One wonders how interest is coming out of gate from laundry appliance hobbyists versus general consumers.
New Miele W2 Nova Edition on Miele Swiss website
- Thread starter mielerod69
- Start date
Help Support :
Completly new QPW cycle
Somebody (german, of course) got a WQ1000 and started filiming, with a QuickPowerWash 40C cycle.
Things of note in order of video appearance:
- You can select Eco and a pre wash on QPW now - but no extra rinses ?!?
- Load sensing has certainly been improved. I would almost say you can see 3 different stages of load sensing. First it tosses it around as if to check if it's a very small load. Then some tumbles. Then some spinning for weighing. Then the familiar spin sequence from W1 washers.
- Washing is suprisingly good. The saturation process is now completly different with shorter tumbles, more spraying, a small spin at the start. Really well designed for washing at least.
- Later you can see the machine actually shows water used now down to one decimal place AND the FlexLoad load dectection result appears to displayed in the info screen.
- I am almost certain the recirculation pump runs at different speeds during heating, saturation, washing, etc. by the way the spray pattern looks.
- Now rinsing - well... It's drain, rinse, spin, rinse, drain, rinse, final spin. So you actually get 3 rinses in a way?
- However, you can see that once the water levels get higher, tumbling just DOES NOT HAPPEN - which might be off-settable in longer cycles. But in this quick cycle, I would almost dare to say they'd been better off with dropping the rinse water levels further, cutting the interim spin (if they couldn't manage timing other wise) and doing 4 low level flush type rinses in very quick succession. Almsot like flow through rinsing (fill, 60sec tumble, 30sec drain; times 4 - shouldn't be much more than 10min regardless).
The "second" rinse shows how with a low level the laundry still tumbles quite well, regardless of drum speed.
Now I am really curous about Cottons rinsing.
Overall I am not terribly disappointed - but programming could have been further refined with what it is.
Somebody (german, of course) got a WQ1000 and started filiming, with a QuickPowerWash 40C cycle.
Things of note in order of video appearance:
- You can select Eco and a pre wash on QPW now - but no extra rinses ?!?
- Load sensing has certainly been improved. I would almost say you can see 3 different stages of load sensing. First it tosses it around as if to check if it's a very small load. Then some tumbles. Then some spinning for weighing. Then the familiar spin sequence from W1 washers.
- Washing is suprisingly good. The saturation process is now completly different with shorter tumbles, more spraying, a small spin at the start. Really well designed for washing at least.
- Later you can see the machine actually shows water used now down to one decimal place AND the FlexLoad load dectection result appears to displayed in the info screen.
- I am almost certain the recirculation pump runs at different speeds during heating, saturation, washing, etc. by the way the spray pattern looks.
- Now rinsing - well... It's drain, rinse, spin, rinse, drain, rinse, final spin. So you actually get 3 rinses in a way?
- However, you can see that once the water levels get higher, tumbling just DOES NOT HAPPEN - which might be off-settable in longer cycles. But in this quick cycle, I would almost dare to say they'd been better off with dropping the rinse water levels further, cutting the interim spin (if they couldn't manage timing other wise) and doing 4 low level flush type rinses in very quick succession. Almsot like flow through rinsing (fill, 60sec tumble, 30sec drain; times 4 - shouldn't be much more than 10min regardless).
The "second" rinse shows how with a low level the laundry still tumbles quite well, regardless of drum speed.
Now I am really curous about Cottons rinsing.
Overall I am not terribly disappointed - but programming could have been further refined with what it is.
"I am almost certain the recirculation pump runs at different speeds"
Yes, according to one of the owners.
Yes, according to one of the owners.
Those cotton cycles are over all really nice IMO.
I don't quite get why you need almost 30min for a final spin. 17min used to be extravagant, now that.
And 2h main washes for a partial load?
I mean, we knew they had to compensate somewhat for the reduced mechanical action.
Performance surely will be stellar and if it is actually that much more gentle on clothing - sure, I guess?
But I don't think that's the next big thing. I don't see these performing any better or worse in general than a W1.
I just don't see why we needed this innovation...
I don't quite get why you need almost 30min for a final spin. 17min used to be extravagant, now that.
And 2h main washes for a partial load?
I mean, we knew they had to compensate somewhat for the reduced mechanical action.
Performance surely will be stellar and if it is actually that much more gentle on clothing - sure, I guess?
But I don't think that's the next big thing. I don't see these performing any better or worse in general than a W1.
I just don't see why we needed this innovation...
My 2 Cents
I guess when Miele introduced the Honeycomb Drum in 2001, it was their big thing and, eventually, most brands introduced their own version of some sort of drum pattern.
The Infinity Care drum is probably their next "unique" thing in drum design and fabric care.
I guess when Miele introduced the Honeycomb Drum in 2001, it was their big thing and, eventually, most brands introduced their own version of some sort of drum pattern.
The Infinity Care drum is probably their next "unique" thing in drum design and fabric care.
mielerod69
Well-known member
New QPW cycle
Here are some of my observations.
"You can select Eco and a pre-wash on QPW now, but no extra rinses!?".
If you select the Allergy option, this will add an extra rinse. The video shows that the program duration is 55 minutes rather than 49 minutes. The Allergy function replaces Water Plus.
"Washing is surprisingly good. The saturation process is now completely different, with shorter tumbles, more spraying, and a small spin at the start. Really well designed for washing, at least".
The wash action in QPW is very good, with the jet working for most of the main wash.
"I am almost certain the recirculation pump runs at different speeds during heating, saturation, washing, etc. by the way the spray pattern looks".
The recirculation pump has an inverter motor, but the drain pump has a standard motor. I think the drain pump should have been an inverter as well.
"Now rinsing - well... It's drain, rinse, spin, rinse, drain, rinse, final spin. So you actually get 3 rinses in a way?"
Yes, with Allergy, you do get an extra rinse and a higher water level in the main wash.
"However, you can see that once the water levels get higher, tumbling just DOES NOT HAPPEN - which might be off-settable in longer cycles".
It would be good to see the rinse phase without the Allergy option with the same load.
Rinsing has improved in the Cottons program as the jet is used throughout the rinse phase. This gives a better exchange of the wash/rinse liquor.
I saw a video on Instagram of the Bedding program, and the water in the final rinse is clear, and that program only does two rinses as default.
Here are some of my observations.
"You can select Eco and a pre-wash on QPW now, but no extra rinses!?".
If you select the Allergy option, this will add an extra rinse. The video shows that the program duration is 55 minutes rather than 49 minutes. The Allergy function replaces Water Plus.
"Washing is surprisingly good. The saturation process is now completely different, with shorter tumbles, more spraying, and a small spin at the start. Really well designed for washing, at least".
The wash action in QPW is very good, with the jet working for most of the main wash.
"I am almost certain the recirculation pump runs at different speeds during heating, saturation, washing, etc. by the way the spray pattern looks".
The recirculation pump has an inverter motor, but the drain pump has a standard motor. I think the drain pump should have been an inverter as well.
"Now rinsing - well... It's drain, rinse, spin, rinse, drain, rinse, final spin. So you actually get 3 rinses in a way?"
Yes, with Allergy, you do get an extra rinse and a higher water level in the main wash.
"However, you can see that once the water levels get higher, tumbling just DOES NOT HAPPEN - which might be off-settable in longer cycles".
It would be good to see the rinse phase without the Allergy option with the same load.
Rinsing has improved in the Cottons program as the jet is used throughout the rinse phase. This gives a better exchange of the wash/rinse liquor.
I saw a video on Instagram of the Bedding program, and the water in the final rinse is clear, and that program only does two rinses as default.
I think Miele decidedly did not use an inverter drain pump.
They had a machine with an inverter drain pump and I am almost certain to have read at least one report where a blocked drain pump caused a control board issue.
I still don't get why all the manufacturers put the inverter electronics on the main control and not on the pump.
A 30W motor driver chip is REALLY cheap and running normal line voltage plus 2 com wires isn't terribly difficult.
If a pump burns out then, you'd only have to replace a 80-ish euro/dollar party and not the 200-ish main PCB.
And yes there is an Allergy option in the programming you could select.
But there is a rinse plus option on a cycle per cycle basis as well.
There is just no reason not to offer that if even LG gives you the option to add a rinse on their 39min wash.
I don't want EVERY cycle to enhance rinsing - especially if most other cycles now 3 rinses by default.
And going into the settings menu just for QPW every single time is just ridiculous.
They had a machine with an inverter drain pump and I am almost certain to have read at least one report where a blocked drain pump caused a control board issue.
I still don't get why all the manufacturers put the inverter electronics on the main control and not on the pump.
A 30W motor driver chip is REALLY cheap and running normal line voltage plus 2 com wires isn't terribly difficult.
If a pump burns out then, you'd only have to replace a 80-ish euro/dollar party and not the 200-ish main PCB.
And yes there is an Allergy option in the programming you could select.
But there is a rinse plus option on a cycle per cycle basis as well.
There is just no reason not to offer that if even LG gives you the option to add a rinse on their 39min wash.
I don't want EVERY cycle to enhance rinsing - especially if most other cycles now 3 rinses by default.
And going into the settings menu just for QPW every single time is just ridiculous.
Just saw that Miele removed all the washers with touchscreen from the German page - except for the Nova ones.
miele4life
Well-known member
I do quite like the Miele W2 range but the amount of hate on the YouTube comments pages are just completely unnecessary and totally unacceptable, especially from the vicious and vile trolls @SamsungLad2005 and @DeepRinseEnthusiast2002.
Anyway, it looks smart, has a slick touchscreen and the paddle-less Honeycomb Drum looks unique while the pull-down flap for the TwinDos and pump filters gives it a cleaner look.
As for the washing action, it does a very good job with larger loads while it’s swinging action helps with smaller loads too, the PowerWash action appears to clean very well with just a small amount of water as well as the use of steam from what I’ve seen on the YouTube videos so far.
I would certainly give 1 a go if I had the space for a third machine, alongside my existing Miele and Asko, if Miele seems confident about their new models, then time will tell as to whether the paddle-less drum will catch on or not, as with many of their other innovations over the years.
Anyway, it looks smart, has a slick touchscreen and the paddle-less Honeycomb Drum looks unique while the pull-down flap for the TwinDos and pump filters gives it a cleaner look.
As for the washing action, it does a very good job with larger loads while it’s swinging action helps with smaller loads too, the PowerWash action appears to clean very well with just a small amount of water as well as the use of steam from what I’ve seen on the YouTube videos so far.
I would certainly give 1 a go if I had the space for a third machine, alongside my existing Miele and Asko, if Miele seems confident about their new models, then time will tell as to whether the paddle-less drum will catch on or not, as with many of their other innovations over the years.
richnz
Well-known member
The start of each cycle is fascinating
Is the spinning sensing the size of the load? Does the resistance to acceleration measure the load size? Will there be a load sensor on future top models? As inaccurate as it is, I do like having it.
Hopefully the top models will continue to have a steam generator. Using the heating element to boil the water for steam is unsatisfying.
As fancy as the wq1000/wq1200 is/are, I can’t help but wonder if there is another model above it.
Time will tell
Is the spinning sensing the size of the load? Does the resistance to acceleration measure the load size? Will there be a load sensor on future top models? As inaccurate as it is, I do like having it.
Hopefully the top models will continue to have a steam generator. Using the heating element to boil the water for steam is unsatisfying.
As fancy as the wq1000/wq1200 is/are, I can’t help but wonder if there is another model above it.
Time will tell
I doubt there will be a steam generator model.
Miele was the only one that had one by now, and they rightfully IMO did awa with it.
You get basically the same results, except the steam generator is ever so slightly faster.
Don't see the reason to have a 200-300€ price hike for saving 10min the few times you actually use steam.
The load sensing appears to be pretty accurate actually.
The display now shows the accessed load size once sensing is complete and from what I have seen on YT it is pretty much spot on every time.
Below 4kg at least it is accurate to the kg (has to be for the SmartMatic cycle).
And I think the WQ1200 is the top model.
It's priced at the same level as the previous TOL machine.
Miele was the only one that had one by now, and they rightfully IMO did awa with it.
You get basically the same results, except the steam generator is ever so slightly faster.
Don't see the reason to have a 200-300€ price hike for saving 10min the few times you actually use steam.
The load sensing appears to be pretty accurate actually.
The display now shows the accessed load size once sensing is complete and from what I have seen on YT it is pretty much spot on every time.
Below 4kg at least it is accurate to the kg (has to be for the SmartMatic cycle).
And I think the WQ1200 is the top model.
It's priced at the same level as the previous TOL machine.
I am very confused by the larger drum model. I understand, thanks to henene4, why it is necessary for a better efficiency rating. However, the lack of 1600rpm spinning and increased residual moisture are in direct contradiction to its supposed eco mission.
I looked up the labels on the Swiss site, and the larger drum model does have substantially higher residual moisture than the 1600rpm model.
Some rough calculations indicate that, if used in conjunction with a Miele heat pump dryer, the additional residual moisture will take about twice as much additional energy to dry as is saved in the label wash cycle. This obviously makes no real sense for efficiency unless all clothes are air dried.
Are we supposed to read between the lines that it is actually desirable for the larger drum itself, even though the load rating is the same?
I looked up the labels on the Swiss site, and the larger drum model does have substantially higher residual moisture than the 1600rpm model.
Some rough calculations indicate that, if used in conjunction with a Miele heat pump dryer, the additional residual moisture will take about twice as much additional energy to dry as is saved in the label wash cycle. This obviously makes no real sense for efficiency unless all clothes are air dried.
Are we supposed to read between the lines that it is actually desirable for the larger drum itself, even though the load rating is the same?
hooverzanmiele
Well-known member
RichNZ:
Yes, I believe that 02:20 > 04:22 in the W2 vid below is the load sensing phase.
A sensing phase, once the
button has been pressed is a common occurrence with brand new models, or certainly ones from 2010'ish onward (but I'm going by the two AEG's we've had.
Our current AEG Lavamat Turbo L87696WD, when it's set on a "Normal" or "Long" length cycle, it take a minimum of 07 mins to 14 mins before it adjusts the cycle time displayed on the LCD (It starts off at 227mins (06hrs 47 mins) with Stains & at minimum 10 mins drying + PermaRinse (Permanent Extra Rinse).
I also automatically Pre-rinse the load before, then pre-filling on Woollens to have a better water level and ensure the load's getting a decent wash.
The standard cycle fir us is Cottons Quick Intensive 40°C + 10 mins drying time with IVSD Spin Dry, 144 mins (02hr 24 mins) 156 mins (02h 36) mins on wash/dry mode or 01hr 33 mins to 01hr 46 mins on wash only mode.
On the "Auto Dry" setting, it does a short 0400RPM spin at 227 mins (03hrs 47 mins), once completed, it then adjusts the drying cycle length, usually to between 80 mins & 110 mins.
Sadly my Lavamat Turbo doesnae sport a jet unlike BoschClassixx1200's John Lewis equivalent model.
Yes, I believe that 02:20 > 04:22 in the W2 vid below is the load sensing phase.
A sensing phase, once the
button has been pressed is a common occurrence with brand new models, or certainly ones from 2010'ish onward (but I'm going by the two AEG's we've had.Our current AEG Lavamat Turbo L87696WD, when it's set on a "Normal" or "Long" length cycle, it take a minimum of 07 mins to 14 mins before it adjusts the cycle time displayed on the LCD (It starts off at 227mins (06hrs 47 mins) with Stains & at minimum 10 mins drying + PermaRinse (Permanent Extra Rinse).
I also automatically Pre-rinse the load before, then pre-filling on Woollens to have a better water level and ensure the load's getting a decent wash.
The standard cycle fir us is Cottons Quick Intensive 40°C + 10 mins drying time with IVSD Spin Dry, 144 mins (02hr 24 mins) 156 mins (02h 36) mins on wash/dry mode or 01hr 33 mins to 01hr 46 mins on wash only mode.
On the "Auto Dry" setting, it does a short 0400RPM spin at 227 mins (03hrs 47 mins), once completed, it then adjusts the drying cycle length, usually to between 80 mins & 110 mins.
Sadly my Lavamat Turbo doesnae sport a jet unlike BoschClassixx1200's John Lewis equivalent model.
hooverzanmiele
Well-known member
Míele4Life:
With regards to the new W2 series from Míele, referencing your earlier remark, from my perspective:
01) I do quite like the Míele W2 range.
R) That's fine, you like it, that's your opinion, from my view, it looks snazzy, looks to do a respectable job, as it's supposed to do, however, for the £3000 pricetag, to own one, isnae worth it, personally, it was pricey enough when I plumped for my ex-NaviTronic W3985WPS, I think I'll stick with my £51.50 Míele SoftTronic WT945S.
02) the amount of hate on the YouTube comments pages are just completely unnecessary and totally unacceptable, especially from the vicious and vile trolls @SamsungLad2005 and @DeepRinseEnthusiast2002.
R) It's your opinion that those mentioned remarks are unnecessary, again, that's your opinion, you like it, it's not everyone's cup of tea just because someone voices their opinion doesnae mean it's wrong, just because it doesnae match your own opinion.
03) Anyway, it looks smart, has a slick touchscreen and the paddle-less Honeycomb Drum looks unique.
R) Agreed a, it looks smart & streamlined, and I've generally preferred a touchscreen or button control selection over a knob, personally, but not everyone will agree with my preferences.
So long as it works for the consumer who purchases one, great, as I was always told "The customer is always right".
Regarding the paddle-less wash drum, in a way, it reminds me of the old Servis Quartz models that were seemingly devoid of holes across the main expanse of drum surface, but had small holes at the very back and very front, but I reckon it'll likely turn out similar to the Merloni Servis models with the 04 paddle "speed bump" drum, when it comes to washing smaller loads, it'll just slide round the drum's surface than tumble properly.
04) While the pull-down flap(s) for the TwinDos and pump filters gives it a cleaner look.
R) I'm sure it does, I hope it's better than the filter flap/tray on my Lavamat Turbo, which imo, is too low down to the floor and just pours water everywhere as you cannae get a water container under far enough to avoid spillages.
05) As for the washing action, it does a very good job with larger loads while it’s swinging action helps with smaller loads too, the PowerWash action appears to clean very well with just a small amount of water as well as the use of steam from what I’ve seen on the YouTube videos so far.
R) This may be so, I havenae seen the wider range of cycle vids to compare against each other, I'll have to take your word for it, but I still cannae shake that Merloni 04 speed bump paddle drum action, just sliding round the drum's surface.
06) I would certainly give 1 a go if I had the space for a third machine, alongside my existing Miele and Asko.
R) As I said to point #01, me personally, I couldnae justify payin' £3000 for one, I'd rather put it toward a machine I really really want in my collection, but each to their own.
07) If Míele seems confident about their new models, then time will tell as to whether the paddle-less drum will catch on or not, as with many of their other innovations over the years.
R) True, but I wholeheartedly hope that their "guaranteed 20yrs longevity" policy kicks back into play, as from what I've heard from some other owners, the W1 series was certainly not a hassle-free ride in the park.
Guid day to y'all.
With regards to the new W2 series from Míele, referencing your earlier remark, from my perspective:
01) I do quite like the Míele W2 range.
R) That's fine, you like it, that's your opinion, from my view, it looks snazzy, looks to do a respectable job, as it's supposed to do, however, for the £3000 pricetag, to own one, isnae worth it, personally, it was pricey enough when I plumped for my ex-NaviTronic W3985WPS, I think I'll stick with my £51.50 Míele SoftTronic WT945S.
02) the amount of hate on the YouTube comments pages are just completely unnecessary and totally unacceptable, especially from the vicious and vile trolls @SamsungLad2005 and @DeepRinseEnthusiast2002.
R) It's your opinion that those mentioned remarks are unnecessary, again, that's your opinion, you like it, it's not everyone's cup of tea just because someone voices their opinion doesnae mean it's wrong, just because it doesnae match your own opinion.
03) Anyway, it looks smart, has a slick touchscreen and the paddle-less Honeycomb Drum looks unique.
R) Agreed a, it looks smart & streamlined, and I've generally preferred a touchscreen or button control selection over a knob, personally, but not everyone will agree with my preferences.
So long as it works for the consumer who purchases one, great, as I was always told "The customer is always right".
Regarding the paddle-less wash drum, in a way, it reminds me of the old Servis Quartz models that were seemingly devoid of holes across the main expanse of drum surface, but had small holes at the very back and very front, but I reckon it'll likely turn out similar to the Merloni Servis models with the 04 paddle "speed bump" drum, when it comes to washing smaller loads, it'll just slide round the drum's surface than tumble properly.
04) While the pull-down flap(s) for the TwinDos and pump filters gives it a cleaner look.
R) I'm sure it does, I hope it's better than the filter flap/tray on my Lavamat Turbo, which imo, is too low down to the floor and just pours water everywhere as you cannae get a water container under far enough to avoid spillages.
05) As for the washing action, it does a very good job with larger loads while it’s swinging action helps with smaller loads too, the PowerWash action appears to clean very well with just a small amount of water as well as the use of steam from what I’ve seen on the YouTube videos so far.
R) This may be so, I havenae seen the wider range of cycle vids to compare against each other, I'll have to take your word for it, but I still cannae shake that Merloni 04 speed bump paddle drum action, just sliding round the drum's surface.
06) I would certainly give 1 a go if I had the space for a third machine, alongside my existing Miele and Asko.
R) As I said to point #01, me personally, I couldnae justify payin' £3000 for one, I'd rather put it toward a machine I really really want in my collection, but each to their own.
07) If Míele seems confident about their new models, then time will tell as to whether the paddle-less drum will catch on or not, as with many of their other innovations over the years.
R) True, but I wholeheartedly hope that their "guaranteed 20yrs longevity" policy kicks back into play, as from what I've heard from some other owners, the W1 series was certainly not a hassle-free ride in the park.
Guid day to y'all.
English subtitles available
Besides the typical things (don't like the washing action) a lot of the complaints look very similar to W1 issues that started appearing after they started their cost cutting programs.
It's really such a shame that these machines are let down by Software issues.
Software development does take time and is costly - but they've basically adopted the ship first then do the bug fixing method so many other software items have taken on.
It's also impressive to me how many still somehow don't get heat pump drying - like at all.
But that's besides the point I guess...
It's really such a shame that these machines are let down by Software issues.
Software development does take time and is costly - but they've basically adopted the ship first then do the bug fixing method so many other software items have taken on.
It's also impressive to me how many still somehow don't get heat pump drying - like at all.
But that's besides the point I guess...
I know these machines required expensive new tooling in the factory, expensice R&D etc. but 2,400 Euros and then the display freezes or the start button won't work. Yeah, not a fan, I must admit. This almost feels like a "don't fix it if it ain't broke" scenario.
And the pod being stuck in that pile of wet clothes... I guess it's good that the patent for the similar dryer drum didn't make it to production. Maybe if they made the Queen Hives taller.
And the pod being stuck in that pile of wet clothes... I guess it's good that the patent for the similar dryer drum didn't make it to production. Maybe if they made the Queen Hives taller.
The W1 was basically useless with pods on any PowerWash 2.0 cycle. I don't know why no body has made a bigger fuzz out of it.
But yeah - at Mieles price point you'd expect some better refinement.
But with metal tub, lots of hardware features and such, something had to give somewhere.
But yeah - at Mieles price point you'd expect some better refinement.
But with metal tub, lots of hardware features and such, something had to give somewhere.
Similar threads
