New Miele W1 Little Giants

[sudsmaster]

I'm not so sure the "electrical requirements" of a Miele washer is all that important.

That's because Miele sells a setup where both the washer and dryer can run on a single 220 volt split phase American dryer outlet. Electric dryers seem to account for 50% or more of American home installations, after all.

More likely it's the smaller capacity of the traditional Miele that turns off some buyers - as well as the significantly higher price.

As for Electrolux, I like very much their front loaders, but they have poor market penetration in part due to the fact that they can be quite hard to locate in shops here. I like their washer because it seems to be the only front loading washer on the market with a reversible door. (I have a tight laundry closet where the washer must go to the right of the dryer). Their build quality seems OK to me, above average for washers for the American home market.

 

[launderess]

Was referring to the 208v-240v connection in general

Not every home has such electrical service in their laundry area, especially when it came to urban settings where it meant apartments.

Miele lost many sales here in NYC because even residents of our very best white glove buildings found their requests to upgrade electrical service denied.

Or course if one owns one's own home as in a house or something besides multifamily that is something else.

Often what it came down to is that due to age of housing stock it wasn't just a matter of upgrading a meter. But replacing a fuse box *with* a meter and pulling up wiring to handle the increased loads from basement panel. This was if things could be supported without having local utility run a new line from street to panel.

We've had this discussion previously; you have multifamily housing here where units barely have 100 amp service. That and there hasn't been any significant upgrading of electrical service since building went up ranging from early part of last century to the 1960's.

Salesmen at local Miele dealers would tell of deals they thought were done, only to have customers either return the Mieles for something else, or cancel entirely because of issues getting proper electrical service installed.

 

[freshnclean]

208v -240 v setup for washer

This setup should essential for washers. I know it’s expensive but It keeps whites whiter , hygienic , and many other clothes cleaner . Most of clothes I keep for a long time

 

[sudsmaster]

A lot of multi-family housing buildings have shared laundry facilities anyway.

 

[rolls_rapide]

"I still think, that a really fine perforated drum is better for cleaning e.g. flushing out hair, particles or sand than a Miele Honeycomb drum."

I have to say that I agree.

I have a Panasonic (Gorenje made), which has a drum with very few holes in it. I notice that fluff, hairs and lint have a tendency to remain in the drum. Even small pools or puddles of water in the drum are reluctant to drain away. It probably doesn't help with rinsing or spin efficiency either.

On the other hand, I do think that drums with thousands of holes are probably the better bet.

 

[sgt10]

How many drain holes are enough? I think the Little Giant already has around 1000. I have noticed any issues with water or debris left in machine. IMO it offers superior cleaning performance, although I certainly have not observed all of the brands mentioned here. The main issues are its electrical requirements and its cost. Of course, a better made machine will cost more to make. But what proportion of the cost is due to Germany’s work rules and regulations and social policies? When one buys a Miele one is also paying those costs.

 

[launderess]

Whatever reasons Miele and others give in their marketing materials and elsewhere about benefits of "Honeycomb" drum and or smaller holes leave us have no delusions. One large (if not main) purpose is that those smaller holes keep more water inside main basket as opposed to between. It is about close to solid tub washers of old as they are going to get.

OTOH in commercial laundries you have "sluice" washing machines where inner basket has large (or decent sized) holes in order to allow solids, muck, vomit and other debris to freely exit and flush down drains.

In fact even on commercial washers of old (and maybe modern for all one knows) you don't find any of this pin sized holes in drum nonsense. It is just unsanitary.

This is why you can load say the Braun machine shown here with poopy diapers and or other laundry contaminated with solids and have things come out hygienically clean.

 

[freshnclean]

Small holes to reduce frailling of the fabrics

I think at one time miele’s marketing team claimed that the honeycomb drum reduces the frailling of the fabrics.

 

[launderess]

Small holes to reduce frailling of the fabrics

Well they would say that wouldn't they?

When you have cycles that go on for 1.5, 2 or more hours yes, am sure some sort of mitigation against textile damage must be instigated.

OTOH commercial washers (and some old domestics) can crank out full loads ranging from eleven pounds (domestic) to several hundred (commercial) in anywhere from just less than one hour to in about 35 minutes. The latter is mostly commercial machines however.

It all comes down to the wash "pie" for optimal results; chemicals, time, mechanical action and water used. Any decrease in one results in a required increase in others to compensate.

So these "honeycomb" washers use less water, fair enough I suppose. But they still have to get things clean. So cycle time is increased which again means beating washing about for long periods of time.

 

[sudsmaster]

It doesn't make sense to me that the honeycomb drum would retain more water than a more perforated drum. That's because the water is introduced from outside the drum, and gets into the drum through the holes.

Or am I missing something?

Also, poopy diapers aside, the place where most larger debris is removed from fabrics is in the dryer, not in the washer.

And poopy diapers are supposed to be flushed out prior to loading in the washer anyway. I remember my mom dunking them in the toilet and sticking them back into a wet pail for the journey down to the Bendix front loader in the basement.

 

[launderess]

Patent for Miele's honeycomb drum: https://patents.google.com/patent/US20090211313A1/en

If by "larger debris" you mean hair or whatever, maybe so for residential settings.

OTOH for commercial/industrial laundries things are different. First and foremost not every wash load will go to the dryers for "larger debris" removal.

It would also be questionably hygienic not to mention visually repulsive to have bits of vomit, faeces and other matter "dried" onto fabrics and or contaminate that machine as residue. Have read online reviews of laundromats where customers found dried bits of faeces in tumble dryers before putting their freshly washed laundry. Needless to say it put them right off and while having to get the job done, obviously chose another machine.

What someone choses to do in their own home in regards to soiled linen obviously is influenced by many factors. OTOH if you think a commercial/industrial laundry is going to manually sluice/pre-rinse scores if not hundreds of pounds of washing per hour or day; think on.

Not even sure various local, federal, union or accrediting bodies allow such a thing.

Before Chux, disposable diapers and other such things came along hospitals, nursing homes and other facilities dealt with far more fouled laundry because diapers and draw cloths were washed and reused. This on top of soiled patient gowns, bed and bath linen. Linen from infectious wards/rooms, OR and so forth is what it is.

http://www.laundryserv.co.uk/blog/posts/05-06-2014/do-you-need-a-sluice-cycle

 

[henene4]

Since when does a commercial laundry setting have time not to tumble dry everything???

Miele has like 3 different machine iron dry settings on their commercial machines.

And even the through-load-style machines have the same honeycomb style drum.

It is true that certain soils have certain solids in them that would not pass through small holes.
But I would never trust any washer with such loads if I'd need extra machines to be abled to trust them.
Loads of laundry are just have to many nooks and pickets for such stuff to be cought in.
Such stuff is removed prior to washing.
As someone who has stomach issues knows that from experience...

And on householdmachines:
Most machines oftoday have recirculation systems. And as someone has mentioned these issues even with a machine with recirc, the whole aregument is moot point.
And using machines with normal or even more then normal hole count one can say that from a certain point on, fibres are still just as much of an issue.

 

[henene4]

But on another note

Would be really interested in the new dryers.

Up to now, all dryers on the commercial side were basicly what Miele marketed as "Twin Power" on their first heatpump dryers for home use: Machines with 2 full motors (blower and drum).

If they still use that setup that would be interesting to see what the usage would be like.
And if they just use one large one speed heatpump orif they might actually use an inverter heatpump.
And what that new filter looks like.

 

[launderess]

Ideally since arrival of extractors

Things should come out of a (commercial) washer (or extractor if separate machine) dry enough to go straight to ironers if that is their ultimate destination. Remember the process of ironing does dry materials, it just depends upon how damp they are for a start.

Now there has been and still is a debate among "laundrymen" about the value of pre-conditioning flatwork and other goods to be sent to ironers by sending them through dryers first.

Some of this is because a dryer will break apart and otherwise fluff and loosen what can be a hard mass of extracted laundry. In old days they had (or still do for all I know) workers called "shakers" who took flatwork and other wash from machines and shook, unfolded and otherwise separated the mass which came out of washers/extractors. Another way of dealing with this was with a machine called a "tumbler" which did just that, but didn't dry.

There is considerable energy and time savings to be gained if wash can go directly from extractor (or washer) to ironer. But only if goods are evenly moist enough for proper ironing that the machine doesn't have to run slowly to evaporate excessive water.

With nearly fully automated laundries built around continuous batch washers (tunnel washers) you tend to see even linen going to be ironed sent to dryers first. Again this is because the extractor of tunnel washer doesn't leave things dry enough for fast ironing, and they emerge in a flat mass pancake.



Here from Kannegiesser (at about 5:40) you can see again linens coming from dryer and sent to an automated ironing/folding.



Same in Spain:



Couldn't find examples in video, so links to print will have to suffice.

https://cgilaundry.com/commercial-rentals.html

From below you see what one has been saying; the dryers are used more to "pre-condition" the linen (breaking apart the hard mass that comes from washer/extractor) then fully drying.

http://www.laundryandcleaningnews.com/features/featuregetting-the-best-from-the-ironer-line-4499844/

 

[sudsmaster]

Is the topic of this thread, the new Miele "LIttle Giant" W1 washer, intended primarily for residential or commercial usage?

 

[henene4]

The little giants were always ment as a broad band solution.

You will find these over here anywhere from doctor offices to laundromats to multi housing units to commercial laundry setups.
Though you'll often find the washers paired with larger dryers the more commercial the setting gets.

They are basicly used anytime the amount of laundry you do is "household-sized" but the usage is high.

 

[launderess]

"Is the topic of this thread, the new Miele "LIttle Giant" W1 washer, intended primarily for residential or commercial usage?"

Well answer to your query comes from where Miele markets the machines; and that would be as part of their professional series.

Best case they are very high grade OPL solutions for domestic users who want something more than what from the residential line.

 

[moon1234]

Our family of thirteen, soon to be fourteen, people would love to have the step up from the Little Giants (PW6080 or PW5105 for washer and PT7186 for dryer), but Miele refuses to sell them in a residential setting. There are ways around this, but for the average person it is not doable.

We do 5-7 loads (sometimes more) a day. We are using residential W1/T1 machines and they are doing fine, but I will bet dollars to donuts that they won't last the five year warranty period. I'm guessing the extended warranty WILL be used.

The Miele sales rep in Princeton that I got quotes on commercial equipment from said they had a LOT of businesses buying the W4840 and W4842 to use in a commercial setting. Said he knew of thousands that went to gyms and were used for towel duty. They bought these instead of the commercial models due to cost. Miele still honored the warranty, but lost money due to all of the service needed on the machines. They would be in use almost all day and night. That coupled with all of the little issues homeowners were seeing and I can understand why they wanted to pull out of that market.

We got 15,700 hours out of our W4840 before it died. We paid $1800 for the washer. The commercial model of the same capacity is three times the cost, yet if the average residential unit made it to 15,000 hours the business owner would come out ahead since two residential washers would last as long as a commercial unit. If said Spa, Gym, etc. had five washers and five dryers this turns into real cash.

I took my kids up to a waterpark in the Wisconsin Dells four or so years ago and they had Miele W4842 and T9802 pairs sitting in a room near the pools. Staff were feeding the "free" towels into them constantly. They did express washes, dried them and put them back on the "Free Towel" rack. So I have personally seen this being done. They also had a Large, probably 50lb or larger, washer in there that I assume they used when they got backed up. We went on a weekday when it was not so busy.

 

[launderess]

Over years have seen at least two or three

Little Giant sets on offer (CL) at practically give away prices.

Story was same; people somehow got their mitts on the things, had the required electrical work and whatever else needed for installation..... now are moving house but not taking the units.

It largely comes down to the electrical requirements for washer I suppose. If not many Americans bothered with the 208v-240v connection needed for a compact unit, having to double or triple that (not sure) for the Little Giant washer surely wasn't going to fly.

For the OPL laundry market and or small dry cleaners/laundries Miele washing machines long have been popular. No American manufacture offers the same build quality, cycle choices and so forth, especially at those price points. If you want something with built in heating then Miele might be the only way to go; unless of course you have a steam line or something.

 

[freshnclean]

Buying at non retail price

Finding a little giant washer is hard. I’m in Seattle it this helps . Any tips or experiences?