New Garbage Disposer

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Well, if the old Waste King has brushes, maybe that's the problem with it jamming all the time? I'll have to check and see if they are worn at all, after 20 years or so I think they probably are worn. That would explain a lot - esp the fact that it will stop cold when confronted with a bit of chicken cartilage or a rubber band... which it should be able to smash to smithereens...!
 
These are New now they have More power 1 1/4 is alot of power for a home disposer.I might get one and weld the impellers on it but I still dont care for that small opening they have.Has Anybody ever had one of thoese Ise Medallion 1.1 Hp disposer is there anything differnt about them.I avoid any ISE with thoese stamped grind rings cant use them at all.You can see a video of a one of thoese sideways disposer on you tube there made by Hammerall its a great design and uses less than half the water that a regular disposer.

2-1-2008-21-38-39--volsboy1.jpg
 
I know this might sound crazy....
I have always wondered why they have never made a disposal like a tree cutter. You know, the type that can grind a stump in seconds....teeth that turn into each other. I am sure that the motor would have to be very strong, but if you used gears, you could keep the same size motor. Let's say, a 1 horse power motor.
Or another way to think of it, is like a paper shredder. Only on a bigger scale.
I guess the thought would be that it would be too effective, and would cause a clog. However, if there would be a "holding" chamber that would know when the crap was "paper fine" and would flush it down the drain when perfect.
What do you think? I don't think the disposal has not really changed all the much since it's invention.
Most plumbing issues as far as clogging, is due to a disposal, in one way or another.
There used to be a great video from GE of a clear disposal in action from the first round of disposal's. I can't find that video anywhere.
Brent
 
Disposal history...

The first disposal was invented by John hammes in 1927, It was a horizontal machine. Hammes patented his invention, and spent the next few years playing with the concept. By the mid 1930's he had refined his disposer to what it still is today: a vertical motor machine, a rotating disk with hammers wearing the garbage down as it was tossed around a ring that was jagged.
GE bought license to Hammes' patent and put their first *Disposall* on the market in 1936. For those who watch ebay, there was just one of these units for sale on there a few weeks ago, never used!
GE's first disposal was batch feed. GE would stick to batch feed models only until the late 40's.
Hammes watched GE put their version of his invention on the market, and decided to form his own company to make disposers. In 1938 InSinkErator was born, and their first machine was continuous feed. ISE materials I have read states they sold 50 disposers their first year.
After WWII it was John Hammes who started pushing his disposer to home builders. Up until the late 80's the only way to get an ISE disposer was to either buy a new house that came with one(and you usually got a badger I) or have a plumber install an ISE.
Waste King appeared in 1948 also with a Continuous feed model. They made the concept popular.
During the 50's there were many variations on the disposer, and most major appliance brands had a disposer in their line. Even Eureka Williams, best known for vacuum cleaners, made a garbage disposer,
As time went by, brands came and went. Waste King and GE were the best known brands in the 50's and 60's, with Anaheim-Tappan taking a chunk of their markets in the 1970's. As all this was going on, ISE was quietly prospering through its plumbers-only and new construction sales, and from Sears. About 1966 ISE started making disposals for Sears, and they have yet to stop.
GE stopped making their own disposals in the early 80's, then went back to making them about 1988, only to stop again in 2001.
Waste King changed hands a number of times too, before finally being bought by Anaheim in 1994. In the last year Anaheim has ditched all the brand names that made them famous(Sinkmaster and Whirlaway) and focused mainly on the Waste King name.
ISE went retail in the late 80's, and today they own 80% of the disposal market.

I think a paper shredder type disposer would be cool, but maybe too good. You drop a dish cloth or a spoon into one of those and its gone! At least one of today's disposers won't do too much damage to either!

Click the link below to see the 1938 GE Disposall that was listed on ebay...its upside down in the picture.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=250204834298&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=015
 
As an eBay Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
Now if these guys made a disposer-SSI-they make the industrial low speed high torque shredders that have been here before-grinding up appliances and just about anything elese.I am afraid these would be just too expensive to make as a home disposer.you have to start with the motor or engine-than to the frame-has to be substantial to withstand the high torque.then two or 4 precisely matched blade rotors that intermesh with each other-yes like a common paper shredder but tougher.and a hopper assembly to let garbage in-but hands bodies etc out.
wood chipper styles would be difficult as well and dangerous.These are designed for wood-may not work so good for liquidy food waste.and again expensive.Since drum type chippers grab the item and pull it in-yes would be dangerous.Disc type chippers are safer-but use a roller feed system to push the wood into the blade equipped disc.and the roller will feed YOU into the cutter disc if the roller grabs your hand or clothing.The roller is driven by high torque.Again an expensive and DANGEROUS design-bet any "housewife" would ask "Hubby" to run it!

http://www.ssiworld.com/watch/shred.htm
 
I have a Patriot chipper-shredder in the back yard. 6 HP Tecumseh motor. I've gotten a lot of use out of it, prmarily for reducing a lot of English ivy clippings to kibble for the compost bins. Typically a shredding session will fill a cubic yard of reduced clippings.

The Patriot has two systems: the shredder which consists of four Y-shaped steel hammers mounted on the periphery of a vertical spinning disk, which is inside a scroll shaped shredding chamber. These swivel (sort of like a garbage disposal's impellers) and are good for reducing leaves and twigs less than 1/2" diameter to pieces about the size of a quarter (twigs tend to be longer and thinner). Stuff gets beat up by the hammers until it exits a shute at the top side of the chamber. Then it has two steel blades mounted on the face of the disk. A tube on the side of the machine directs limbs up to about 2.5" diameter into these cutters, which "chips" them fairly rapidly.

The Patriot needed a new bearing rebuild about three years ago. I was attending technical school so I took the worn hammers into the shop to measure their hardness. I was interested in maybe fabricating new ones. As I recall, the hardness was about RC40. This is harder than plain "mild' steel, but well below what a knife might be. I looked into various steel alloys for replacement, but never got around to it. Anyway, I simply flipped the hammers around to present a new sharp edge to the incoming feed and that worked well. The blades on the chipper side were still in very good shape. I might have put a new edge on them with the grinder. Will probably have to replace the hammers for the next go-round, but for now they're working well enough.

The Patriot is basically a gravity feed. One must be careful when feeding it tough viny stuff - the spinning disk will grab the vine and whip it in, so you want to make sure you're not gripping it tightly so you don't go with it. Normally if I have a lot of viny stuff (like wisteria), that will go into the recycle bin; I won't even bother trying to shred it. The ivy vines are generally short and not a problem in that area. The machine does not like overly damp stuff, or vegetation with a lot of moisture in it. That kind of thing can clog the shredding chamber and stall the motor. So it's not a design that would work very well as a garbage disposer.
 
Sudmaster:I have an electric (1.5hp cap start induction motor) electric shredder-chipper-mine is similar to your Patriot-mine has 2 "J" hammers-like flail mower blades and two Triangle shaped steel hammers.I have flipped the edges on mine.Use mine for garden waste and "red bag" paper waste-works better than a regular paper shredder.At some point I will have to get a gas motored shredder for outside.I have a huge pile of pine tree branches-they are too much for my electric one-its not a Patriot but similar-"Bio-cycler" I beleive-bought it years ago from a mail order garden supply.I can bet the shredder sectiopns of out machines are something similar to a horizontal motored disposer.Will look up "Garbell" to see-curious if that is the same disposer I saw on the Battleship Mobile!that boat dates back to WW2.also was impressive and you felt safe sitting in one of those 16" gun turrets!Oh yes the machine I have also has a chipper knife on the flywheel.A separate feed opening is used for it.If you need new hammers for your unit-like me at sometime I will look at the Agri-supply store out here and see if flail mower "knives" will fit.they might fit your machine when the time comes.The length and hole size,weight would matter.the mower flails are sure similar to the "J" blades mine uses.Oh yes-on your machines hammers?-are they two 'J" hammers set back-to back to make a "Y"this is done on the flail mowers.your machine in that aspect is similar to one section of a flail mower.Don't know if you have Agri Supply stores in your area-but a similar farm supply store may have flail blades or hammers that may fit-or yes you can fabricate them yourself.
 
Looked up the Garbel website-they show a video put to music-"Pirates of the Carribean" theme-of one of their machines grinding up 600pounds of fruit-vegetable waste in 11 min.Quite impressive-the machine is more like an auger compactor shredder than a disposer.imagine that would sure make an interesting huge capacity worm juicer.there was LOTS of juice in the charge box under the auger.the other machines they make are similar to the disposers I saw on the ship.It would seem the Battleship Mobiles disposers must have been built by another company.Garbel isn't old enough-1950-the ship was built before then.Too bad the website doesn't tell more how the units work and how they are constructed.They just show the applications of the units but no details on the models.Wonder if there are other horizontal motored disposer builders out there?Garbel did indicate their machines sue less water than impellor machines.
 
imagine...

an SSI type disposer under your sink... the sky would be the limit there, everything could go, bones, food scraps, tin foil, paper, seafood shells, plastics...that style could eliminate the kitchen trash can completely...
Now for a plumbing line that could support the output!
 
Toli,

As I recall the Y-hammers on the Patriot are single pieces. Basically stamped steel, about 1/8" thick, with a twist in them. Something I figure I could fabricate myself, if I wanted to. However I can order new hammers from Patriot, so there's no need to go searching for other replacements at this point, unless when they need replacing Patriot no longer offers them or has gone out of business. At the time I was on a tight budget (return to college) and I was learning how to make stuff out of metal, so that's why I was looking into making my own hammers.

The big question I had, and still have, is exactly what type of steel would be best for these hammers. The hardness indicates that they are a bit harder than regular steel, but not as hard as one could get. Someone suggested getting some 4140 alloy steel, which when heat treated a certain way would approximate the hardness I measured on the original hammers. Plain steel would probably work, but probably wouldn't last as long as partially hardened stuff. One wouldn't want to use fully hardened steel as it might shatter in operation with nasty shrapnel.

Meanwhile I'm being careful not to let rocks, dirt, dry wood, or non-vegetative material enter the shredder, so as to minimize wear on the hammers.
 
Sudsmaster:I commonly see reference to mower blades and mower flails made out of "spring steel"and premium versions with "hardened" edges made from spring steel but hardened cutting edges.the ad for these blades and flail hammers suggests"Ideal for roadside mowing and crop shredding"This applied to the blades and hammers for tracctor powered mowers-flail and regular rotary.I was also able to get a premium hardned edge blade for a Sears Craftsman mower-the blade did stay sharp a bit longer.
Hoover1060: Would love to have an "SSI disposer" but my septic tank wouldn't support it.Imagine how often I woiuld have to have it pumpted out-and if you are on a sewage system-the sewer and water company would be VERY unhappy with you if you introduced shredded plastics,metal,paper into their systems.I could see a smaller version of an SSI unit used as a pulper system-this would allow only solulable food wastes into the system-and the other items go to a special trash system.I beleive Commercial Waste King and Commerical ISE have such systems for large restuarants,food processing companies,etc.I wouldn't want to pay the cost of a Low speed high torque shredder for food waste-the precision cutters and alignment-and transmission sytem to convert the high speed low torque of typical engines and motors to low speed high torque needed for the SSI unit.And the frame to hold all of this has to withstand the torque stresses put on it.But would be fun though-maybe they could work out something with one of their single shaft shredders-this would be less expensive-would be some thing like the horizontal motored disposers.And the single shaft unit they make has an optional Hydrualic ram to push items into the cutting shaft.
 
I don't know what a "flail blade" is, but it's possible that mower blades could be "case-hardened", which hardens only the surface of the material (perhaps about 1/32" of it), but retains the tough resistance to shattering of the original plain steel material. Case hardening is accomplished by subjecting the steel to carbon fumes at high temperature for a number of hours (overnight, typically) in a sealed box. Then, the material is heated again, and quenched, to produce the hard outer layers. Finally, it is heated to a lower temperature a third time and allowed to cool slowly, to "temper" or reduce the hardness and brittleness of the outer layer (otherwise it might craze, crack, or break on its own). It's a complicated process but one which no doubt became a valued blacksmith/swordmaker's secret when it was first discovered centuries ago. In essence case hardening turns the outer layer of low-carbon steel into high carbon steel, which is capable of attaining high hardness if properly heat treated, without going to the expense of actually producing high carbon steel, and retaining the easy machinability and toughness of the original mild steel (before hardening).

That said, I don't think the Y-hammers in this shredder were case hardened. Or, if they were, it was to a rather low degree of hardness (most case hardening is to about 58RC, as I recall I measured these hammers at about 40-45 RC).

The problem I see with case hardened mower blades is that the hardened layer will be thin enough that it might be removed with the first sharpening. And I haven't seen any hardened consumer-grade rotary lawnmower blades in the home improvement stores. One wouldn't want a fully hardened blade spinning around at high speed, hitting a rock, and shattering.
 
Case harden-firearm receivers are case hardned-esp for rifles.Gunsmiths have to use carbide bits to drill them or they are drilled at the gun factory for scope or other sight mounting.I tried the special Sears blade that time-good point as to how many sharpenings they can go thru over a standard blade.I too have not seen any fully hardened mower blades because of the breakage hazard-esp at the high speeds mower blades are spun.I have a link to the company that builds the largest number of flail mowers-they have the greatest selection of models-they have a model that can fit almost any tractor.The flail mowers are common in the Southeast and by many highway departments for roadside and medium mowing.Alamo industrial has an excellent webiste and can show how the flail mowers and big rotary mowers work.They even have on-line operators manuals for them-quite interesting.

http://www.alamo-industrial.com/
 
Yeah, I googled flail mower and found out what they look like and what they do. Not something most people would have for their lawns, though... I did run across some stats on how dangerous rotary lawn mowers are in the hands of the average homeowner. A lot of foot injuries - many because some people are not smart enough to wear shoes when they mow the lawn. Just what do they think is under that deck? I wonder if they stick their hands in their blenders, too...

Carbide drills can get through hard steel, but even it will have a tough time with the hardest stuff. At a certain point electric discharge machining (EDM) is required to cut hardened tool steels. EDM "drills" are called "hole poppers"... Case hardened is probably more drillable because the hardness is just a relatively thin layer, and once you're through that, it's relatively easy.
 
Sudsmaster:Yes I have heard of instances where householders have stuck their hands in a running blender-Iced drink-too much ice and too little liquid to pull the ice into the blade-instead the "resourcefull" blender user uses their fingers to press the ice into the blades-result --blood shake?A favorite was some bozos were trying to use their rotary mower as a "hedge shears"They tried to hold the mower over the hedge to cut it-result-they both lost their fingers!
I have seen EDM machines sold out of the gunsmith supplier "Brownells" for reciever drilling and cutting muzzle break ports in gun barrels-esp large bore rifles for African game hunting to cut down recoil.But the side effect is more noise and muzzle blast.When an elephant,lion,water buffalo is charging you-you won't notice the recoil.I have had a large bore rifle-they are exhilirating to shoot--but expensive.Ammo for some of those cost up to $200 for a box of 20 rounds!So much for using that rifle for a Sat afternoon plinking session.
 
Meet MUFFIN MONSTER!!He likes just about anything you flush down into your sewage system---like rags,dead fish,sheets,army blankets,cans,bottles,sponges,etc-the list goes on.On their website you can see their machines chewing thru various things-its just that a twin shaft shear shredder that can be put in a plumbing system.also one of these stars in a Sci-Fi-Horror movie-its detailed on the website-the machines uses up to 5Hp motors-low HP requirements-replaces machines having higher horsepower.Suppose it could be conceivable you could use one of these beasties at home-you just need the 3 ph power to run its motor-or maybe you could retrofit it with a single ph 3-5 hp motor and 220V.In some of the videos on the website-hands sure get awfully close to those blades in the demos of the hopperless Muffin Monster grinders.The lady that tests these at the factory is something elese-quite a dame!

http://www.jwce.com/products/detail.asp?id=31
 
YIKES!!

That is some shredder, I'd be all kinds of scared of one of those under my kitchen sink!!
As noted too, safety would be a major issue too.
You'd never get back the fork or dishcloth that accidentally fell into that thing!!
I also noticed the size of the pieces... kinda large. You'd need a 2-inch drain line to handle pieces like that!
 

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