New Miele W1 Little Giants

[henene4]

Since when does a commercial laundry setting have time not to tumble dry everything???

Miele has like 3 different machine iron dry settings on their commercial machines.

And even the through-load-style machines have the same honeycomb style drum.

It is true that certain soils have certain solids in them that would not pass through small holes.
But I would never trust any washer with such loads if I'd need extra machines to be abled to trust them.
Loads of laundry are just have to many nooks and pickets for such stuff to be cought in.
Such stuff is removed prior to washing.
As someone who has stomach issues knows that from experience...

And on householdmachines:
Most machines oftoday have recirculation systems. And as someone has mentioned these issues even with a machine with recirc, the whole aregument is moot point.
And using machines with normal or even more then normal hole count one can say that from a certain point on, fibres are still just as much of an issue.

 

[henene4]

But on another note

Would be really interested in the new dryers.

Up to now, all dryers on the commercial side were basicly what Miele marketed as "Twin Power" on their first heatpump dryers for home use: Machines with 2 full motors (blower and drum).

If they still use that setup that would be interesting to see what the usage would be like.
And if they just use one large one speed heatpump orif they might actually use an inverter heatpump.
And what that new filter looks like.

 

[launderess]

Ideally since arrival of extractors

Things should come out of a (commercial) washer (or extractor if separate machine) dry enough to go straight to ironers if that is their ultimate destination. Remember the process of ironing does dry materials, it just depends upon how damp they are for a start.

Now there has been and still is a debate among "laundrymen" about the value of pre-conditioning flatwork and other goods to be sent to ironers by sending them through dryers first.

Some of this is because a dryer will break apart and otherwise fluff and loosen what can be a hard mass of extracted laundry. In old days they had (or still do for all I know) workers called "shakers" who took flatwork and other wash from machines and shook, unfolded and otherwise separated the mass which came out of washers/extractors. Another way of dealing with this was with a machine called a "tumbler" which did just that, but didn't dry.

There is considerable energy and time savings to be gained if wash can go directly from extractor (or washer) to ironer. But only if goods are evenly moist enough for proper ironing that the machine doesn't have to run slowly to evaporate excessive water.

With nearly fully automated laundries built around continuous batch washers (tunnel washers) you tend to see even linen going to be ironed sent to dryers first. Again this is because the extractor of tunnel washer doesn't leave things dry enough for fast ironing, and they emerge in a flat mass pancake.



Here from Kannegiesser (at about 5:40) you can see again linens coming from dryer and sent to an automated ironing/folding.



Same in Spain:



Couldn't find examples in video, so links to print will have to suffice.

https://cgilaundry.com/commercial-rentals.html

From below you see what one has been saying; the dryers are used more to "pre-condition" the linen (breaking apart the hard mass that comes from washer/extractor) then fully drying.

http://www.laundryandcleaningnews.com/features/featuregetting-the-best-from-the-ironer-line-4499844/

 

[sudsmaster]

Is the topic of this thread, the new Miele "LIttle Giant" W1 washer, intended primarily for residential or commercial usage?

 

[henene4]

The little giants were always ment as a broad band solution.

You will find these over here anywhere from doctor offices to laundromats to multi housing units to commercial laundry setups.
Though you'll often find the washers paired with larger dryers the more commercial the setting gets.

They are basicly used anytime the amount of laundry you do is "household-sized" but the usage is high.

 

[launderess]

"Is the topic of this thread, the new Miele "LIttle Giant" W1 washer, intended primarily for residential or commercial usage?"

Well answer to your query comes from where Miele markets the machines; and that would be as part of their professional series.

Best case they are very high grade OPL solutions for domestic users who want something more than what from the residential line.

 

[moon1234]

Our family of thirteen, soon to be fourteen, people would love to have the step up from the Little Giants (PW6080 or PW5105 for washer and PT7186 for dryer), but Miele refuses to sell them in a residential setting. There are ways around this, but for the average person it is not doable.

We do 5-7 loads (sometimes more) a day. We are using residential W1/T1 machines and they are doing fine, but I will bet dollars to donuts that they won't last the five year warranty period. I'm guessing the extended warranty WILL be used.

The Miele sales rep in Princeton that I got quotes on commercial equipment from said they had a LOT of businesses buying the W4840 and W4842 to use in a commercial setting. Said he knew of thousands that went to gyms and were used for towel duty. They bought these instead of the commercial models due to cost. Miele still honored the warranty, but lost money due to all of the service needed on the machines. They would be in use almost all day and night. That coupled with all of the little issues homeowners were seeing and I can understand why they wanted to pull out of that market.

We got 15,700 hours out of our W4840 before it died. We paid $1800 for the washer. The commercial model of the same capacity is three times the cost, yet if the average residential unit made it to 15,000 hours the business owner would come out ahead since two residential washers would last as long as a commercial unit. If said Spa, Gym, etc. had five washers and five dryers this turns into real cash.

I took my kids up to a waterpark in the Wisconsin Dells four or so years ago and they had Miele W4842 and T9802 pairs sitting in a room near the pools. Staff were feeding the "free" towels into them constantly. They did express washes, dried them and put them back on the "Free Towel" rack. So I have personally seen this being done. They also had a Large, probably 50lb or larger, washer in there that I assume they used when they got backed up. We went on a weekday when it was not so busy.

 

[launderess]

Over years have seen at least two or three

Little Giant sets on offer (CL) at practically give away prices.

Story was same; people somehow got their mitts on the things, had the required electrical work and whatever else needed for installation..... now are moving house but not taking the units.

It largely comes down to the electrical requirements for washer I suppose. If not many Americans bothered with the 208v-240v connection needed for a compact unit, having to double or triple that (not sure) for the Little Giant washer surely wasn't going to fly.

For the OPL laundry market and or small dry cleaners/laundries Miele washing machines long have been popular. No American manufacture offers the same build quality, cycle choices and so forth, especially at those price points. If you want something with built in heating then Miele might be the only way to go; unless of course you have a steam line or something.

 

[freshnclean]

Buying at non retail price

Finding a little giant washer is hard. I’m in Seattle it this helps . Any tips or experiences?

 

[moon1234]

Just call Miele directly in Princeton, NJ and ask to speak to sales. They will sell directly to you on any little giant model. They usually discount some to offset the cost of shipping. If they don’t then ask for a discount. Worst they can say is no.

 

[freshnclean]

W1 over the little giants

Moon1234,

With 14 people household , that’s a lot of laundry . Why was the w1purchased over the little giant ?

 

[moon1234]

Little Giant is smaller than W1 capacity wise, cost and we plan to build a house this year. We run a commercial farm so can purchase the larger octopus models without issue. The w1 was always intended as an interim solution, but we really like them. The TwinDos option is now the only way we dispense detergent.

We are now considering two or three sets of w1/t1 vs the pro line. They work that well. We usually have lots of loads that just fill a w1 cycle. Towels, whites, colors and undies. If we could do two or three loads at the same time and have proper sorting, that really speeds things up.

 

[logixx]

Press release

https://www.miele.de/en/m/miele-at-...nse-performance-on-a-small-footprint-4778.htm

 

[henene4]

So...

After writing Alex (logixx) an E-Mail commenting on the direction Miele is heading in I thought to myself: "Hey, you know your buisness, check the Miele manual data bases!"

First I checked on the 7000 line for home appliances.

Found some new lowest-end G7000 models (still as efficent, same cycles and options, still same interior design, just no touch interface - scrolling through cycles with a button - and no AutoDos), found exactly 2 oven manuals (both MOL non pyrolytic, so nothing interesting) and some verry interesting looking hobs (full flex induction for up to 6 pots at a time).

But overall, not much.

So, the new little giants were next.

The start was somewhat rough as my usual search tricks returned so many results the site crashed.

But, after some fideling, I found the first machine (I searched for EL AV manuals, so only professional machines heated with electricity and a drain valve showed up).

And from that one on, I hit the checkpot:
I saw that that first machine had the shorthand ANL in its title, and that usually shouldn't be there.

So I searched for ANL and BINGO.

Ok, the manuals that are online are anything but finished, however they already show lots of verry interesting things.

First of, dryers are PTE and PDR now, washers PWE and PWM now.
Professioneller Trockner Elektrisch and Professional Dryer
or respectivley
Professionelle Waschmaschine Elektrisch and Professional Washing Machine.

Color codes are LW for "Lotus Weiß"/"Lotus White" respectivley and "ED" or "SST" for "Edelstahl" or "Stainless Steel".

Dryers are either HP/WP for HeatPump/Wärmepumpe or EL/AB for Electric/Abluft.
Washers are either DP/LP for DrainPump/LaugenPumpe or DV/AV for DrainValve/AblaufVentil.

Some were labeled D, some CH and some not at all, so those are probably country shorthands.

Some had an MAR which probaly means marine versions.

Two dryers had an 208/240 behind them, one being HP and EL.

One washer had an 63.5l in the name, that could either be the usage or the drum volume.

A washer and a dryer were labeled QSR. The washer manual wasn't avaible, but the dryer had a mid-range UI setup, so that is probably that, though no idea what QSR could stand for.

Many machines did not have a trim level asigned, but from what I can figure out there is Performance, Performance Plus, Evolution or Advanced.
The 63.5l was labeld Perf.P, so most likely PerfPlus (which often got cut down to Performance Plu).
There was also a Hygiene tag on and those machines only had disinfection cycles as additional programms.

I'll attach 2 screenshots showing all the model numbers.

So, what I have learned.

First of, for WHAT EVER REASON they have cap dosing on the washers and fragrance thingy on the dryers.

They have 2 label cycles, one triangle-thingy label cycle (the normal energy rating cycle accoding to EU law) and a Pro label cycle.
The manuals a verry vague about that. Only thing is that the load consists 50 50 of cotton and polyester, it is called the "Professional Label cycle" and that it does apparently have an EN paragraph, but no number yet.

No usage data is filled out.

All the dryers I chekced had a 130l drum.
I only saw 7kg and 8kg washers.

There are 3 UI layouts from what I saw.
One is cycle selector dial plus small touchscreen.
One is just small touchscreen (that was the QSR dryer).
One is large M-Touch touchscreen.

No recirculation pump.

Apparently 1600rpm.

Many cycles, many options (pre wash, pre rinse, intensive, soak [its 10min long], water plus, extra rinse, starch stop, rinse hold, pre ironing), depending on model of course.

Many setup options in terms of cycle modification (stuff like which parameters are selectable or which are displayed during a cycle, you can alternate all water levels, temperaturs, fills, rinse numbers and levels, timings etc.).

Overall I would dare to say they could be really nice, like impressivley good.

Just the pricing will be interesting.

But I will keep searching the archives for more!

On a side note:
There were some model numbers in that long list that seemed odd and unfamiliar.
For example, the WWE360. A PW2.0 8kg machine with SingleWash, but only 1400rpm and limited cycle selection.
Or a WCG170 (no manual).
Or some old numbers the internet knows next to nothing about like a W677 EcoSilence (apparently a toploader).
But most odd I found these machines on the third screenshot. 2 of those had manuals, apparently for the same machine, I think a first gen PW model with steam finish.
Just odd...

 

[henene4]

Some more cross refference searching

OK, so, they lied at least a bit.

By checking some keywords seperatly, I found some more information.

Some machines do have Cotton Eco cycles, some have Cotton Pro and some have both.
Cotton Pro apparently is a verry efficent 60C cycle for normaly soiled mixed loads which is shorter then the true Eco cycle.
A washer with usage data (PWM 507, 7kg) is rated A+++ on the EU label scale. They do in fact have 1600rpm. The eco rating cycles do take 3 hours and use obscenly little water.
But even the normal cycles are pretty efficent. True 60C cottons with 2 rinses takes only uses 49l, 0.98kWh and 59min from cold fill.
At 40C usage drops to 0.55kWh, everything else stays the same.
A boil wash is done in under 90min with 57l and only 2kWh.

Some other manuals I found do have usage data in them as well.
The vented dryers are fast (and wastefull).
The heatpump dryer that had usage data in it even had a true EU rating. It was the matching dryer to the 507 washer, the 507 dryer. Rating is A++, A class condensing, 92min for a full load and 59min for a half load.
However, the cycle time table clearly shows that a 7kg load spun at 1600rpm from the companion dryer takes 71min. 71min is longer than an hour.
Ts ts.

There are mop versions as well already.

Further searching also reveled a PWM906.
(So, keep in mind I am writing this tag-on post as I am searching and reading.)

It is almost embarassing to admit how long it took me to realize that the last digit of the model number indicates the capacity.
PWM906 has 6kg, PWM907 has 7kg, PWM908 has 8kg.
Also interesting: The full touchscreen models allow you to create up to 5 individual cycles with up to 7 blocks each.

These machines also allow you to activate and deactive load sensing at will as well as something called "Controlled Energy Usage". On the boilwash, colours and easy care cycle, that option ensures the most energy efficent operation if it is activated. Probably something along the lines of not reheating the wash water 2min before the wash ends.

Oh, and as a side note if you should ever happen to use such a machine: All codes are default to 000. I would suppose many people just don't bother to change that code.

 

[tompw60]

PWM Little Giants in UK

Hi there

just read through the whole thread.

when do the Professional PWM series washers and dryers come on sale in the UK?