new here - just want to say hi

[foraloysius]

Tom,

The raised rectangle at the right of the drum is the softener dispenser that older models didn't have. The picture of 6.39 shows such an earlier model.

There are actually three lid switches. In the 6.35 picture you can see two small pins sticking out of the rim (on the inside, near the detergent dispenser, that is hiding in front of the drum). The third is the button in the molded part of the lid, just under the lidlock.

The picture of the booklet shows the small model on the right and a regular European toploader on the left. The machines in the pictures are all smaller models and all of them have the 4kg capacity (sometimes rated somewhat bigger).

I don't know where the opening at the back is, actually I'm not sure if they had them. Perhaps the older Novamat (not Novomat as I typed earlier!) had it, I'm not sure. I think it was Siemens who had such a thing, but then again I'm not even sure about that. LOL

I have never been able to defeat all those lidswitches. I got nauseous from just watching the very fast up and down dancing machine.

Your interest isn't sick at all, these machines are really fascinating and it's great to talk about them.

Louis

 

[panthera]

novamat and mini

I think Louis has found some of the grooviest stuff ever. Thanks!
There is also a magnetic safety switch on lots of these...so you have to defeat three or four switches, depending on the exact specifications.
Yes, Tom, that is the machine I meant. I think you can see from all the pictures Louis posted (great!) that there have been many incarnations of this washer. The very old one with the two knobs on the side was built by another firm and sold by AEG (might have been a subsidiary). The name fails me, but it sounds like ministar or some such. This machine had no suspension at all, simply relying on a big roller in the front and the wheels in the back to roll back and forth with the spin. Which was only a few hundred r.p.m., anyway. It did, however wash very well.
Destructive is, I guess, a good term for them. On the other hand, Europeans take a very dim view of the US tendency towards "dumbing down". Parents here aren't supposed to let their children get into dangerous situations; adults are expected to use their heads. Safety interlocks on the washers, yes. Warnings not to dry your pets in the microwave, no. No wasted space, they were really compact and well designed. The frames had lots of cast iron hung on them (the chassis was self-supporting) and you would find various water pressure switches or other things tucked into nooks and crevices all over the place. The heating elements were increadibly powerful. Probably the biggest single difference to US machines. The slow heating of water to the ulitmate temperature (European "warm" is warmer than US "hot") was ideal for the enzymatic action of the detergents.
Oversudsing was a mega-mega-mega problem with these things. I used to keep a few pounds of salt and vinigar spirits in the bathroom to calm things down.
A friend of mine mentioned this morning that the switch to DC from AC motors upped the reliability tremendously, I just don't remember.
One last thing, you can see from the lid that is just hooked on (where did you get those great shots? And any chance of one with the case off? Please!?!)just how easy it was to kill these by forgetting to put it in place - or not quite locking it correctly.
The three knob units were at least as flexible as the '59 Computers from Westinghouse... I used to just sit there on the toilet seat and read the whole list...over 20 common possibilites...then my roommate would come in, shake his very blond hair, giving me the evil eye through the strands and pouring in the detergent by guestimation. He'd throw in half again as many clothes. Turn on the water faucet and pull the timer knob. "Niemand hat jemals den mittleren Knopf gebraucht in der Geschichte der Welt. Du spinnst!" (Nobody has ever needed the knob in the middle, you are a nut-case. Then he'd wander back out of the bathroom muttering about crazy Americans and decadent engineers being made for each other.
Guess he was right - the clothes always came out clean and nothing tore, shrunk or turned pink.
Funny to hear you found 500 r.p.m. too slow...lot's of US machines don't even do that and folks wonder why their clothes itch and the dryer bill is so high. We used to tell our customers not to even think about anything under 800 r.p.m. or get a Wäscheschleuder (centrifuge).

 

[panthera]

yeah, the little hole by the button filter

Forgot - the little hole down by the button filter is the overflow. Sometimes it was higher up. These machines are still in use in a lot of homes...perhaps because of their ST. Veitus' Dance method of spinning, they were really well built.
The two pins Louis mentioned on the sides were the lid interlock. They, together with the hold-down for the lid plunger and the magnetically actuated safety-switch were a very effectivve means of preventing anything horrid happening. Since the first spin could easily have taken place with 95° C water (just under boiling in Fahrenheit) you can imagine the dangers involved. Interestingly, they were real water pigs. Unbelievable the amounts they gulped. Especially considering their size. Supposedly had to do with efficient rinsing dispitge the tight confinement.
Oh, the drain hose used to jump out of the sink when they went dancing across the floor during the final spin. Since it was often weighted with a heavy lead or steel extension, it did a job on the sink or bathtub while the washer was doing in the toilet.
Nobody needed TV with these babies...

 

[tomturbomatic]

Keven, you forgot "in the history of the world," in your translation. Since you both mentioned the middle dial, how did the letters and numbers match up to create the cycles?

Thank you and Louis for taking the time to explain all of this.
Tom

 

[panthera]

wer recht hat, hat recht

Tom, you are right. I was translating the gist, not the entire sentence. Actually Manfred used to say a great deal more than that---especially when he killed two of these in one month by forgetting the lid.
His wife does not permit him anywhere near their kitchen, by the way. I understand her completely.
Ok. The knob on the left is the timer. The one on the right is the thermostat (and remember, this is centigrade, so it goes from cold to nearly boiling.).
The one in the middle had (depending on model and year) various functions including: Spülstop (no last spin, stuff floated in water). Wasser/Stromsparer - Water/Electricity saver (varied alot over the years, sometimes it really cut the water used in each cycle, sometimes just cut an extra rinse.) Energy Saver - this one sunk the final temperature from 95 to 60 or 60 to 40 (again, varied over time and model) and increased the length of washing time to achieve equivalent results.
And so on.
The timer itself had lots of possibilities. Since German washers wash for hours and hours and hours (ok, 187 minutes max on my current machine -but hey - that is 3 hours +) an additional 20 minutes here or there didn't matter.
You could vary the cycle time, degree of agitation, spin speed, spin type, water level...pre-wash(es) and so on.
Non-intuitive for me, but there were some built-in safeguards. "Wolle" (Wool) for instance would ignore any heat settings above 40° (luke-warm) Permanent-Press overrode the water-saving and automatically sank the 95° wash temperature you had chosen to 60° (if lower, that had priority).
In the 6 years I lived together with the guy, he said "in der Weltgeschickte" at least twice a week regarding me and my US-American ways. He was a member of the German Greens (in the reginal parliment later) and super eco-oriented. First time he went on vacation, I bought a washer. Second time, a clothes-dryer. Third time a dishwasher.
He never took another vacation until after he had married and moved out.......

 

[panthera]

list on right

Forgot the list on the far right of the control panel. There you had a range of washing programmes in the first column (Vollwasch, Kochwasch, Seide, etc.)
In the next column the timer settings, then the extra options (the notorious knob in the middle) and finally the temperatures recommended - with the warning that not all were supported.
This list was not complete, but it covered about the 20 most common possiblities. Some others were useful, like when soaking overnight. There you would fill and heat, then switch to last rinse (agitation) without draining. Or on some models they actually did soak with occasional agitation overnight.

 

[foraloysius]

Most of the pictures I posted are from the internet, these washer often show up on the German eBay site. I saved a lot of pictures of washers. Unfortunately there are many more on the harddrive of my old computer, but I can't get access to that harddrive :-(

Keven, is it possible that the first Novamatic was built by Cordes? They made compact toploaders too. Just a guess though.

These machines are indeed like other European machines capable of doing boil washes, but they also have a cooldown at the end of the mainwash. I don't think the plastic standpipes could stand that much boiling water. My guess is that at the end there was about 10 litres of water added.

Sudslock is indeed a major problem with these machines. The space between the inner and outer drum is pretty small I guess, although I have never seen one of these machines open. I guess it's also the reason why they only have a final spin and no spins between rinses. Imagine these machines spinning after every rinse!!

Here's an explanation for the timer and the cycle selector of my AEG Lavamat 220 (picture witht he brown control panel with three dials):

Timer:

Regular:

1. Prewash
2. Main Wash
3. Short Wash
4. Last Rinse
5. Spin

Delicate:

6. Prewash
7. Main Wash
8. Last Rinse
9. Short Spin

Cycle Selector:

A: Cottons
A½: Cottons small load
B: Permanent Press
B½: Permanent Press small load
C: Soak cycle
D: Delicate cycle
H: Wool

As you can see my model has a separate temp. comtrol.

The models with two controls mostly have a timer with integrated temperature choices and a cycle selector.

Keven,

I had such a good laugh over your picture of the member of the "Grünen". Spot on!!

 

[panthera]

cordes/miele

I am not sure, but don't think so...Cordes was way too technically advanced. Their variable level (Mehrstufenschleudern) process back before electronics was just the bee's knees. Didn't they get bought by Miele?
Their mini's were way better built than the AEGs, at least the ones we saw in the workshop. Almost all were there because of scale or the rubber boot being gashed by the drum.
Yeah, Manfred was a Green with humor. Not too many have that. They are mostly known for their "no" mentality.
When I bought the dishwasher, he said he wouldn't use it. Never mind that they use less energy and water...it was the principle of the thing.
His protest lasted until our first big party. I went to bed at 2 in the morning...at 4 I woke up and found him in the kitchen unloading the dishes...
The Greens are usually right in the end, but their attitude is often worse than the Americans when they think they know best about...well, just about everything.
Some SL 64s did do a spin after the second rinse, by the way - just a short one.
Still suds-locked. Heck, they suds-locked continuously. Manfred found a bio-organic-decomposable detergent based on coconut fibers or some such which didn't foam but cleaned well. That solved the problem.
The integrated temperature controls were one of the many great features of these machines. In a way, Manfred was right - just set it and forget it. You couldn't make any crucial mistakes as long as you chose the right program.
Wool, by the way, left the clothes floating in water in mine. This was lots of fun, cause the water was always ice cold by the morning - no heat in the bathroom (the hot water heater was fired by putting in coal).
Memories, ah memories.
One other little detail: The fill-solinoid was anchored to the frame and not the rear wall. This meant it you over-tightend it, the plastic nut would sometimes get caught in the cut-out in the rear wall and be impossible to remove.
Anybody have any experience with the Bosch/Siemens/Constructa minis? We didn't repair them because the boss thought they were too cheaply built to guarantee. He stayed in business by providing a one year guarantee on the used stuff he sold (in Germany in those days you had 6 months. Weird, huh? Best quality in the world and no guarantee...just the opposite of the 'States, where manufacturers are held responsible for what they make.)

 

[tomturbomatic]

hot water supply

Keven, was the hot water you spoke of for the radiators to heat the house or was it the domestic hot water supply like for bathing, or both? Did the same coal-fired boiler heat both or was the domestic hot water heated separately by coal? A separate coal-fired water heater sounds sort of hard to regulate. It must not have been like our storage tank water heaters over here. Did you have to stoke the furnace in the morning?

 

[foraloysius]

Yes, Cordes was bought up by Miele. I think it was because of the commercial line that Miele achieved them, at least so I was told.

Here's a picture, I see quite some similarities between the old Novamat with the controls on the side and this Cordes toploader.

 

[foraloysius]

BTW, talking about Siemens, they sold a small toploader and a small topload dryer. According to Fredriksam these dryers were actually made by Cordes. Here's a picture of the toploading dryers.

 

[panthera]

it was not easy to regulate

I think Louis is right, that sure does look like the minis which AEG sold way back when.
The dryers are definitely Cordes, that drum, that boot, that lip in the upper panel is all Cordes - Siemens could never be bothered to achieve that level of quality themselves (they are about the only European white goods maker whose quality got better over the last 20 years. And it needed to.)
The coal fired water heater was an open tank. This means water was only then displaced when a valve let cold water in. Once you began the heating, there was no way to stop it. You heated about 40 gallons of water to more or less near boiling (took surprisingly little coal) and it heated the whole bathroom along with it. I found the warmth very pleasant, it was very much radiant heat. The water, of course, was enough for very long showers or a full bath of very hot water or two warm baths.
They were very common after the war, burnt most solid fuels - coal prefered - and in the late 70's were gradually converted to gas burning, just like the coal fired gravity furnaces in the 'States.
Nowadays, Europeans tend to use demand water heaters. Running three phase at 7, 8 or more Kilowatts they put out very hot water with high effeciency...but are only about 16 inches high by 12 inches wide by 4 inches deep. Waterproofed, they are usually hung right about the bathtup. Work great, but eat electricty like mad.
The old water heaters used to run dry occasionally. The soldered joints would melt (molten lead in the bathroom, delicious) or, even more fun...people might let them run dry then add cold water to the red hot metal.
Dangerous and unsafe at any speed.
What it comes down to is this. Until very, very recently, Germans (most Europeans) did not have hot water or gas or high voltage electrical lines in their bathrooms. The English still have a lot of really archaic rules, which even the continental Europeans have given up.
This lead to lots of self-heating appliances. Since a slow rise in temperature over a long time is the ideal way for enzymes to dissolve dirt, enzymatic detergents became much more popular here than ever in the 'States. Properly rinsed, they are also easier on the skin, too.
I think US homes were more comfortable until about the late 1970's, then the Western Europeans caught up and moved far past. Pity, but as soon as a country decides it is the best, most advanced and perfect place in the world...well, look at Japan until the 1870's...