New owner of a 2015 Speed Queen TL washer!
- Thread starter gusherb
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Thanks for the video! I do have one question, though: how does that spray rinse on Eco Normal work? All I can see is the water hitting the base of the agitator, while most of the clothes and the suds on the basket seem to remain untouched.
mrb627
Well-known member
Under the Lid
I noticed the lack of instructions on the lid as well. Looks ODD without them. Do they still have them on the coin-op machines?
Malcolm
I noticed the lack of instructions on the lid as well. Looks ODD without them. Do they still have them on the coin-op machines?
Malcolm
mrb627
Well-known member
PreWash
How much time does the PRE-WASH add?
Is the fill flume part of the tub ring or mounted to the machine cabinet?
I too would like to see an Eco rinse. With and without second rinse.
When filling with warm water, do you hear the valve cycling the hot on and off? Wondering how the TOL model has 4 temp options...
Malcolm
How much time does the PRE-WASH add?
Is the fill flume part of the tub ring or mounted to the machine cabinet?
I too would like to see an Eco rinse. With and without second rinse.
When filling with warm water, do you hear the valve cycling the hot on and off? Wondering how the TOL model has 4 temp options...
Malcolm
gusherb
Well-known member
I didn't even notice the missing diagram, I guess they figure nobody reads them anyway?
The machine has only been run in Normal Eco once and it wasn't by me, so I didn't get to watch it. I can tell you this though, the normal Eco cycle is pretty short. I'm pretty sure the rinse is just a long spray rinse.
When you add a rinse to the normal Eco cycle it adds on 10 minutes and is a full deep tub rinse. Speed Queen specifically says not to use normal Eco if you're using fabric softener.
Malcolm: the pre wash adds 15 minutes to the timer.
The fill flume is mounted to the cabinet.
I believe these machines do have some form of ATC but every bit of Info I've found says that ATC is only enabled in the Normal Eco cycle, which I've confirmed to be true. Heavy Duty cycle gives TRUE hot (with no flow restriction mind you) water and 50/50 mixing on warm.
I'll see what I can scrounge up for clothing, and do another video on Normal Eco!
The machine has only been run in Normal Eco once and it wasn't by me, so I didn't get to watch it. I can tell you this though, the normal Eco cycle is pretty short. I'm pretty sure the rinse is just a long spray rinse.
When you add a rinse to the normal Eco cycle it adds on 10 minutes and is a full deep tub rinse. Speed Queen specifically says not to use normal Eco if you're using fabric softener.
Malcolm: the pre wash adds 15 minutes to the timer.
The fill flume is mounted to the cabinet.
I believe these machines do have some form of ATC but every bit of Info I've found says that ATC is only enabled in the Normal Eco cycle, which I've confirmed to be true. Heavy Duty cycle gives TRUE hot (with no flow restriction mind you) water and 50/50 mixing on warm.
I'll see what I can scrounge up for clothing, and do another video on Normal Eco!
kb0nes
Well-known member
Conjecture on the cost of the control
Indeed I would guess that the actual cost of a single board is likely more then the mechanical timer they were using.
But, the overall the electronic control may be less expensive when you consider its flexibility to be used across other models with just a software change. With a mechanical timer you have to change the cams and contacts to reprogram. Because of the versatility of the base electronic control board there may be some economics of the platform scale that favor it. Having to manufacture a different mechanical timer for each machine increases costs.
Also moving forward the electronic control offers 'smarts' that a mere mechanical timer can't. While some eschew the idea of electronic controls, they will ultimately become necessary for sales due to market pressure. Very difficult to sell a basic appearing machine for the same cost as one that looks like the Space Shuttle flight deck, even if the innards are better... I like the fact that the machine can potentially function with system feedback to control the cycle based on various inputs, this is difficult/impossible with a simple mechanical timer.
Finally to reliability I would wager that SQ cared enough to use decent stuff. On the flip side I wonder if the mechanical timers they have been using in the recent years are any where near the quality of the vintage timers we all know and love. I have to think that cost pressures have made recent mechanical timers less likely to last the way their vintage brethren did.
Indeed I would guess that the actual cost of a single board is likely more then the mechanical timer they were using.
But, the overall the electronic control may be less expensive when you consider its flexibility to be used across other models with just a software change. With a mechanical timer you have to change the cams and contacts to reprogram. Because of the versatility of the base electronic control board there may be some economics of the platform scale that favor it. Having to manufacture a different mechanical timer for each machine increases costs.
Also moving forward the electronic control offers 'smarts' that a mere mechanical timer can't. While some eschew the idea of electronic controls, they will ultimately become necessary for sales due to market pressure. Very difficult to sell a basic appearing machine for the same cost as one that looks like the Space Shuttle flight deck, even if the innards are better... I like the fact that the machine can potentially function with system feedback to control the cycle based on various inputs, this is difficult/impossible with a simple mechanical timer.
Finally to reliability I would wager that SQ cared enough to use decent stuff. On the flip side I wonder if the mechanical timers they have been using in the recent years are any where near the quality of the vintage timers we all know and love. I have to think that cost pressures have made recent mechanical timers less likely to last the way their vintage brethren did.
gusherb
Well-known member
As requested here is the Al Gore...errr Normal Eco wash...
If you've noticed by now they have this model only doing a low speed spin drain after the wash cycle, in Normal Eco and Heavy Duty. Our Amana and every SQ I've seen on YT did a high speed spin drain after the wash... [this post was last edited: 4/3/2015-14:52]
http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB_yFMN-yMA
If you've noticed by now they have this model only doing a low speed spin drain after the wash cycle, in Normal Eco and Heavy Duty. Our Amana and every SQ I've seen on YT did a high speed spin drain after the wash... [this post was last edited: 4/3/2015-14:52]
http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB_yFMN-yMA
murando531
Well-known member
That spray rinse seems much more effective than what my WP 4800 does, but I'm still not convinced that it truly rinses the whole load. I'd always just use the extra rinse option or the Heavy Duty cycle. The spray rinse on the WP is water falling directly down on the agitator as the tub slowly pulse-turns, the water barely even touches the clothes. It fills with a inch or two's worth, and then proceeds to the final spin.
gusherb
Well-known member
That's why I've only used the Heavy Duty cycle so far, because of the spray rinsing and, because of the fact that Normal Eco only uses cold water.
I doubt I'll ever use Normal Eco as long as I want my clothes to actually come out clean and rinsed properly.
Now that I've seen it through the full Eco cycle, I go back on assuming the machine has any kind of ATC, it just simply uses only cold on the Normal Eco or full cold, 50/50 mix for warm, or full hot on Heavy Duty.
I doubt I'll ever use Normal Eco as long as I want my clothes to actually come out clean and rinsed properly.
Now that I've seen it through the full Eco cycle, I go back on assuming the machine has any kind of ATC, it just simply uses only cold on the Normal Eco or full cold, 50/50 mix for warm, or full hot on Heavy Duty.
mrb627
Well-known member
Normal ECO
thanks for posting the video. Spray rinsing is quite short. Noticed that. The wash light remained on through the first spray rinse. Manual indicates NE uses less hot water than regular cycles. So the initial burst of hot water is about on course with what I would expect. Probably best for everyday casual cottons and denims, but I wouldn't go much further than that.
Now we need someone to make movies of the FL machines...
Malcolm
thanks for posting the video. Spray rinsing is quite short. Noticed that. The wash light remained on through the first spray rinse. Manual indicates NE uses less hot water than regular cycles. So the initial burst of hot water is about on course with what I would expect. Probably best for everyday casual cottons and denims, but I wouldn't go much further than that.
Now we need someone to make movies of the FL machines...
Malcolm
stchuck
Well-known member
Just ordered the front loader and matching dryer
The unfortunate part is I wont take delivery for quite a while (May 23rd) as they are going into a home that we don't yet live in but will close on in early May.
The unfortunate part is I wont take delivery for quite a while (May 23rd) as they are going into a home that we don't yet live in but will close on in early May.
From one SQ owner to another CONGRATS!!!!
1. I cannot believe how high the factory set water level is!!!! AMAZING
2. Love the new fill flume!
3. I noticed the tub did NOT index, being brand new!!!
4. I WANT ONE AND I WANT ONE NOW!!!!
5. BEST OF LUCK
Sincerely,
Mike
1. I cannot believe how high the factory set water level is!!!! AMAZING
2. Love the new fill flume!
3. I noticed the tub did NOT index, being brand new!!!
4. I WANT ONE AND I WANT ONE NOW!!!!
5. BEST OF LUCK
Sincerely,
Mike
gusherb
Well-known member
Mike
I was personally so relieved to find that this machine has a high water level from the factory, and a good thing too because the pressure switch is not adjustable!
That new fill flume is supposed to aid in the spray rinse I guess, it does appear to be far more effective then the old waterfall at that.
I'm surprised at how little it indexes! It may also be cuz It's had 10 loads run through it already, but it didn't index a whole lot from the beginning.
I've wanted a SQ for 8 years now, being able to put that desire to rest has made me so happy.
I was personally so relieved to find that this machine has a high water level from the factory, and a good thing too because the pressure switch is not adjustable!
That new fill flume is supposed to aid in the spray rinse I guess, it does appear to be far more effective then the old waterfall at that.
I'm surprised at how little it indexes! It may also be cuz It's had 10 loads run through it already, but it didn't index a whole lot from the beginning.
I've wanted a SQ for 8 years now, being able to put that desire to rest has made me so happy.
paulinroyton
Well-known member
Gusherb
Hi Gusherb.
Congratulations on buying your new Speed Queen top loader. She looks beautiful and a sold machine. I have always had a fascination with American top loaders and recently I bought one from a house clearance. The machine was brand new, still had shipping brackets in place. My other half re arrange the laundry room so it would fit, we converted the garage into a laundry room and gym.
Prior to buying my LG washers I nearly bought a Speed Queen top loader. In the UK they are commercial machines used for hotels , guest houses.
More videos please.
Regards.
Paul
Hi Gusherb.
Congratulations on buying your new Speed Queen top loader. She looks beautiful and a sold machine. I have always had a fascination with American top loaders and recently I bought one from a house clearance. The machine was brand new, still had shipping brackets in place. My other half re arrange the laundry room so it would fit, we converted the garage into a laundry room and gym.
Prior to buying my LG washers I nearly bought a Speed Queen top loader. In the UK they are commercial machines used for hotels , guest houses.
More videos please.
Regards.
Paul
While I'm a big fan of Speed Queen, they really missed the mark with their "spray rinse" design. As it appears that the tub leans to the right, the spray from the fill flume never comes into contact with the clothes, only the bottom of the tub. I'm thinking a redesign is in order. The flume should be directly mounted to the tub as opposed to the cabinet.
Absolutely. It really looks like the spray would only hit the bottom of the tub and maybe half way up the tub. The spray would be okay if the machine did a neutral drain with the clothes laying on the bottom of the tub before spinning. I would have liked to see the load go through a deep rinse to see whether there were still suds left.
Could you start the cycle on Heavy Duty for example to just fill the tub and then switch to Normal Eco to get the rinse sequence? This would give you the option to fiddle around with the rinsing sequence of the Normal Eco cycle with pretty much any load.
Shower Rinsing
F&P's shower rinse option is much more effective. The fill flume nozzle has perforations which aim the spray in various directions, some of which are toward the basket and top of the clothes pack. Rotation drops to 25 RPM during saturation sprays so the load is thoroughly soaked. The volume of water and number of saturations varies per the load size. I ran a large load of jeans a couple weeks ago using the shower rinse option, there were three saturation spray periods.
F&P's shower rinse option is much more effective. The fill flume nozzle has perforations which aim the spray in various directions, some of which are toward the basket and top of the clothes pack. Rotation drops to 25 RPM during saturation sprays so the load is thoroughly soaked. The volume of water and number of saturations varies per the load size. I ran a large load of jeans a couple weeks ago using the shower rinse option, there were three saturation spray periods.
gusherb
Well-known member
While starting a load I tried to change it from Heavy Duty to Normal Eco while it was still filling and it wouldn't let me. They expect you to have the detergent and load in before even thinking about turning the machine on, and then just walking away from it. The only thing it would let me change during the wash portion of the cycle is turning on the extra rinse option.
One thing I do like is you don't have to start a cycle and let it run through for it to remember your settings, you can set it, walk away and go to turn it on later and those settings will still be there. (good if you wanna leave it a certain way for someone else who may not know WTH they're doing)
I agree, the new fill flume design doesn't do that great a job at the spray rinse. I actually think the old design was better, because while it was spinning the water would wrap around the agitator and hit all the clothes from top to bottom as large droplets.
I honestly don't think Alliance designed the NE option for anything but to satisfy DOE regulations and figure that only novices will use it, the kind that wouldn't notice the poor effectiveness anyway. (and they assume that those people wouldn't buy a SQ in the first place) I'm guessing.
One thing I do like is you don't have to start a cycle and let it run through for it to remember your settings, you can set it, walk away and go to turn it on later and those settings will still be there. (good if you wanna leave it a certain way for someone else who may not know WTH they're doing)
I agree, the new fill flume design doesn't do that great a job at the spray rinse. I actually think the old design was better, because while it was spinning the water would wrap around the agitator and hit all the clothes from top to bottom as large droplets.
I honestly don't think Alliance designed the NE option for anything but to satisfy DOE regulations and figure that only novices will use it, the kind that wouldn't notice the poor effectiveness anyway. (and they assume that those people wouldn't buy a SQ in the first place) I'm guessing.
I had a Frigidaire Immersion Care washer and the spray rinses looked far more effective.
SQ should switch to a neutral drain, spin the tub very slowly during the spray, ramp it up to around 150 rpm to draw the water out of the clothes, then repeat.
The spin-drain, with the clothes already plastered to the side of the tub during the spray rinses, is the problem.
SQ should switch to a neutral drain, spin the tub very slowly during the spray, ramp it up to around 150 rpm to draw the water out of the clothes, then repeat.
The spin-drain, with the clothes already plastered to the side of the tub during the spray rinses, is the problem.
Fail Speed Queen project
The rinse spray of Speed Queen is very inefficient. My LG Waveforce is also very efficient to rinse the clothes with spray. I can not stop seeing a lazy work on the project this rinse in SQ, I feel that this brand wants to be eternally antiquated conservatives for consumers who like to spend a river of water to wash a single load of laundry.
The rinse spray of Speed Queen is very inefficient. My LG Waveforce is also very efficient to rinse the clothes with spray. I can not stop seeing a lazy work on the project this rinse in SQ, I feel that this brand wants to be eternally antiquated conservatives for consumers who like to spend a river of water to wash a single load of laundry.
Spin Rinse Systems In Top Load Washers
I will reserve judgement on SQs new spin rinse system till I have more experience with it, but as I have said before it is a shame WP tied up the patents on the recirculated spin rinse system they used on their Resource Saver TL washers they made in the late 90s. The RS rinse system was by far the most effective rinsing I have ever seen in TL washer, I would say it was nearly as effective as TWO DEEP RINSES while only using about 1/4 of the water of TDRs. F&Ps spray rinse is also fairly effective but does not adjust for load size like WPs rinse system and wastes more water.
Eugene you are correct that SQ should go to Neutral Drain, they also need larger [ and more ] holes in the bottom of heir tub in TL washers. Because of the lack of holes in the basket even if the spray rinse missises the clothing on the sides of the tub the water will mostly spin up through the clothing anyway, possible problem is the sediment in the bottom of the wash basket will also wash up and be deposited in the clean laundry.
PS Scott, you are going to love your new SQ Front Load Washer, there is no better, more durable washer built for home use, the SQ FL washer is the real deal, it is literately the last washer most Americans will need if you are over 35 or 40 years old.
I will reserve judgement on SQs new spin rinse system till I have more experience with it, but as I have said before it is a shame WP tied up the patents on the recirculated spin rinse system they used on their Resource Saver TL washers they made in the late 90s. The RS rinse system was by far the most effective rinsing I have ever seen in TL washer, I would say it was nearly as effective as TWO DEEP RINSES while only using about 1/4 of the water of TDRs. F&Ps spray rinse is also fairly effective but does not adjust for load size like WPs rinse system and wastes more water.
Eugene you are correct that SQ should go to Neutral Drain, they also need larger [ and more ] holes in the bottom of heir tub in TL washers. Because of the lack of holes in the basket even if the spray rinse missises the clothing on the sides of the tub the water will mostly spin up through the clothing anyway, possible problem is the sediment in the bottom of the wash basket will also wash up and be deposited in the clean laundry.
PS Scott, you are going to love your new SQ Front Load Washer, there is no better, more durable washer built for home use, the SQ FL washer is the real deal, it is literately the last washer most Americans will need if you are over 35 or 40 years old.
gusherb
Well-known member
So I'm looking to eventually get the matching Speed Queen dryer, the only way to vent out of the closet is down through the floor with the dryer in a bottom-center venting configuration. Our Raytheon Amana dryer had the knockout in the cabinet for this and was configured that way, do the new SQ's still have that configuration option?
And if i decide instead to get a Kenmore/Whirlpool dryer with the lint filter on the top (I love the drying results from those, a good bit better then the SQ IMO) are they configurable for bottom-center venting too?
And if i decide instead to get a Kenmore/Whirlpool dryer with the lint filter on the top (I love the drying results from those, a good bit better then the SQ IMO) are they configurable for bottom-center venting too?
murando531
Well-known member
I love F&P's spray rinses, and I was disappointed to learn that the Oasis doesn't perform the same way, at least not in the recent models. The F&P's have that beautiful spray pattern from the flume, and a few jets even hit the top rim of the tub to rinse down any residue, I assume. What I think makes it effective are the quick spins it does between the sprays. The Bravos will drizzle water, which isn't as broad reaching, for a few seconds, then simply drain for a few secs, and repeat. Then it will proceed to the deeper fill if selected.
With the default "water save spray rinse" it will use the recirculator, but not for very long. I would only trust it with very lightly soiled loads anyway, because I'd need to use the minimal amount of detergent for the spray rinse to be effective.
With the default "water save spray rinse" it will use the recirculator, but not for very long. I would only trust it with very lightly soiled loads anyway, because I'd need to use the minimal amount of detergent for the spray rinse to be effective.
Slowing down for a spin rinse is not something I'm a fan of.
Our previous Simpson TL did this, as well as a very slow initial spin after pumping out, and pumping at a standstill for several minutes. It would slow down (slowly, without use of any tub brake), spray the water, which usually landed in the bottom of the tub, not on the clothes (unless you stopped and redistributed them), then faff around for another couple of minutes trying to get back into the spin routine.
The last 3-4 rinses it actually powered up very quickly, and made a nice sound. But the first 3-4 were "tedious," to say the least.
We ended up just defaulting to a single deep rinse, instead of the 7-sprays programme it had. The deep rinse was far more effective, even if it did use more water.
Our previous Simpson TL did this, as well as a very slow initial spin after pumping out, and pumping at a standstill for several minutes. It would slow down (slowly, without use of any tub brake), spray the water, which usually landed in the bottom of the tub, not on the clothes (unless you stopped and redistributed them), then faff around for another couple of minutes trying to get back into the spin routine.
The last 3-4 rinses it actually powered up very quickly, and made a nice sound. But the first 3-4 were "tedious," to say the least.
We ended up just defaulting to a single deep rinse, instead of the 7-sprays programme it had. The deep rinse was far more effective, even if it did use more water.
mrb627
Well-known member
Normal ECO
In my mind, this program is for lightly soiled cotton garment that may simply need a freshening up rather than a full blown wash and rinse. Using an HE detergent in this cycle is going to seriously dilute it down from the start. Not leaving much to be rinsed out in the end.
Still, I am also curious as to what a second rinse added to this program would reveal in sudsiness. It might also be interesting to run a cycle at each load setting to see if the spray sessions vary in any way. Also interesting to note, the first spray rinse is included as part of the end of the wash phase. It isn't until the first spin pause that we advance into the rinse session.
Additionally, in warmer climates, the ECO wash temp would be warmer than in Northern Wintery conditions.
Malcolm
In my mind, this program is for lightly soiled cotton garment that may simply need a freshening up rather than a full blown wash and rinse. Using an HE detergent in this cycle is going to seriously dilute it down from the start. Not leaving much to be rinsed out in the end.
Still, I am also curious as to what a second rinse added to this program would reveal in sudsiness. It might also be interesting to run a cycle at each load setting to see if the spray sessions vary in any way. Also interesting to note, the first spray rinse is included as part of the end of the wash phase. It isn't until the first spin pause that we advance into the rinse session.
Additionally, in warmer climates, the ECO wash temp would be warmer than in Northern Wintery conditions.
Malcolm
Whirlpools resource saver spin rinse system
On whirlpool system they used six recirculated spray rinses all at the highest spin speed.
It is always hard to test rinsing effectiveness but I know you could use a cup of liquid chlorine bleach and could smell nothing at the end of the cycle so I think it was pretty effective,definitely more effective than one deep rinse that's for sure.
On whirlpool system they used six recirculated spray rinses all at the highest spin speed.
It is always hard to test rinsing effectiveness but I know you could use a cup of liquid chlorine bleach and could smell nothing at the end of the cycle so I think it was pretty effective,definitely more effective than one deep rinse that's for sure.
stchuck
Well-known member
I am hoping the front load set is the last one I ever need
I have gone through quite a few sets of front load washers, the best so far being an Electrolux set but there are facets of those machines that I am less than impressed with. I do like that you can choose to add extra water. My only concern the new set ( and not speed queen in general but any manufacturer) is that they will use such little water. I miss the good ol' days when water would slosh around in a front load machine.
Since I am quite a bit past 35 or 40, with a little luck these will take me through until I can no longer remember how to actually use them
I have gone through quite a few sets of front load washers, the best so far being an Electrolux set but there are facets of those machines that I am less than impressed with. I do like that you can choose to add extra water. My only concern the new set ( and not speed queen in general but any manufacturer) is that they will use such little water. I miss the good ol' days when water would slosh around in a front load machine.
Since I am quite a bit past 35 or 40, with a little luck these will take me through until I can no longer remember how to actually use them
mrb627
Well-known member
Spray - Rinse
I have watched the Normal-ECO video a few times now. I think that if they modified the fill flume and put it back on the tub ring/splash guard. Maybe two ports and the 10 and 2 o'clock positions spraying in a fan pattern it might be better.
It would also not bother me to have the aerated fill back either
Malcolm
I have watched the Normal-ECO video a few times now. I think that if they modified the fill flume and put it back on the tub ring/splash guard. Maybe two ports and the 10 and 2 o'clock positions spraying in a fan pattern it might be better.
It would also not bother me to have the aerated fill back either
Malcolm
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