s going to result in a gas range becoming a lot more expensive than an electric range. It already is if you compare feature for feature

But there are just too many people who would rather have gas for variety of reasons it’s not going to go away.

A lot of new homes, however will be built without gas and they won’t be the choice in those homes.

John.
 
This sounds like a good start, to be honest. The first step toward addressing a hazard is to recognize that it exists.

The CPSC said "Any option is on the table", and is asking for public input later this year. So unlike the sensationalized media headlines, they aren't jumping to conclusions - just acknowledging that there are issues with the current state of affairs.

The appliance industry has a vested interest in this. Better (and/or smarter) ventilation systems, meaningful ventilation code requirements, and improved consumer education is a net win for everyone.
 
If find it hard to believe they would be banned

0 emissions by 2050 means 0 emissions by 2050.

Gas appliances (excluding heating) are a very minute amount of CO2 emissions.
But they are sources of combustion and the related byproducts.

So they WILL be banned, everywhere, sometime in the next 30 years.

And given that gas heating will be gone sooner rather than later aswell, gas supplies will be a thing of the past aswell.

Sure hydrogen could be a replacement.
But you would need new appliances and supply lines for that anyway.
 
Range hoods should vent outside

It seemed like every house had a vent hood that actually vented OUTSIDE when I was young (70's/80's) whether the stove was electric or gas. The later 80's is when I remember seeing my first non-vented range hood and I thought it was dumber than a screen door on a submarine. Just another way for builders to build bigger, cheaper garbage. Frankly, I think a VENTED hood should be code. When my kitchen was remodeled (by the previous owner) about 20 years ago they moved the stove to a peninsula and there is NO hood over it. Thankfully it's electric and I manage OK with it but I really don't fry or do any high-heat cooking because of it. I waffle between just dealing with it and having a hood system installed that would significantly stand out hanging down from the middle of the room ceiling like a giant upside down mushroom. It is getting to where it's due for new appliances and a refresh so I'll address it soon.
 
I don’t think that hydrogen is a viable alternative for NG. Hydrogen is highly explosive, much more so than NG and transmitting it through pipelines to homes seems like it would be extremely dangerous.

For the last 6 months of ‘79 I worked as a Micro-electronic assembler at Hewlett-Packard in Santa Rosa, Calif. They used hydrogen in the manufacturing at that facility. There was a huge hydrogen tank at the rear of the plant. We had regular hydrogen alarm drills in case there was a leak detected. I recall one of the managers saying that this alarm was an exercise in futility because by the time a hydrogen leak was detected it would be too late to prevent an explosion that would be seen and heard in Sebastopol, which is about 15 miles away from where the HP plant was located.

The explosive quality of hydrogen is also one of the main reasons that dirigibles fell out of favor for air travel because Germany used hydrogen in their airships because they didn’t have a source of helium as an alternative to hydrogen. The Hindenburg disaster at Lakehurst, NJ in May of 1937 demonstrated the danger of using hydrogen as the lighter than air gas to fill dirigibles.

Eddie[this post was last edited: 1/10/2023-12:33]
 
When I attended Fort Ross Elementary School they had a kerosene heater in the classroom. Boy, did it ever stink in the Winter time in that classroom.

This school was built in 1885 and was the proverbial Little Red three room school house. Its now a historical monument on the Northern Calif. coast. I believe that when they moved it they removed the the two add on rooms on either side of the original one room schoolhouse

Eddie
 
#2

It isn't the "electricity lobbyists" who want these dangerous appliances removed.   It's people concerned for their safety.

 

Gas NEVER should have been allowed in residential dwellings.  It serves a very limited number of uses and not all homes even have such toxic appliances.  As the need to replace infrastructure arises, how would one justify digging up all the streets just because<span style="text-decoration: underline;"> some</span> homes in a neighborhood have a furnace and perhaps a water heater that uses gas. 

 

 

Where as EVERYONE uses electric.   Most gas appliances won't even work without electric to power the controls. 

And when the cost to operate becomes more expensive than electric, people will quickly ditch the stinky dangerous gas appliances.

 

#10

"Range hoods should vent outside


It seemed like every house had a vent hood that actually vented OUTSIDE when I was young (70's/80's) whether the stove was electric or gas. "

 

Completely agree.  Add to that bath fans as well.  Can't imagine not having adequate ventilation in either room.  It doesn't cost much to install even the most basic bath or rangehood that's vented. 

 

In the bathroom there should be 2 vents: one 1 foot off the floor next to the toilet to quickly and directly vent out odors, and one very near to the tub/shower to vent out excess humidity.  Each with individual twist timer switches so they will shut off after a set amount of time to save energy.

 

#11 

Hydrogen is made with petroleum and it's a fallacy that it's some special product.  It's just the oil companies trying to sell another bad product.  Just like Nuclear industry is trying to stay relevant by pushing a narrative that nuclear is "safe" and "carbon neutral".   b.s.

 
 
It's about time

IIRC this topic came up a few months ago here in the Super forum, and the responses today echo comments made then.

 

From my perspective, when families come to realize that they are potentially harming their young children by simply cooking on a gas cooktop each night, the societal shifts will start to swing in favor of converting to electric cooktops over gas. While we all are comfortable with our personal experiences and opinions, it will take concrete data to break through most barriers that will be thrown up, and sadly this is already becoming a partisan issue.  And the lack of current data across a wide sample just isn't there, outside the 30+ years this has been studied.  However, it won't stop some of us from throwing a monitor in our homes to see what our personal NO2 daily intake is.

 

What I don't foresee changing in the next several decades is the reliance on natural gas for winter heating above the Mason-Dixon line in the US.  Unless the cost of natural gas becomes egregious compared to eclectic heat, it won't happen.

 



Ben

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"What I don't foresee changing in the next several decades is the reliance on natural gas for winter heating above the Mason-Dixon line in the US. Unless the cost of natural gas becomes egregious compared to eclectic heat, it won't happen."

Oh I don't know...

NYS is moving to mandate heat pumps for new residentail and commercial buildings in less than a decade. NYC has already banned gas connections for new buildings, or that will also take affect soon.

https://www.syracuse.com/news/2022/...c-homes-how-expensive-is-it-will-it-work.html
 
“Gas NEVER should have been allowed in residential dwellings”

Again, send someone a check who has an all electric home and you’ll dread it since it’ll be $500 or close to $1000.

It’s really ironic since your username is from a company that builds gas fired water heaters, too.
 
"Anybody still using fuel oil to heat their homes? "

Oil, propane, and even coal are all used to heat homes where natural gas isn't possible or even desired.

Large parts of certain areas of NYS such as Long Island have homes and other buildings heated by oil. Largely because natural gas service isn't available.

If there isn't an already existing gas main down one's street or whatever it can cost plenty to get local utility to not just bring service to area, but then from main at street to one's property/building.

Laws and regulations regarding buried oil tanks (along with issues when it comes time to sell) have prompted many to switch over to natural gas if available.

Many large buildings have dual fuel boilers that can run either on gas or oil. This allows owner to hedge costs by burning whatever is cheaper or switch for other reasons.

 
Approx 35% of people cook with gas.

Just like with Covid, if the stupid people(republicans) don't want to listen and continue to act like fools, I say <span style="text-decoration: underline;">let them</span> as long as they aren't hurting others.
I'm not a liberal Progressive afraid of blood shed or loss of life when it comes to disposable republicans.

A bit over a million U.S. "Americans" have died of Covid and studies have shown the majority of those were people of the republican persuasion that resisted wearing masks and taking precautions that were prescribed by those who know best.  These, no doubt, were people who bad mouthed Dr. Fauci, gathered at frump rallies in 2020, and made spectacles of themselves in public places resisting self protections. 

 

About 20 states put forth legislation that banned the BANNING of gas stove.  These were all mainly under the typical corrupt republican leadership.  Yes, those legislators dislike their citizens that not only do they have worse health care coverage insurance and other public safety nets for people than those in Progressive states, they also don't care if people are suffering with gas pollution in their homes.  

 

Another side bit of info: about 33% of U.S. "Americans" have guns.  A percentage that shrinks every year.  So, they have a lot of them.  There's over 120 guns in the U.S. per 100 people, far FAR more than any other country.  They obviously don't need them for their stated purpose.  Gun accidents and deaths of people with guns are much more likely, statistics show.

 

Just for fun:

I'm wondering if the 33% of gun owners are also gas stove consumers who resent Dr. Fauci and those who try to protect the public.  lol

 

I'm also starting to think that republican legislators, by default, are actually working for people like me.

 

 



https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/17/politics/natural-gas-ban-preemptive-laws-gop-climate/index.html
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This is my concern with outlawing gas stoves. What would happen whenever there's a power outage? That's why my grandmother wanted a gas stove in the first place because the small little town they were living at in Utah, the power goes out a ton especially during the winter. Unfortunately for my aunt that lives next door in that same town, even their backup generator wouldn't power up their electric stove.
 
#20

Laundress, there are certain areas in the U.S. that still have oil burners, mainly in the N.E.

I don't think coal is still a thing(?) It seems like most places have banned that due to the horrible soot, just as there are communities that have banned burning wood.  uggg.

 

What should/should have happen(ed) is there should be no wasted efforts bringing gas lines to peoples residence. 

It would be better to simply have a gas fired electric power plant in each city, and we have some already, and have people use all electric appliances. 

It would be a lot easier to bring (in theory) ONE gas line to a city to a power plant, have that power plant make electric for the homes where they could use it for heat and everything else. 

Again, there is already electric EVERYWHERE. 

Far simpler than digging up all the streets and putting in deteriorating gas lines.

 

What morons, in the 1950/60s when ever, DIDN'T think of this before?  God ridiculous.  This crap really angers me.

 

Most likely, the U.S. in our abundant wealth, Yes we are one of the RICHEST countries collectively on the planet don't ever forget that,  was trying to cover all the bases and had healthy tax incentives for communities and contractors to install all these stupid, dangerous gas lines.  

 

That's sh*ts gotta stop if it hasn't already.  
 
#23

What is with this weird thought by some people that when the utilities go out

they are all of a sudden going to be in the mood

to make an elaborate six course dinner for a formal party of Twenty?

 

In the rare event the the electric goes out I'm more concerned about making sure the stuff in the freezer and frig doesn't spoil plus a bunch of other things.  

 

---

 

If your lucky enough to have a generator, perhaps a single burner plug in stove or a microwave will be enough to satisfy your guests insatiable appetite for cooked food until the electric comes back on?   Get some Ritz crackers

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"I don't think coal is still a thing(?)"

Then you thought wrong.

While numbers may pale in comparaison to say before WWII, plenty of people still burn coal across USA and even in Canada.

Just as with us here there are plenty of forums and other groups devoted to those who burn coal.







https://coalpail.com/coal-forum/

From upstate New York down through PA into the Appalachia and down onto the south yes, people burn coal. Things pick up again in areas of mid-west or west where coal can be had such as Wyoming.

If one is living out in the boonies or whatever and there isn't natural gas, propane (if it can be found) costs dear and ditto for oil, coal and or wood makes sense. USA like Canada and many parts of Europe have vast reserves of coal.

Bonus points is that if one knows where to look that coal supply can be totally free. Abandoned mines, culm heaps, etc....
 
The natural gas industry has known for some time now that they have a limited time before the public is fed up with their b.s.  

Remember all the big gas line projects that were in the works in the NE that voters finally said NO during the 2020 election.  

When I lived in VA.  There was one going through the state to N.C. that had been haulted. I used to have to drive passed the open spots where the trees had been cut out and the ground graded but no pipe put in.

The same thing in Minnesota, a pipeline coming from Canada passing into Illinois.

 

The majority hate this sh*t.  Oil companies knew that they had limited time to push through their environmental destructive projects. And the banks are also pulling the cash because they can put their money in easy to install solar projects that don't cost anywhere near as much and have an almost guaranteed return.

 

https://www.virginiamercury.com/2023/01/05/game-over-for-the-mountain-valley-pipeline/
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#26

Like I stated, few

 

A medium city's worth of people are still polluting the air in abundance and pissing off their neighbors.

 

The majority of coal is used in electric generation and even that is declining due to increased regulation.

 

Renewable has actually taken the lead over coal this year.

 

[this post was last edited: 1/10/2023-18:26]

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3
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