Need Advice about Dishwashers..

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mich

mich

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Joined
Apr 22, 2013
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538
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Hells Kitchen - New York
Before I start, I wanna say, I may know a *thing* or two about Laundry Detergent, and Detergents in General, when it comes to actual machines, I feel like I know pretty much nothing. So, I could really use a hand here, as honestly, I just can't make a decision. 

 

I should say, our current, Kenmore Ultrawash is honestly, on it's last leg. I'm not gonna say I hate it but, I've always *felt* like it could do a slightly better job.

 

I say this because, I like to put our Huge, Pyrex Glass Casserole dishes in and they never come out completely clean. I've tried rearranging them, and all sorts of things, and while they do come clean, there not completely clean.

 

On the other hand, I load dried on Oatmeal & Cereal & Soup covered dishes in the top rack, really hard to scrub, and it comes out just spotless. I honestly think, it does a really good job, on most of our everyday dishes, and I really shouldn't complain about the performance. 

 

But, anyhow, The reason I'm asking this, is I'm torn about replacing it with another Elite Series Ultra Wash, or stepping up to a Bosch (500 series) Dishwasher. I do really like the Ultra Wash, I do.. but, I have been considering the Bosch for a long time too. I feel like the Bosch would be a Great performer, but, on the other hand, you know, my Ultra Wash, does a great job, can I really do *any* better?

 

I'm asking here. Because, you guys are the real experts in this. If you had your Choice, would you go with another Whirlpool made Ultra Wash, or a Bosch? And Why? Any advice, or information about the two, would be extremely appreciated. 
 
I'm gonna go on a whim here and make a suggestion:

 

BEFORE you consider replacing the dishwasher, I would perhaps suggest disassembling the pump assembly, just in case some broken glass or other garbage has gotten caught up in there. It may be that the water flow to the spray arms is just constricted enough to affect washing in the bottom rack, but not so much in the top rack.

I believe there are multiple dis-assembly procedures you can look at online :)

 

Another suggestion I have to make regards your plates and items that go in the dishwasher: I've actually found that our older, etched dinner plates have this "squeaky clean" feeling to them most of the time. The plates are actually a little bit sticky feeling.
If you pre-rinse, "over dose" your cycle or detergent choices you can cause etching, and once the plates are etched, it seems that dishwasher just can't clean them properly anymore.

That is, at least, my experience in the DishDrawer with "eggy" plates, or stains like tomato. Otherwise, I don't have cleaning issues caused by the machine itself.

 

If you do decide to go with a newer machine, unless your plates only have food soil, no soft foods or very small bones (fish bones) then I probably wouldn't suggest the Bosch on the grounds of having to clean the filter somewhat regularly. Yes, the clean well, but the "idea" of cleaning the filter, or not being able to load up crusty casseroles, burnt on stuffs and the like into the machine and being able to "forget" about it is not something many like.

Therefore, I would probably recommend a newer Kenmore UltraWash, with the food-chopper and self-cleaning filter. I believe Bob (Appnut) has one of later machines of this lineage, and gets great results from it using SmartWash. We all KNOW how dirty his plates are, and how long those sit before being washed!!!
 
Do everything you can to restore that UltraWash, because you're not going to find anything else that compares to it (besides an original PowerClean). I agree with washer111; take the module apart at the bottom and make sure it's cleaned out. You'll be surprised at what can accumulate over years of use. The video I linked shows how to replace the impellers, so that should be enough to reference how to get it apart/back together. I'm sure after some TLC with an old toothbrush it'll be running like new and you won't want another!

 
Also make sure you run the hot water at the sink to get it good and hot before starting the dishwasher. Most any dishwasher will clean well if you have good and hot water and a good detergent to start with.
 
HOT Water

I always do that trick, because, our Dishwasher is on the second floor, and the hot water has to travel a very long way to get over there. I always turn on the "Hi-Temp Wash" too, but the incoming temp averages about 120ish, sometimes 130*. 

 

I've already taken it apart, and the bottom pump was clean as a whistle. Seriously, there wasn't a speck of food, besides a small piece of white plastic (it looked like from a funnel). This was really comforting to me, because it confirms my suspicion that the Cascade Powder I'm using is still very fresh, and the enzymes are still well active. 

 

I never really pre-rinse anything. And.. everything, almost always comes clean. It's really sparingly that it fails on me (except when it comes to those casserole dishes), and maybe a random fork or spoon from time to time. 

 

I honestly think, it's the circulation pump that's failing. Although, at this point, I think, I might come out ahead just swapping it out with a slightly newer model. I'm just really curious, to hear everyones opinion, on a Bosch vs Whirlpool based machine. I really don't mind cleaning a filter every other time. It's not really a bother for me. 
 
 
A service tech on another discussion group I follow recently advised someone that his company no longer instructs customers to purge the supply line before starting because current enzyme detergent formulas work better starting cool and heating gradually to the lower target temps that are programmed nowadays.
 
Are You Sure Things Are Being Positioned Correctly?

If the upper rack is "clean" but things in the lower rack aren't, I'd try loading the latter a different way. If this is anywhere near "modern" unit it will be skimpy on water use which means one must pay particular attention to how things are loaded. Otherwise what little water there is won't hit the proper spots IMHO.
 
Fix Or Replace

I would also recommend fixing your current DW since you have liked it over the years, it sounds like you checked over the pump system so the other likely problem is the inlet valve. You can either try adding 2 quarts of hot water to the DW each time it fills through the cycle and see if this helps the DWs performance or just replace the inlet valve if you don't have the patience to do a lot of testing.

I would NEVER buy a Bosch DW when we have such good American machines available, I will always buy products where the employes have full union rights when ever possible.

Bosch DWs are also very difficult to install and service, when you have problems with the main pump in a Bosch DW it is a throwaway time, same with door hinge and spring problems.
 
OK?!?

1st: I suppose Bosch employes have simmilar rights to employes at WP. And we all know what all out there is WP made.
And for those parts you said: I never saw any DW with a broken hinge our spring, especially not a BSH. And on the topic of pumps: Do you think that a broken WP made pump won't mean its death either? Simply any DW today is made to be scrapped if the pump dies. And this first has to happen.
 
henene4

I think what John was trying to say is the Pump/Motor assembly is an all-in-one and perhaps very expensive unit, whose replacement could fund an entirely new machine. 
 
I also find it interesting to hear about the water-line purging.

 

Then again, with lower inlet temperatures, much lower washing temperatures and the fact that machines skipping Pre-Wash (or only just) means the "rise" you get from the hot purge is pretty worthless. But the added time spent heating water WOULD increase washing time and thus improve results. Hmmm. 
 
Pump/Motor assembly is an all-in-one

Sadly that does seem to be the way many modern dishwashers are produced. At least from one's research in attempts to deal with our own pump/motor situation.

As with washing machines today's dishwashers seem to be designed for only *minor* repairs. If and or when say the pump and or motor goes unless it is under warranty most customers will chuck the unit because the repairs are dear in relation to cost of the machine.

Way around this is to seek sources for cheaper parts but then not all repairmen will use customer supplied parts. Miele here won't and or will only warranty work done with "official" Miele parts. Of course if one plans to do the repair one's self that is a different story.
 
Main Pump and Motor Assemblies In Modern DWs

On all WP built DWs made since they started building their own DWs in the late 1950s the complete main motor and pump can be removed WITHOUT removing the DW from its installed position, [on all WP built DWs since 1964 you lift the the entire motor and pump right out of the machine from the inside ] and it takes only 15-20 minutes to complete the repair, which for our company means you pay no more than $40 for the labor to do this repair.

THIS IS NOT THE CASE with Meile, Asko, Bosch and a few others where you have to remove the entire machine lay it on its back or side and start dissembling [ remember how much you paid to have your DW installed ? ] well add that to the repair bill.

This is probably the reason over the last 40 years we have replaced thousands of pumps and motors in WP, GE, KA, MT and even Frigidaire DWs, I have only ever replaced ONE pump and motor on a Miele DW and one on a Bosch, all the others that I seen get replaced and recycled usually by a WP built DW, they just arn't worth fixing, most people won't pay $500 to fix a Bosch or $800 to fix a Miele DW.
 
It might just be the casserole itself. I remember my mother having a huge stainless pot that she'd use for searing meat on the stove and then continue cooking it in the oven for hours. That thing (and its matching glass lid) would not come clean in the dishwasher. Just didn't happen. The Bosch cleaned pretty much anything else I threw at it (see here: http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f142/Meine_Fotos/2eef4deb.pbw) so I accepted that these two items were from dishwasher hell.

Alex
 

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